Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Brawndo]

Just now, Doohickie said:

Not making stuff up.  Just "trusting" the guys who do make stuff up.  Reportedly there were two Western Conference offers that were better that Hall wouldn't approve. 

One those was Vegas

[Figster]

6 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

The Sabres have a long history of trading their captains.

Being a talented hockey player doesn't always equate to a good leader of men IMO. If the captain of a team doesn't lead his men well the C becomes meaningless IMO.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

One those was Vegas

Other was Edmonton. Or at least that was my understanding. 

[Doohickie]

3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Again the best result woukd be fielding a playoff team So that Jack would rather sign an extension, then leave

He's under contract for another 5 years.  I'm not worried about extending him then... Either the Sabres will have turned a corner and he will want to sign an extension or the Sabres have continued to struggle and we won't want him back.

[Lanny]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Byfield, Turcotte, Kupari Bjornfoot, first round picks for the next decade. 

Was it @Randall Flagg that had a thread breaking this down a couple years ago?

[LabattBlue]

I'm on record, unless Jack asks out, and the core needs a shake up(which it does), I put Reinhart and Risto on the block instead of Jack.

[#freejame]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'd trade him or yes, expose him. 

Why only 3?

I just can’t imagine getting their top three prospects, an up-and-coming NHL defenseman, and picks. Maybe we could pull off four assets but it would be difficult. 

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

I'm on record, unless Jack asks out, and the core needs a shake up(which it does), I put Reinhart and Risto on the block instead of Jack.

To me for willingness to move it's like

Risto>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Reinhart>>>>>>>>>>Eichel 

[OhMyDahlin]

It starts with Byfield and Turcotte...and I think I need Kaliyev added as well.

From there, throw on some draft picks.

I'm not taking back any bad contracts either.

That gives us Byfield, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Turcotte down the middle...and, hopefully, Matty Beniers.

We would be stacked at center.

 

(EDIT: That leaves the Kings with Eichel, Kopitar, Vilardi and Kupari down the middle, which they should be very happy about.)

Edited April 16, 2021 by OhMyDahlin

[Randall Flagg]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Easy no, all are skilled and talented players but none of them have a consistent body of work to outright trust going forward. Fox could be great, or he could just be Tyler Myers. I'm not interested in trading Eichel; even less so in the eastern conference.  

You should focus on those guys next time you watch a rangers game. 

There is no chance in the world we get a pool of hockey talent that good in an eichel trade, and our team is better overall with that swap before Laf even becomes something. 

What on earth would be an acceptable return for you?

[Randall Flagg]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

For the record, Rangers fans would not trade any of Fox, Laf or Shesterkin on their own for Eichel.

Now, the Rangers aren't the same as Ranger fans, but I am reasonably certain Fox would not be on the table and I am also reasonably certain the Sabres would want an asset as good as Lafreniere coming back.

Wookie is crazy for turning this down. A young 1G who is at .925 behind a team that can't coach or play D, a young virtually rookie defenseman that's a point per game, a 1OA with the tools to be a star, and a near-PPG winger? 

All for one center who can't play D and who scored at a negligible rate above that rookie D in his best season (a bit above ppg)?

Edited April 16, 2021 by Randall Flagg

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Wookie is crazy for turning this down. A young 1G who is at .925 behind a team that can't coach or play D, a young virtually rookie defenseman that's a point per game, a 1OA with the tools to be a star, and a near-PPG winger? 

All for one center who can't play D and who scored at a negligible rate above that rookie D in his best season (a bit above ppg)?

I mean, he had 78 in 68, and his pace was over 100 before he supposedly got hurt. He had that stretch to end with almost nothing.

I'm more concerned about his injuries tbh. If he's healthy, he's among the league's best. If you trust last season. 

And Eichel had 51 ES points last year, Fox has 20 so far, and 5 goals. You are obviously correct that Fox is amazing, he is, but the bolded is not an accurate representation of their scoring rate, which you are making a point of saying is negligibly different which is false. 

And Jack Eichel did not have bad D metrics the last 2 years, either, that I can recall. Though someone can correct me on that. He absolutely struggled on D up until a season or two ago. 

[Randall Flagg]

32 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I mean, he had 78 in 68, and his pace was over 100 before he supposedly got hurt. He had that stretch to end with almost nothing.

I'm more concerned about his injuries tbh. If he's healthy, he's among the league's best. If you trust last season. 

And Eichel had 51 ES points last year, Fox has 20 so far, and 5 goals. You are obviously correct that Fox is amazing, he is, but the bolded is not an accurate representation of their scoring rate, which you are making a point of saying is negligibly different which is false. 

And Jack Eichel did not have bad D metrics the last 2 years, either, that I can recall. Though someone can correct me on that. He absolutely struggled on D up until a season or two ago. 

I was banking on my memory there I thought he was closer to ~72 in ~70, I knew he fell hard. Looking now, it's 1 point in his last 8 games. I think if we had finished the year he'd be looking at barely over a point per game, but I concede that point because I was wrong about what the totals were at when the season was cut short. 

All told, I still am firm on the point that one player out of that batch is a defenseman who comes reasonably close to Jack's typical NHL point production per season, and has done it in his 2nd season. So I don't understand why wookster is being the way that he is. 

Whether or not a metric has gone up or down, Jack is still as lost in the defensive zone now as he's ever been, he had some abominable moments back there this year haha

Not a response to you, but just thinking aloud:

Without any other moves, 

Buchnevich - Cozens - Olofsson
Skinner - Reinhart - Lafreniere
Asplund - Mitts - Tage
Bjork - Girgensons - Ruotsalainen
Eakin, KO 

Dahlin - Jokiharju
Bryson - Fox
Borgen - Risto 
Miller, Samuelsson

Shesterkin 

Under contract for next year with a high first and a bunch of picks in reserve is a pretty decent slate to start the offseason with. I still try to bring in another good center. There are plenty of players/assets with which to do this, especially if you bring in a typical UFA or two at each position. You can find yourself in a situation where you can pair a Risto and an Olofsson or something, for a nice forward or defenseman you like. 

Versus

Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart
Bjork - Cozens - Olofsson
Asplund - Mitts - Tage
Ruotsalainen - Girgensons - KO
Eakin

Dahlin - Joki
Bryson - Risto
Borgen - Miller
Samuelsson

nothing

Eichel is real good, but I would have a lot more fun with my dream Rangers return, which we'd probably be lucky to get half of because nobody wants to be the Flyers in the Lindros trade. But I could feel just typing that second scenario out how much thinner we are. 

This is a dumb thought experiment because the Rangers wouldn't give us that in a million years, I just think it's crazy wookie wouldn't even entertain it 
 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Turcotte at DY+1 is 0.6207 P1/gp (primary points per game played)

Beniers at DE (draft eligible) 0.7916 P1/gp

Beniers is about 9 months younger than Turcotte. 

Beniers is actually nearly two years younger than Turcotte —Nov 2002, Feb 2001

[Doohickie]

3 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Buchnevich - Cozens - Olofsson
Skinner - Reinhart - Lafreniere
Asplund - Mitts - Tage
Bjork - Girgensons - Ruotsalainen
Eakin, KO 

No way Cozens is ready for the 1C role.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I was banking on my memory there I thought he was closer to ~72 in ~70, I knew he fell hard. Looking now, it's 1 point in his last 8 games. I think if we had finished the year he'd be looking at barely over a point per game, but I concede that point because I was wrong about what the totals were at when the season was cut short. 

All told, I still am firm on the point that one player out of that batch is a defenseman who comes reasonably close to Jack's typical NHL point production per season, and has done it in his 2nd season. So I don't understand why wookster is being the way that he is. 

Whether or not a metric has gone up or down, Jack is still as lost in the defensive zone now as he's ever been, he had some abominable moments back there this year haha

Not a response to you, but just thinking aloud:

Without any other moves, 

Buchnevich - Cozens - Olofsson
Skinner - Reinhart - Lafreniere
Asplund - Mitts - Tage
Bjork - Girgensons - Ruotsalainen
Eakin, KO 

Dahlin - Jokiharju
Bryson - Fox
Borgen - Risto 
Miller, Samuelsson

Shesterkin 

Under contract for next year with a high first and a bunch of picks in reserve is a pretty decent slate to start the offseason with. I still try to bring in another good center. There are plenty of players/assets with which to do this, especially if you bring in a typical UFA or two at each position. You can find yourself in a situation where you can pair a Risto and an Olofsson or something, for a nice forward or defenseman you like. 

Versus

Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart
Bjork - Cozens - Olofsson
Asplund - Mitts - Tage
Ruotsalainen - Girgensons - KO
Eakin

Dahlin - Joki
Bryson - Risto
Borgen - Miller
Samuelsson

nothing

Eichel is real good, but I would have a lot more fun with my dream Rangers return, which we'd probably be lucky to get half of because nobody wants to be the Flyers in the Lindros trade 
 

^reasonably comparable. At least, until you remember that apparently only Jack Eichel can catapult Skinner to 40 goals and that Skinner is making 9 million dollars per for the next 50 

[Randall Flagg]

5 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

No way Cozens is ready for the 1C role.

No doubt, I'm just laying out the assets you could feasibly go into the NHL offseason with under the scenario in which the trade wookie hated was made. 

It's pretty tantalizing, and we'd have the assets to make sure Cozens wasn't playing 1C yet unless he was ready to somehow. 

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

^reasonably comparable. At least, until you remember that apparently only Jack Eichel can catapult Skinner to 40 goals and that Skinner is making 9 million dollars per for the next 50 

Something tells me we are gonna keep Donny G and he is going to use the common sense and simplicity that has been so endearing to put those two back together, and it works just like it always has. Wouldn't that be something

Edited April 16, 2021 by Randall Flagg

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

No doubt, I'm just laying out the assets you could feasibly go into the NHL offseason with under the scenario in which the trade wookie hated was made. 

It's pretty tantalizing, and we'd have the assets to make sure Cozens wasn't playing 1C yet unless he was ready to somehow. 

Something tells me we are gonna keep Donny G and he is going to the common sense and simplicity that has been so endearing to put those two back together, and it works just like it always has. Wouldn't that be something

I think it's a real possibility. And the most cap effective if Skinner is ignited. I know Cozens looks like the man right now, but when the games are real next season, and he really has to be THE man, it's something you don't want to throw him into unnecessarily early, if we can avoid it. There's wisdom to be found on this board from posters like Weave and Ink who talked about how our kids were brought up in a leadership void - we gutted the roster so thoroughly, they didn't have that vet insulation, at least not vets they trusted. There's an added element to the pressure of being front and centre as your team's go to at the position. I kinda like the idea of this time, having some CAPABLE vets around for the kids, ones that command respect, because they rip it up on the ice still. 

Of course there's Reinhart and stuff, but Jack's at C Jack is holding the fort for team vets

Edited April 16, 2021 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think it's a real possibility. And the most cap effective if Skinner is ignited. I know Cozens looks like the man right now, but when the games are real next season, and he really has to be THE man, it's something you don't want to throw him into unnecessarily early, if we can avoid it. There's wisdom to be found on this board from posters like Weave and Ink who talked about how our kids were brought up in a leadership void - we gutted the roster so thoroughly, they didn't have that vet insulation, at least not vets they trusted. There's an added element to the pressure of being front and centre as your team's go to at the position. I kinda like the idea of this time, having some CAPABLE vets around for the kids, ones that command respect, because they rip it up on the ice still. 

Of course there's Reinhart and stuff, but Jack's at C Jack is holding the fort for team vets

We should start compiling a master list of guys like that. "Which skaters exist, have experience, and could play 2C or any other forward position effectively for us next year, without the age risk of a guy like Staal, the experience/position risk of Johansson etc." 

The UFAs are easy enough (I doubt there are many) but picture, like the Kadri trade or something. I don't think it was obvious he'd be moving. Who are all possible guys that fit a specific role, and what would it take to get them? 

I like using the mindset of building the roster like [young guy] doesn't exist or has to play wing. Like you say, pretend Cozens is the 4RW for a moment, how do we build a playoff team? Then, your team suddenly looks great if Cozens takes huge strides at C, and looks great in the case of an injury or two (which has been a consistent problem for the Sabres - every year, the injury bug hits like it does for everyone, and every year, we seem to have the ugliest roster you've ever seen when it does)

Edited April 16, 2021 by Randall Flagg

[LGR4GM]

46 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Beniers is actually nearly two years younger than Turcotte —Nov 2002, Feb 2001

I'm comparing their freshmen ncaa seasons. Beniers is about 9 month younger than what Turcotte was during his freshmen year. 

44 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

No doubt, I'm just laying out the assets you could feasibly go into the NHL offseason with under the scenario in which the trade wookie hated was made. 

It's pretty tantalizing, and we'd have the assets to make sure Cozens wasn't playing 1C yet unless he was ready to somehow. 

Something tells me we are gonna keep Donny G and he is going to use the common sense and simplicity that has been so endearing to put those two back together, and it works just like it always has. Wouldn't that be something

It's really not tantalizing to me. 

[sabremike]

Dreger is a disgusting scuzzy no talent boil on the ass of both journalism and humanity and that's the nicest thing I'll say about him. Even festering tubs of toilet water like that hack Larry Brooks look good in comparison to him.

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

I was banking on my memory there I thought he was closer to ~72 in ~70, I knew he fell hard. Looking now, it's 1 point in his last 8 games. I think if we had finished the year he'd be looking at barely over a point per game, but I concede that point because I was wrong about what the totals were at when the season was cut short. 

All told, I still am firm on the point that one player out of that batch is a defenseman who comes reasonably close to Jack's typical NHL point production per season, and has done it in his 2nd season. So I don't understand why wookster is being the way that he is. 

Whether or not a metric has gone up or down, Jack is still as lost in the defensive zone now as he's ever been, he had some abominable moments back there this year haha

Not a response to you, but just thinking aloud:

Without any other moves, 

Buchnevich - Cozens - Olofsson
Skinner - Reinhart - Lafreniere
Asplund - Mitts - Tage
Bjork - Girgensons - Ruotsalainen
Eakin, KO 

Dahlin - Jokiharju
Bryson - Fox
Borgen - Risto 
Miller, Samuelsson

Shesterkin 

Under contract for next year with a high first and a bunch of picks in reserve is a pretty decent slate to start the offseason with. I still try to bring in another good center. There are plenty of players/assets with which to do this, especially if you bring in a typical UFA or two at each position. You can find yourself in a situation where you can pair a Risto and an Olofsson or something, for a nice forward or defenseman you like. 

Versus

Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart
Bjork - Cozens - Olofsson
Asplund - Mitts - Tage
Ruotsalainen - Girgensons - KO
Eakin

Dahlin - Joki
Bryson - Risto
Borgen - Miller
Samuelsson

nothing

Eichel is real good, but I would have a lot more fun with my dream Rangers return, which we'd probably be lucky to get half of because nobody wants to be the Flyers in the Lindros trade. But I could feel just typing that second scenario out how much thinner we are. 

This is a dumb thought experiment because the Rangers wouldn't give us that in a million years, I just think it's crazy wookie wouldn't even entertain it 
 

I just seriously don't trust all of those players to pan out and we already have an elite center in Eichel. Simultaneously I have zero interest in trading Eichel in the Eastern Conference. 

Effectively your trade's roster on paper is very unpredictable. If all of the players continue to stay the same or better that would be a better team to a degree. However if any of Cozens/Reinhart/Mitts have a rough season; Buch, Shesterkin and/or Laf never pan out; or Fox pulls a Tyler Myers we could be effectively screwed with a weak team that is just a whole bunch of underperforming skill players. Eichel's line is effectively a given 85% of the time and not one of the other lines can give me anywhere near that reliability. 

[msw2112]

If the current trend of success and player development continues, I think you bring Eichel back into the mix next year, acquire a decent goaltender (or 2 if we lose Ullmark), and roll with what you have.  Sure, you also add a few complimentary pieces, as you do every year....Girgensons comes back too and he's a solid bottom 6 forward who plays with good energy and can score a few.  Granato seems to be getting the best out of the guys on the roster, so I see no reason why he won't be able to get the best out of Eichel.  We've all seen Eichel at the top of his game and he's one of the best in the league when he is.

The sample size is still too small, but we have another dozen (or baker's dozen?) games left to evaluate the current coaching staff.  If they maintain what they've done so far, they will have earned a shot next year.

[Curt]

3 hours ago, darksabre said:

That's exactly what I'm saying. He's a competitor. He's not going to sit in the press box for a whole season just to make a point. So his only option is to play and play hard, if he is a man of character. Then maybe the Sabres do him the favor and give him his way out. But he's not going to strong-arm them.

I don’t think that Eichel would refuse to play and sit out instead.  However, if he really wants to be traded, and asks for one, I think it’s in the teams best interest to trade him.  They don’t need to jump at the first crappy offer they get, but they would need to pursue a trade.

It just isn’t good for anyone to have the captain and face of the franchise coming to work every day wishing that he was somewhere else.  His heart wouldn’t be in it, and it wouldn’t help the team achieve greater heights.

I just think this attitude that the Sabres can just muscle Eichel into doing what they want is very misguided.  The team is not going to get anywhere like that.

[GASabresIUFAN]

What exactly would we get back that we actually need?  

Center: Cozens, Reinhart and Mitts.  Quinn is also getting time at center in Rochester.  R2 can also play center and we might get Berniers in the Draft.

Goaltending: Assuming we re-sign Ullmark, we have two very good prospects right behind him.

Defense: Dahlin, Bryson, Jokiharju, Samuelsson, Borgen, Johnson and Laaksonen are here or soon will be.

Wingers: R2, VO, Thompson, Asplund and even Bjork are asserting themselves for permanent top 9 roles; plus Skinner.  We also Quinn and JJP coming soon.  

So with this in mind, how does a trade of Eichel moves us forward when so many pieces are emerging now.  Seems like a setback rather then a step forward