2022 NHL Draft Rankings

[Buffalonill]

10 hours ago, Hoss said:

You didn't answer a damn thing. You bolded the question and then avoided it. The question asked for examples of when it blew up in our face.

For the record, it's correct that avoiding a prospect because of size is a great way to fail at drafting ... but you still didn't answer the question.

I just said gm's and  Scouts

[Curt]

Just now, Buffalonill said:

I just said gm's and  Scouts

The question was, what prospects did the scouts miss on because they were too concerned about size?

It wasn’t, who missed on prospects because of size?  Yeah, we know it was NHL scouts.

[Buffalonill]

55 minutes ago, Curt said:

The question was, what prospects did the scouts miss on because they were too concerned about size?

It wasn’t, who missed on prospects because of size?  Yeah, we know it was NHL scouts.

brayden point, debrincat, arvidsson, marco rossi and now Caufield

[Hoss]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Alex Debrincat was selected at pick #39 in 2016. We had 2 chances to take him and we skipped so we could draft Nylander and Asplund. 

I think Boston drafted Senyshyn over Barzal because at the time Barzal was listed at 5'11" 

Logan Stanely was a first round pick because he is big. Also from the 2016 draft class and obviously a Winnipeg pick but we see examples around the league where teams have prioritized size over talent.

Rossi falling to 9th in 2020. We are lucky because Quinn is still a good player but other teams will not be so lucky. 

Not to be rude, but I wasn’t asking you. This also still doesn’t answer the initial question which was specific to the Sabres (I know you mention DeBrincat but he wasn’t a top ten pick and Asplund isn’t exactly Andre the Giant).

I’m skeptical size is more of a factor than it needs to be in drafting decisions.

26 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

brayden point, debrincat, arvidsson, marco rossi and now Caufield

Where is the proof these guys were drafted lower purely because of size and that we were specifically the team that didn’t draft them because of size?

I could also list a random number of players drafted late who found success but happen to be tall.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Hoss

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

Not to be rude, but I wasn’t asking you. This also still doesn’t answer the initial question which was specific to the Sabres (I know you mention DeBrincat but he wasn’t a top ten pick and Asplund isn’t exactly Andre the Giant).

I’m skeptical size is more of a factor than it needs to be in drafting decisions.

Where is the proof these guys were drafted lower purely because of size and that we were specifically the team that didn’t draft them because of size?

I could also list a random number of players drafted late who found success but happen to be tall.

Come on now, this isn't a fair question and I think you know that. We couldn't prove this because we aren't in the draft rooms of these teams. 

I think arguing size was not a contributing factor to where they were drafted is crazy considering we again have a player like Logan Stanley who wasn't even that good in juniors getting drafted in the first. Size is a contributing factor IMPO. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by LGR4GM

[dudacek]

I wonder how many people get overdrafted because of their skating, or their skill, like Alex Nylander.

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I wonder how many people get overdrafted because of their skating, or their skill, like Alex Nylander.

I think puck skills get overdrafted, so stickhandling and the such. Idk if skating does, maybe. 

[Curt]

The size argument is kind of tired, but I think there is a slightly more interesting conversation here.

Which player skills are overrated/underrated by scouts in the draft?

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Come on now, this isn't a fair question and I think you know that. We couldn't prove this because we aren't in the draft rooms of these teams. 

I think arguing size was not a contributing factor to where they were drafted is crazy considering we again have a player like Logan Stanley who wasn't even that good in juniors getting drafted in the first. Size is a contributing factor IMPO. 

I never argued it wasn’t, for the record. I was asking Nill because he wasn’t answering the question asked.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

The size argument is kind of tired, but I think there is a slightly more interesting conversation here.

Which player skills are overrated/underrated by scouts in the draft?

That is interesting... hmm. I'll need to think honestly. 

[sabresparaavida]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

The size argument is kind of tired, but I think there is a slightly more interesting conversation here.

Which player skills are overrated/underrated by scouts in the draft?

That’s honestly a pretty good question, I wonder how often it happens in analytically developed teams. I would think that’s something that would be considered by teams and maybe over time with more analytics it will balance out some. 

[Flashsabre]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

The size argument is kind of tired, but I think there is a slightly more interesting conversation here.

Which player skills are overrated/underrated by scouts in the draft?

A dman’s ability to play d. Everyone is a puck moving dman. If you ask every team in the league what they need they would all say a dman that is a rock in the defensive zone. It is never valued in dmen drafted early.

[French Collection]

36 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

A dman’s ability to play d. Everyone is a puck moving dman. If you ask every team in the league what they need they would all say a dman that is a rock in the defensive zone. It is never valued in dmen drafted early.

You’re right, most drafted Dmen were scoring points in junior and then accepted the role of third pairing or the PK stay at home type.

I don’t seem to see Brooks Orpik clones on scouts’ radars.

[Crusader1969]

12 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

The problem with Kemmel is his sh% is high, but his shot assists, controlled entries, and passing stats are all low. Basically he can be an offensive passenger with a good shot. That doesn't mean he is bad just you would want to be cautious because of this underlying factors. IT is why it is too early to really say much about guys. 

Again, not a bad play just needs some caution 

 

Sounds a little bit like the book on  Quinn in that he is a goal scorers but relies on people setting him up. Would you agree ?  Though watching Quinn with the Amerks, he seems like he can drive play and distribute pretty well

after the Amerks game.  I’m gonna see if I can find the US u18 game online from earlier today.  I’ve never seen Cooley. 

any RHD to watch on either Sweden or US? 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said:

Sounds a little bit like the book on  Quinn in that he is a goal scorers but relies on people setting him up. Would you agree ?  Though watching Quinn with the Amerks, he seems like he can drive play and distribute pretty well

after the Amerks game.  I’m gonna see if I can find the US u18 game online from earlier today.  I’ve never seen Cooley. 

any RHD to watch on either Sweden or US? 

Some people have this picture of Quinn. I’m not sure why.

It wasnt his game in his draft year and it’s not his game now.

He’s a well-rounded player, competent in all facets of the game, with a really good shot.

[Crusader1969]

12 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I will again recommend EP Rinkside (from elite prospects) for anyone interested in the draft. The content really ramps up after the u20s but they still have a draft notebook where they keep tabs on some of the guys. They also profiled Krebs and discussed his game after the trade. 

It is a great analysis of where Savoie is to date and shows that he has struggled a little this season. They note the weaknesses in his game right now and it is a great balanced approach. https://eprinkside.com/2021/11/06/scouts-notebook-owen-pickering-matthew-savoies-start-connor-bedards-shot

Ive tried to watch the Ice when I can this year.  He has an incredibly accurate shot.  Seen him score from insane angles a couple of times.  
If Sabres don’t get Wright , I really like Savoie 

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Some people have this picture of Quinn. I’m not sure why.

It wasnt his game in his draft year and it’s not his game now.

He’s a well-rounded player, competent in all facets of the game, with a really good shot.

My guess is that his analytics weren’t great coming into the draft.  I know the Scouching guy isn’t that high on him. His tracking had Rossi as a much better prospect   Though he admitted he hasn’t watched much AHL so far this season
 

I would add that Quinn is also a kid that works hard to get better.  

Edited November 11, 2021 by Crusader1969

[Curt]

28 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Sounds a little bit like the book on  Quinn in that he is a goal scorers but relies on people setting him up. Would you agree ?  Though watching Quinn with the Amerks, he seems like he can drive play and distribute pretty well

That was never the book on Quinn.  In junior he drove his line, he creates, he scores, he plays defense.

[Crusader1969]

Just now, Curt said:

That was never the book on Quinn.  In junior he drove his line, he creates, he scores, he plays defense.

Maybe we were reading different books ?  🤷‍♂️
Just trying to wrap my head around why many draft experts had Quinn ranked much lower than where the Sabres drafted him

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Maybe we were reading different books ?  🤷‍♂️
Just trying to wrap my head around why many draft experts had Quinn ranked much lower than where the Sabres drafted him

Everyone. Quinn was ranked 12-18 from what I remember.

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said:

Maybe we were reading different books ?  🤷‍♂️
Just trying to wrap my head around why many draft experts had Quinn ranked much lower than where the Sabres drafted him

Because there were lots of good players available, Quinn was old for his draft year, and he didn’t produce squat before his draft year.  So everyone is thinking, is this guy a one year wonder?

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Everyone. Quinn was ranked 12-18 from what I remember.

And yeah, he wasn’t ranked all that low.

[LGR4GM]

Matthew Savoie

 

[Crusader1969]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Matthew Savoie

 

Didn’t I just say he I had an accurate shot ? 😂😂.  Nice to be right once and awhile 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Maybe we were reading different books ?  🤷‍♂️
Just trying to wrap my head around why many draft experts had Quinn ranked much lower than where the Sabres drafted him

Partly because he didn’t enter the season high on many people’s radar and had a lot of ground to make up, partly because the season ended early before his trending up had peaked, particularly for the armchair scouts.

Also, it’s a misperception he was “much lower.” Bob McKenzie is your best insight into where NHL scouts had him ranked. He was 10TH on Bob’s list. He went 8th. Not a single professional commentator blinked at the pick.

This is a misperception brought on mostly by Sabres Twitter being so focused on centres, particularly Rossi, and not really having Quinn on their personal radar.

[LGR4GM]

14 minutes ago, Curt said:

Because there were lots of good players available, Quinn was old for his draft year, and he didn’t produce squat before his draft year.  So everyone is thinking, is this guy a one year wonder?

And yeah, he wasn’t ranked all that low.

I tried to find out and the highest Quinn was ranked and I find him ranked is 6th on https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-alexis-lafreniere-solidifies-status-as-hockey-s-top-prospect-1.1461675

and I know EP ranked him 16th because they still have his profile linked to his draft report.

Hockey Writers have him in the late teens https://thehockeywriters.com/revisiting-2020-nhl-draft-rankings/

Sportsnet has him 9th https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/sportsnets-2020-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-final-edition/

McKenzie has him 10th https://www.tsn.ca/bob-mckenzie-s-final-ranking-lafreniere-the-surest-thing-in-most-uncertain-draft-year-1.1488272

Pronman has him 16th https://theathletic.com/2085858/2020/09/29/2020-nhl-draft-board-corey-pronmans-final-top-131-prospects/

Dobber has him 21st https://dobberprospects.com/2020/09/30/dobberprospects-final-2020-nhl-draft-rankings/

Edited November 11, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Crusader1969]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I tried to find out and the highest Quinn was ranked and I find him ranked is 6th on https://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-alexis-lafreniere-solidifies-status-as-hockey-s-top-prospect-1.1461675

and I know EP ranked him 16th because they still have his profile linked to his draft report.

Hockey Writers have him in the late teens https://thehockeywriters.com/revisiting-2020-nhl-draft-rankings/

Sportsnet has him 9th https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/sportsnets-2020-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-final-edition/

McKenzie has him 10th https://www.tsn.ca/bob-mckenzie-s-final-ranking-lafreniere-the-surest-thing-in-most-uncertain-draft-year-1.1488272

Pronman has him 16th https://theathletic.com/2085858/2020/09/29/2020-nhl-draft-board-corey-pronmans-final-top-131-prospects/

Dobber has him 21st https://dobberprospects.com/2020/09/30/dobberprospects-final-2020-nhl-draft-rankings/

I looked at Scouching. (Think he is future considerations now)

He had Quinn at 22 and JJ at 23 

hence why he was still a little sceptical of Quinn on his live chat thing last week