GDT: Kevyn Adams Press Conference -- The "Disconnect" Explained--11:00 am

[klos1963]

23 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

But to be completely objective on Eichel, he never put up 100 points here and he wasn't an impact at all for the teams ability to move towards competitive hockey for a run at the playoffs in any event. I weigh both the pros and cons of trading him, and as of right now, today, I see no immediate concerns on the cons of trading him. He wasn't a difference maker here, we can be no worse off than we are now. But I also understand the natural reflex to look at his talents and say, hey, that guy can be one of the main factors to turning this around. The fact is, he hasn't been for 6 years now, I don't see it changing significant enough to change my mind either.

I'm in the trade him camp, same with Sam and Risto. It didn't work with these guys, and whether it's agreed or not, Stanley Cup winning Kyven Adams is correct, players need to want to be here. Granato has the kids playing hungry, I haven't seen that very often, or at least with any consistency from Jack, Sam or Risto to be honest, and we have hundreds of losses in those 6 years as solid evidence backing that.

Just my 2 cents.

I don't think it's accurate to say he wasn't an impact player.  He was the main reason we won any of the games we did win. It's not his fault we traded ROR, it's not his fault we fired GM's and coaches every 2 years. Trade the bad players, keep the good ones.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, klos1963 said:

I don't think it's accurate to say he wasn't an impact player.  He was the main reason we won any of the games we did win. It's not his fault we traded ROR, it's not his fault we fired GM's and coaches every 2 years. Trade the bad players, keep the good ones.

It's bad logic. 

By the same logic we can trade every single player off the roster right now and have no one and be no worse off 

It's basically saying, we haven't achieved our goal so everything we have is useless. 

[Scottysabres]

Just now, Thorny said:

So a boat without a motor is no closer to a sailing the seas than nothing?

I don't understand where the nothing comes from. Certainly we are going to get something in return for him in a trade, no?

Are you implying Botterill is still the GM and we are going to get ROR'd all over again? Because I don't see Kyven Adams as Jason Botterill, at least, not yet.

[Curt]

9 minutes ago, Weave said:

That part about "playing for something bigger than yourself" is interesting.  Whether it was or not, it feels directed at Jack.  I wouldn't be surprised if Risto might have been a target.  Skinner HAD to be a target there as well.

I'm not sure we lose Sam this offseason, but I am fairly sure Jack and Risto are gone.  And Skinner would be if a sucker could be found.

Adams’ comments about that certainly contrast with Risto’s answer about whether he wants a trade, “I’m good with whatever, shrug.”

Reinhart seems to be heading straight towards UFA, express train.  If Sam says he wants a one year contract or is going to arbitration, I just think you need to move him, because he has one foot out the door already.

Jack is very tricky.  He is pissed but also under contract for a long time.  Can they mend the relationship?  I don’t think so, but we’ll see.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

I don't understand where the nothing comes from. Certainly we are going to get something in return for him in a trade, no?

Are you implying Botterill is still the GM and we are going to get ROR'd all over again? Because I don't see Kyven Adams as Jason Botterill, at least, not yet.

You said we cannot be worse off by trading him. So, if we traded him for Sean Monahan straight up, we couldn't possibly be worse. Does that seem right? 

If we add enough players to Sean to become a playoff team, we'd have been a better playoff team had we kept Jack. It doesn't make sense to say we "can't be worse off". It's definitely possible. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Thorny

[Scottysabres]

2 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

I don't think it's accurate to say he wasn't an impact player.  He was the main reason we won any of the games we did win. It's not his fault we traded ROR, it's not his fault we fired GM's and coaches every 2 years. Trade the bad players, keep the good ones.

Oh, I'm not putting blame on him, I'm merely pointing out that he was, in point of fact, a non factor impact wise to a competitive Sabres team. And, as we are all well aware, the 6 seasons since he's been here team record bares this out.

[klos1963]

Just now, Scottysabres said:

Oh, I'm not putting blame on him, I'm merely pointing out that he was, in point of fact, a non factor impact wise to a competitive Sabres team. And, as we are all well aware, the 6 seasons since he's been here team record bares this out.

I understand, but I still disagree. To say he was a non factor is just wrong. He played very well, sometimes at an elite level. The team lost despite his excellent play.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

Oh, I'm not putting blame on him, I'm merely pointing out that he was, in point of fact, a non factor impact wise to a competitive Sabres team. And, as we are all well aware, the 6 seasons since he's been here team record bares this out.

This isn't accurate.

We know that we weren't a competitive team with Jack. We do not know that Jack wasn't doing his part in aiding to competitiveness. 

You could trade McDavid off the Oilers because they didn't make the playoffs using this same logic. it's wonky. 

[Scottysabres]

Just now, Thorny said:

You said we cannot be worse off by trading him. So, if we traded him for Sean Monahan straight up, we couldn't possibly be worse. Does that seem right?

Thorny, come on man. You see the freaking season ending records these past 6 seasons Eichel has been here. You aren't honestly going to sit here and try and tell me with him on the roster our situation has improved, at all? The fact is, we've had two finishes dead last in the past 3 years now. We aren't going anywhere with him in the line up that we couldn't go to without him in the line up.

I get it, he's got skills, but I'm not one to fawn over those skills. He can go, and I wouldn't bat an eye, same with Samson, same with Risto. We literally finished dead last this year, dead last, and we did it 3 years ago to. So yea, they can mosey on down the road, that is my mind set on the situation.

[klos1963]

2 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Thorny, come on man. You see the freaking season ending records these past 6 seasons Eichel has been here. You aren't honestly going to sit here and try and tell me with him on the roster our situation has improved, at all? The fact is, we've had two finishes dead last in the past 3 years now. We aren't going anywhere with him in the line up that we couldn't go to without him in the line up.

I get it, he's got skills, but I'm not one to fawn over those skills. He can go, and I wouldn't bat an eye, same with Samson, same with Risto. We literally finished dead last this year, dead last, and we did it 3 years ago to. So yea, they can mosey on down the road, that is my mind set on the situation.

Just look at the goalies we've had. No team could win with them.

[Zamboni]

5 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Thorny, come on man. You see the freaking season ending records these past 6 seasons Eichel has been here. You aren't honestly going to sit here and try and tell me with him on the roster our situation has improved, at all? The fact is, we've had two finishes dead last in the past 3 years now. We aren't going anywhere with him in the line up that we couldn't go to without him in the line up.

I get it, he's got skills, but I'm not one to fawn over those skills. He can go, and I wouldn't bat an eye, same with Samson, same with Risto. We literally finished dead last this year, dead last, and we did it 3 years ago to. So yea, they can mosey on down the road, that is my mind set on the situation.

That’s right! We had terrific coaches and GM’s the past few years. Screw those guys if they didn’t win with the coaches and GM’s they had running things….

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Thorny, come on man. You see the freaking season ending records these past 6 seasons Eichel has been here. You aren't honestly going to sit here and try and tell me with him on the roster our situation has improved, at all? The fact is, we've had two finishes dead last in the past 3 years now. We aren't going anywhere with him in the line up that we couldn't go to without him in the line up.

I get it, he's got skills, but I'm not one to fawn over those skills. He can go, and I wouldn't bat an eye, same with Samson, same with Risto. We literally finished dead last this year, dead last, and we did it 3 years ago to. So yea, they can mosey on down the road, that is my mind set on the situation.

And the Lions were god awful with Barry Sanders. Not winning with a player doesn't mean you can't win that player. Could they have won with Barry? Because they didn't, was Barry a non-factor in competitiveness? I'm not arguing the situation improved with Jack, I'm saying that it's reasonable, if not likely, that the reason we didn't win has nothing to do with him. Was he not good enough to play top 6 on a playoff team? The team's results are a reflection of ALL it's parts, not a commentary on Jack's value in isolation.

It comes down to return if we trade him. If you think he's an absolute cancer, and that we will benefit from moving him or it offsets his talent, fine - but that's another argument. To say we couldn't possibly be worse off by moving him, you'd have to know that to a certainty. Otherwise, it's simply value in, value out. However you define his value. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Thorny

[Scottysabres]

2 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

That’s right! We had terrific coaches and GM’s the past few years. Screw those guys if they didn’t win with the coaches and GM’s they had running things….

Yes, I'm full aware of the overall mess the team has been, from top to bottom.

 

[#freejame]

re: @Thorny's poll

I wouldn't be happier per se if we trade Eichel, but I am resigned to it and feel like we can come out better off because of it in the long run. 

[Scottysabres]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

And the Lions were god awful with Barry Sanders. Not winning with a player doesn't mean you can't win that player. Could they have won with Barry? Because they didn't, was Barry a non-factor in competitiveness? I'm not arguing the situation improved with Jack, I'm saying that it's reasonable, if not likely, that the reason we didn't win has nothing to do with him. Was he not good enough to play top 6 on a playoff team? The team's results are a reflection of ALL it's parts, not a commentary on Jack's value in isolation.

It comes down to return if we trade him. If you think he's an absolute cancer, and that we will benefit from moving him or it offsets his talent, fine - but that's another argument. To say we couldn't possibly we worse off by moving him, you'd have to know that to a certainty. 

I'm not advocating moving him because he is the cruces of the problem, I am all for moving him for several factors, but I wouldn't hesitate to move him.

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, #freejame said:

re: @Thorny's poll

I wouldn't be happier per se if we trade Eichel, but I am resigned to it and feel like we can come out better off because of it in the long run. 

I deleted it just now, sorry. I don't think it was very well done. Too clumsy 

[JoeSchmoe]

24 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Thorny, come on man. You see the freaking season ending records these past 6 seasons Eichel has been here. You aren't honestly going to sit here and try and tell me with him on the roster our situation has improved, at all? The fact is, we've had two finishes dead last in the past 3 years now. We aren't going anywhere with him in the line up that we couldn't go to without him in the line up.

I get it, he's got skills, but I'm not one to fawn over those skills. He can go, and I wouldn't bat an eye, same with Samson, same with Risto. We literally finished dead last this year, dead last, and we did it 3 years ago to. So yea, they can mosey on down the road, that is my mind set on the situation.

I think what everyone is trying to say to you, is its not Eichel's fault we keep finishing last. Its:

Eakin, Okposo, Sobotka, Hutton, Irwin, Vesey, Bogosian, Frolik, Johannsen, Johannsen, Miller, Beaulieu, Bergland, Hunwick, Tennyson, Antipin, Fedun, Nolan, Pouliot, Deslauriers, Falk, Grant, Kulikov, Moulson, Legwand, Colioacovo's fault, among many others.

Worse yet, we keep playing many of these guys even when its readily apparent that they suck. To use the baseball term... almost every one of them played well below replacement level, yet we kept throwing then out there.

Granato, is the first coach we've had that looks like he's serious about sitting the dead weight, and he said as much today.

Eichel just happens to be the unlucky face of the team that drafts, trades for, and plays these really bad players.

[Scottysabres]

3 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I think what everyone is trying to say to you, is its not Eichel's fault we keep finishing last. Its:

Eakin, Okposo, Sobotka, Hutton, Irwin, Vesey, Bogosian, Frolik, Johannsen, Johannsen, Miller, Beaulieu, Bergland, Hunwick, Tennyson, Antipin, Fedun, Nolan, Pouliot, Deslauriers, Falk, Grant, Kulikov, Moulson, Legwand, Colioacovo's fault, among many others.

Worse yet, we keep playing many of these guys even when its readily apparent that they suck. To use the baseball term... almost every one of them played well below replacement level, yet we kept throwing then out there.

Granato, is the first coach we've had that looks like he's serious about sitting the dead weight, and he said as much today.

Eichel just happens to be the unlucky face of the team that drafts, trades for, and plays these really bad players.

I know, but every player shares the responsibility and culpability. It's not so hard to trade any one of these players if the mind is released from the bondage of what it took to garner them. Yes, we suffered to get them, but the suffering hasn't ended, it's maintained the same level for years now. If moving them boosts the team, like Eisenhower on the evening of June 3rd, 1944 said, "GO"!

[pi2000]

Let's not lose sight that they were in the toughest 8 team league in the world.

This was not a normal season.  I don't believe for a second they would've finished last in a normal full season.

That said, the worst thing they could do is blow it all up because OMG LaSt PLaCE AGAin!

I, for one, am optimistic about next season.    Playing BOS, WSH, PIT, etc seemingly every other game was great for their development.   

It's always darkest before the dawn.

[JoeSchmoe]

3 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

I know, but every player shares the responsibility and culpability. It's not so hard to trade any one of these players if the mind is released from the bondage of what it took to garner them. Yes, we suffered to get them, but the suffering hasn't ended, it's maintained the same level for years now. If moving them boosts the team, like Eisenhower on the evening of June 3rd, 1944 said, "GO"!

Eichel was the reason we still won games with these trainwreck players. Trading him is only part of the solution if we get a good deal. 

[Scottysabres]

Just now, JoeSchmoe said:

Eichel was the reason we still won games with these trainwreck players. Trading him is only part of the solution if we get a good deal. 

Fully agree.

[Marvin]

43 minutes ago, Thorny said:

And the Lions were god awful with Barry Sanders. Not winning with a player doesn't mean you can't win that player. Could they have won with Barry? Because they didn't, was Barry a non-factor in competitiveness? I'm not arguing the situation improved with Jack, I'm saying that it's reasonable, if not likely, that the reason we didn't win has nothing to do with him. Was he not good enough to play top 6 on a playoff team? The team's results are a reflection of ALL it's parts, not a commentary on Jack's value in isolation.

It comes down to return if we trade him. If you think he's an absolute cancer, and that we will benefit from moving him or it offsets his talent, fine - but that's another argument. To say we couldn't possibly be worse off by moving him, you'd have to know that to a certainty. Otherwise, it's simply value in, value out. However you define his value. 

I so want to follow-up with this because the point needs to be re-inforced.  I saw those Lions a lot when at Michigan State.  He had to perform miracles to generate 1 yard gains the line was so bad.

Eichel has been like that here.  And we have been in as much disarray as those Lions were.

 

[nfreeman]

Barry Sanders was one of the most exciting players I’ve seen in any sport.  

[Doohickie]

This belongs on the forum somewhere.  It could go into any number of threads.

[JoeSchmoe]

Its funny that they decided to run Eichel's locker room clean-up interview right after his exit interview. 

My kids play rep hockey, and there's always been a strict 24 hour rule where you can't talk to the coach until a full day after the issue happens. This way cooler heads usually prevail.

We got Jack pretty much right after he was talking to Adams. For sure that set the stage for what we got on Monday.