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2021 "Not a Tank" Standings


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1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Not so sure about that.  He kept them dead last for large stretches, but they were always close to crawling out of last place (want to say they even were out of the basement for a while until the January to never remember) and didn't clinch it until the 2nd last game.  (Yes, trading away every useful goalie & dumping Stafford & Myers for Bogosian (often broken) & Kane (completely broken that year) (the rest of the trade wasn't critical to that season, so not including it) was blatant.)   But at least he always SAID he was trying to win games unlike Black who was downright giddy at the prospect of icing a horrible team.

IMHO, actions speak louder than words.  (Not that "I have dreams about McDavid" did not announce it any more loudly.)  XGMTM gets my contempt because he undermined the team at every turn by trading anyone playing well -- so obviously that players joked on the bench that if you were playing well, you were trying to get traded.

I personally think that the team played out of their heads in part because they used the negative motivation from management.  Ted Nolan was the perfect guy to turn that into something to drive them.  And Arturs Irbe worked magic with whomever XGMTM brought in.  The players, coaches, and normal fans were treated like crap and deserved better than learning how to habitually lose.

Edited by Marvin, Sabres Fan
Deleted something ill-tempered.
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1 hour ago, Taro T said:

No.  It's because Ted Black was openly saying, without SAYING, the Sabres were going to go HARD for McEichel.

No, it has nothing to do with the Sabres. The lottery has existed for a while now. Recent adjustments were made before the McEichel year. The most recent changes were likely made because of a mix of Buffalo and New Jersey constantly being at the top and winning the lottery.

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12 hours ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

IMHO, actions speak louder than words.  (Not that "I have dreams about McDavid" did not announce it any more loudly.)  XGMTM gets my contempt because he undermined the team at every turn by trading anyone playing well -- so obviously that players joked on the bench that if you were playing well, you were trying to get traded.

I personally think that the team played out of their heads in part because they used the negative motivation from management.  Ted Nolan was the perfect guy to turn that into something to drive them.  And Arturs Irbe worked magic with whomever XGMTM brought in.  The players, coaches, and normal fans were treated like crap and deserved better than learning how to habitually lose.

Yes, Murray was trying to get the team to finish dead last.  (Other GMs in other seasons also have tried that.)  Murray was smart enough not to brag about it.  The NHL will look the other way at a lot of transgressions, but doing something that embarrasses the dinosaurs intentionally AND being open about is one of the few things they cannot abide.  Murray kept his yap shut; Black didn't.  Dinosaurs don't have many emotions and they are not capable of feeling shame.  But they do feel embarrassment & it brings them to a rage. 

11 hours ago, Hoss said:

No, it has nothing to do with the Sabres. The lottery has existed for a while now. Recent adjustments were made before the McEichel year. The most recent changes were likely made because of a mix of Buffalo and New Jersey constantly being at the top and winning the lottery.

The lottery existed long before the Sabres decided to tank.  That is true.  BUT the 3 draw lottery didn't exist until the Sabres (& specifically Black) told the world their goal in 2014-'15 wasn't to retool but rather to win the right to draft McEichel.  The league cut the odds of worst getting 1st overall that season but agreed reluctantly that it was unfair to change the format after the league year had begun so the 3 draw lottery was delayed a year and implemented for Matthews, not McEichel.

Similarly to how the league changed the odds for teams to win the lottery this year (and only gave teams the right to move up to 1 & 2 rather than 1-3 this year) but saved the REAL modifications - teams only being able to move up 10 slots & only being able to win so often - for next season.  After teams have had a chance to incorporate the changes into their team building philosophies. 

[EDIT: And just went back through & reread the post I was originally responding to.  Had misread it as saying the multiple draw lottery was due to the Sabres, which it was.  But it actually said the lottery itself was due to the Sabres, which as Hoss stated is not correct.]

Edited by Taro T
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11 hours ago, Hoss said:

No, it has nothing to do with the Sabres. The lottery has existed for a while now. Recent adjustments were made before the McEichel year. The most recent changes were likely made because of a mix of Buffalo and New Jersey constantly being at the top and winning the lottery.

The most recent changes? I don't think those were Buffalo driven - we've only actually won 1 lottery drawing, ever. 

I think people are calling it the Edmonton rule. 

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Just now, WildCard said:

Ducks won in a SO and now have 4 more pts than the Sabres, each team has 2g to play.

Indeed. On the brink officially now. A point for the Ducks or a point lost for the Sabres caps it off.

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Just now, Hoss said:

Indeed. On the brink officially now. A point for the Ducks or a point lost for the Sabres caps it off.

I think you said earlier, but how is this not over yet? 

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1 minute ago, Hoss said:

Indeed. On the brink officially now. A point for the Ducks or a point lost for the Sabres caps it off.

 

what would be interesting is if Ducks lose both in regulation.   Sabres win both in OT or SHoot out.   Both would have identical records.  What happens ? Coin flip? Most goals scored ? 

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2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I think you said earlier, but how is this not over yet? 

The first tiebreaker is "Regulation Wins" now. Both Anaheim and Buffalo have 11. Buffalo needs two regulation wins and Anaheim needs two regulation losses to pass them.

2 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

 

what would be interesting is if Ducks lose both in regulation.   Sabres win both in OT or SHoot out.   Both would have identical records.  What happens ? Coin flip? Most goals scored ? 

See above.

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Just now, Hoss said:

The first tiebreaker is "Regulation Wins" now. Both Anaheim and Buffalo have 11. Buffalo needs two regulation wins and Anaheim needs two regulation losses to pass them.

See above.

What happened to ROW wins? Regulation always been the tierbreaker over them? 

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9 minutes ago, WildCard said:

What happened to ROW wins? Regulation always been the tierbreaker over them? 

It’s the second tiebreaker now - that’s a recent change.

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No matter what, the Ducks have to lose both in regulation for the Sabres to possibly pass them. 

Likewise, the Sabres need to win both, but not necessarily both in regulation, to pass them:

  • If at least one of the Sabres' two wins is in regulation, they pass the Duck based on RW tiebreaker.
  • If both Sabres wins are in OT/SO, they would be tied in points and RW, but would trail the Ducks in the ROW tiebreaker (at most 13 vs. the Duck's 15.)

In summary, for the Sabres to not finish last, the Ducks have to lose both in regulation and the Sabres must win both with at least one coming in regulation.

 

Edited by carpandean
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1 hour ago, carpandean said:

In summary, for the Sabres to not finish last, the Ducks have to lose both in regulation and the Sabres must win both with at least one coming in regulation.

That's not all that unlikely 

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34 minutes ago, WildCard said:

That's not all that unlikely 

No, but still notably more likely not to happen than to happen.  We play Pittsburgh twice and they play Minnesota twice.  They have similar records (including last 10), and both have clinched playoff spots.  Pittsburgh is playing for the top spot in the East Division, while the Wild are only playing for third in their division.

Anaheim is likely to lose both, but getting a point or even one win wouldn't be that surprising.

However, even with the Sabres playing like they are, winning both against Pittsburgh is a big task.  If they do manage to do that on the back of Houser winning four straight, though, I'll be OK with it.

Edited by carpandean
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I would love to see us win four straight and carry it over into next season.  Beating Pittsburgh is necessary to turn this around.  

We are likely to draft in the top 3 and get a good player so let’s just start winning.  

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55 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I would love to see us win four straight and carry it over into next season.  Beating Pittsburgh is necessary to turn this around.  

We are likely to draft in the top 3 and get a good player so let’s just start winning.  

My ideal scenario is that the Sabres beat Pittsburgh twice in regulation, and then Anaheim pushes one game to OT. 😁

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