Taro T Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 23 minutes ago, Archie Lee said: I think this is a good reminder that some teams, and quite possibly the Sabres, will have internal rankings that are very different than any so called consensus or consolidated ranking. My tendency is to watch the draft and hope a highly ranked player falls to us (ie: Rossi). What is at least as likely is the Sabres will think highly of a lower ranked player and we will be initially perturbed by who we select. Perturbed is probably a good choice of word there because with it being the 3rd draft Adams has run we now know what he values in a player and should expect him to select those with the characteristics he values. Nobody is going to be irate at who the Sabres come away with (well almost nobody but the Liger 😉 ) but there will likely be some here frustrated at them passing on a guy that's fallen to them that wasn't expected to be there. But would be surprised if the bemoaning of it rises to ire. There are some guys they simply aren't going to draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 I listened to a podcast yesterday from Steve Kournianos (Draft Analyst) which focused on Russian prospects. He says this is the best group of Russians he has seen in a long time. The Dmen and wingers are especially solid. The political issues around Russia has meant less scouting and there are some teams who may avoid Russians altogether. This guy thinks those kids are undervalued and that there are some solid NHLers who will get passed over and picked late. The potential is there for some bargains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 17 minutes ago, French Collection said: I listened to a podcast yesterday from Steve Kournianos (Draft Analyst) which focused on Russian prospects. He says this is the best group of Russians he has seen in a long time. The Dmen and wingers are especially solid. The political issues around Russia has meant less scouting and there are some teams who may avoid Russians altogether. This guy thinks those kids are undervalued and that there are some solid NHLers who will get passed over and picked late. The potential is there for some bargains. I feel the same way about there being the possibility for some great value from drafting Russians this year. Kournianos is a good listen sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Archie Lee said: I think this is a good reminder that some teams, and quite possibly the Sabres, will have internal rankings that are very different than any so called consensus or consolidated ranking. My tendency is to watch the draft and hope a highly ranked player falls to us (ie: Rossi). What is at least as likely is the Sabres will think highly of a lower ranked player and we will be initially perturbed by who we select. This 100 %. The issue comes less from the individual team and more misplaced faith that consensus means something. Brad Lambert at 10ish on some lists and 30ish on other doesn't make him a consensus 20ish pick, it means he could go anywhere from the early teens to into the 2nd depending on who else was available when the teams that like him pick. Same with guys who are perceived to be on the other end of that scale like, say, a Chesley or an McGroarty. 57 minutes ago, French Collection said: I listened to a podcast yesterday from Steve Kournianos (Draft Analyst) which focused on Russian prospects. He says this is the best group of Russians he has seen in a long time. The Dmen and wingers are especially solid. The political issues around Russia has meant less scouting and there are some teams who may avoid Russians altogether. This guy thinks those kids are undervalued and that there are some solid NHLers who will get passed over and picked late. The potential is there for some bargains. I think there is a good chance Yurov is probably going to be the best player available at 9 and teams will regret passing on him if he goes in the late teens or 20s. Edited June 21, 2022 by dudacek 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 Pittsburgh Hockey Now: “It’s shocking, if not a bit embarrassing. It has been seven years since the Penguins drafted an NHL regular. Yep, in 2015 the Penguins selected…Dominik Simon. The Penguins have whiffed in every draft since. That’s costing them a lot of salary cap space, too. Pittsburgh Penguins draft-day woes.” Just find the Pens draft list and don’t draft anyone they are interested in.😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, Flashsabre said: Pittsburgh Hockey Now: “It’s shocking, if not a bit embarrassing. It has been seven years since the Penguins drafted an NHL regular. Yep, in 2015 the Penguins selected…Dominik Simon. The Penguins have whiffed in every draft since. That’s costing them a lot of salary cap space, too. Pittsburgh Penguins draft-day woes.” Just find the Pens draft list and don’t draft anyone they are interested in.😛 That's pretty bad. But don't they usually trade away their 1st & 2nd rounder trying to keep Crosby's window open? Would be interested to know (but not enough to look it up 😉 ) how many picks they've traded away in that span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, Taro T said: That's pretty bad. But don't they usually trade away their 1st & 2nd rounder trying to keep Crosby's window open? Would be interested to know (but not enough to look it up 😉 ) how many picks they've traded away in that span. They have not picked many early picks for a long time. https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007475.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Archie Lee said: I think this is a good reminder that some teams, and quite possibly the Sabres, will have internal rankings that are very different than any so called consensus or consolidated ranking. My tendency is to watch the draft and hope a highly ranked player falls to us (ie: Rossi). What is at least as likely is the Sabres will think highly of a lower ranked player and we will be initially perturbed by who we select. And sometimes that works (Quinn) and sometimes it doesn’t (Rosen). The key is build a quality scouting department and trust them. This year that is truer then ever. After the clear top 5 anything can happen this year. Opinions vary so widely this season it’s startling. For example, I have Snuggerud in the mid 20’s on my consensus board, but he has rankings as high as 8th and as low as in the second round. Edited June 21, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, French Collection said: They have not picked many early picks for a long time. https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00007475.html 13 picks in the first three rounds since 2015. Two firsts since 2014. Edited June 21, 2022 by #freejame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 Just now, #freejame said: 13 picks in the first three rounds since 2015. No firsts since 2014 either. I guess it’s a price you pay for Cups and some playoff runs in the salary cap era. As some have hinted, watch them not re sign Malkin and Letang, trade Crosby for futures and tank to get Bedard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashsabre Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, French Collection said: I guess it’s a price you pay for Cups and some playoff runs in the salary cap era. As some have hinted, watch them not re sign Malkin and Letang, trade Crosby for futures and tank to get Bedard. Pitt: Mario, Jagr, Crosby, Malkin etc and Edmonton: Gretzky, Messier, Kurri, Coffey, McDavid, Draisaitl have capped out on generational and superstar players.😀 21 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: And sometimes that works (Quinn) and sometimes it doesn’t (Rosen). The key is build a quality scouting department and trust them. This year that is truer then ever. After the clear top 5 anything can happen this year. Opinions vary so widely this season it’s startling. For example, I have Snuggerud in the mid 20’s on my consensus board, but he has rankings as high as 8th and as low as in the second round. So Rosen is a bust already. Wow that was quick. Wonder why they signed him for Rochester if his career is basically over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Taro T said: Nobody is going to be irate at who the Sabres come away with (well almost nobody but the Liger 😉 ) 😂😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Lee Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said: And sometimes that works (Quinn) and sometimes it doesn’t (Rosen). The key is build a quality scouting department and trust them. This year that is truer then ever. After the clear top 5 anything can happen this year. Opinions vary so widely this season it’s startling. For example, I have Snuggerud in the mid 20’s on my consensus board, but he has rankings as high as 8th and as low as in the second round. I agree with your overall sentiment, but it is too early to say that the Rosen selection didn't work or, for that matter, that the Quinn one did. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: And sometimes that works (Quinn) and sometimes it doesn’t (Rosen). The key is build a quality scouting department and trust them. This year that is truer then ever. After the clear top 5 anything can happen this year. Opinions vary so widely this season it’s startling. For example, I have Snuggerud in the mid 20’s on my consensus board, but he has rankings as high as 8th and as low as in the second round. Why are you so quick to make a judgment on Rosen? I'm not saying you are right or wrong. At this point I simply don't know if he was a good pick or not. It just seems that you are prematurely making a judgment on Rosen. It might be wiser to wait a little longer to see how he plays and develops while he is in North America. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 Take his model how you want. I think it has several flaws but gives you a general idea of production related equivalents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, Archie Lee said: I agree with your overall sentiment, but it is too early to say that the Rosen selection didn't work or, for that matter, that the Quinn one did. Isn't that the truth. Quinn won AHL Rookie of the Year... so did previous Sabres Mika Noronen, Nathan Gerbe, and Tyler Ennis. Good for the Amerks and Pirates and all three reached the NHL. If any of them were top-10 picks I think they'd be quite poorly regarded. Their overall value to the Sabres is debatable. Noronen became a pick (Enroth). Gerbe was waived and then given a compliance buyout. Ennis (+ Foligno, 3rd) was traded Scandella, soon-to-retire Pominville, and a 4th (LHD Cronholm - never signed). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Take his model how you want. I think it has several flaws but gives you a general idea of production related equivalents. ####ing LOVE it. (Look who slots in at 9.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Taro T said: ####ing LOVE it. (Look who slots in at 9.) And 16. I'd take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 Slafkovsky & Ostlund falling to the Sabres too. Like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Take his model how you want. I think it has several flaws but gives you a general idea of production related equivalents. Loves my boy Yurov. My boys Kasper, Ohgren and Gauthier, not so much. But yeah, I’ll take it 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted June 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 36 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Take his model how you want. I think it has several flaws but gives you a general idea of production related equivalents. Lost all credibility with those ranking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 56 minutes ago, Taro T said: Slafkovsky & Ostlund falling to the Sabres too. Like it. 41 minutes ago, dudacek said: Loves my boy Yurov. My boys Kasper, Ohgren and Gauthier, not so much. But yeah, I’ll take it 😄 29 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: Lost all credibility with those ranking It's not a mock so there isn't any "falling" It isn't a custom ranking, it is just what his model spit out based on how the production and league adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) For the record I think that the ranking Bader's model spit out isn't great. For example Korchinski being ranked over Mintyukov doesn't make much sense when you consider that Korchinski played on a team that didn't suck and Mintyukov lead his team in points. Slafskovsky interestingly should probably be lower than where he sits in most public rankings. There is lots of statistical evidence that his performance was bolstered by a higher than normal sh% and that his international experience might be more of an outlier than the norm you can expect in the NHL. That's all I have for today. Cheers. Edited June 21, 2022 by LGR4GM clarity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: It's not a mock so there isn't any "falling" It isn't a custom ranking, it is just what his model spit out based on how the production and league adjustments. Whatevs. It's another random guy's ranking and if it has Jiricek ####ty enough to be the guy that should be available when the Sabres are on the board, sweet. Not expecting that to happen, but would be ecstatic if it happened as it would likely set the Sabres D for 45 minutes/game for the better part of a decade. But at the end of the day, whether it's a mock or a ranking or a customized ranking based upon individual teams needs or a customized ranking based upon a super secret highly complex algorithm developed after years of painstaking research, it really means jack but is something to discuss as the calendar rolls into summer and there are pretty much no sports after this week that are "must see" events. (Can watch a fair amount of summer sports, but nothing's getting DVR'd to watch sometime later. YMMV) 🍺 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 21, 2022 Report Share Posted June 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Flashsabre said: Pittsburgh Hockey Now: “It’s shocking, if not a bit embarrassing. It has been seven years since the Penguins drafted an NHL regular. Yep, in 2015 the Penguins selected…Dominik Simon. The Penguins have whiffed in every draft since. That’s costing them a lot of salary cap space, too. Pittsburgh Penguins draft-day woes.” Just find the Pens draft list and don’t draft anyone they are interested in.😛 Lance Lysowski mentioned on the Maintenance Day Podcast that’s one of the reasons why Sam Ventura left Pittsburgh for Buffalo was the chance to be more involved in Draft Decision Making 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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