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The Jack Eichel trade rumor and speculation thread (sorry).


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3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

yes they are. Again, Tampa did pretty good importing it. 

Lol, you should rewatch that series. 

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@PerreaultForever @LGR4GM

You guys a kind of swinging at the wind.

Does anyone think that you can build a contending team on analytics and offensive players while neglecting the ability to play/withstand the physical and mental parts of the game?

Does anyone think that Wayne Simmonds, or another aged, physical vet with very little left in the tank, makes a huge difference for Toronto, or is a key piece of a Cup contender?

You guys are fighting against the ideas of you most dislike, not discussing what each other are actually saying.

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1 minute ago, Curt said:

@PerreaultForever 

@LGR4GM

You guys a kind of swinging at the wind.

Does anyone think that you can build a contending team on analytics and offensive players while neglecting the ability to play/withstand the physical and mental parts of the game?

Does anyone think that Wayne Simmonds, or another aged, physical vet with very little left in the tank, makes a huge difference for Toronto, or is a key piece of a Cup contender?

You guys are fighting against the ideas of you most dislike, not discussing what each other are actually saying.

I don't. I've never said that either. My argument is simply adding in old vets for "toughness" doesn't work. 

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What I would be curious about is if someone is collecting data on checks finished, take-aways via physical engagement, board battles won, etc.  IMHO, this would be useful, albeit hard to quantify.  We would be able to determine how much a Wayne Simmonds helps or hurts different teams.

One thing that no one seems to remember is that, at the time and before the playoffs, the 2005-6 Sabres were nicknamed things like "the pond-hockey pansies" on several well-regarded major media sites.  They were considered soft like "cotton fluff" and "tough as shattered glass".  They were seen to be undermining "traditional hockey."  No one here remembers that because we have seen games with them playing a demonstrably tougher style in the playoffs.  In the playoffs, everyone can see for themselves how that team turned into a much physically tougher team.  A team need not play a tough game in the regular season yet still be tough as a $1/lb steak in the playoffs.

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40 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

First, I've sung the praises of Cozens from the draft onwards. Nothing added needed. Quinn and Peterka remains to be seen. I'm high on Peterka, not sure about Quinn. 

Second, you win in the playoffs with the ability to face and deter what the opposition throws at you. Again, Tampa got tougher for a reason. Pittsburgh, with prime Crosby is the only recent (arguable) exception to the rule that you need toughness to win it all. It'd be great if you can do that with true power forwards and young studs, but in a salary cap era, generally you need the low cost Simmons type players to fill out the bottom end and your reserves. 

yes they are. Again, Tampa did pretty good importing it. 

Crosby is one of the toughest players in the league. Knock him off the puck in his prime, knock Forsberg off the puck in his prime..same difference 

Crosby is probably the best Grinder the game has ever seen 

Remember when Sid took out Risto will a well aimed, clean hip check a few games ago because Risto had been in his face for 2 periods? The Crosby of his first few years has been gone for a decade, and the idea he's still that player is a myth. He fights his own battles as well as anyone - it's something admirable in any player - and a sign of true toughness. 

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2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Crosby is one of the toughest players in the league. Knock him off the puck in his prime, knock Forsberg off the puck in his prime..same difference 

Crosby is probably the best Grinder the game has ever seen 

Remember when Sid took out Risto will a well aimed, clean hip check a few games ago because Risto had been in his face for 2 periods? The Crosby of his first few years has been gone for a decade, and the idea he's still that player is a myth. He fights his own battles as well as anyone - it's something admirable in any player - and a sign of true toughness. 

Crosby's definitely grittier than he was (back for example in that series where Giroux demolished him and they went down to defeat) . I just meant that team as a whole was a skill team and not very tough but so skilled they won it all. It's a rare occurrence. You're more likely to have a Bruins/Canucks type situation where the more talented ends up on the losing end. 

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