Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Curt]

50 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Well, no kidding. Is it your contention that the Lemieuxs and Gretzkys wouldn't have won Cups without good to great supporting casts? Maybe. But an alternate argument is that those supporters were good to great because of The Ones who led the way.

Eichel's tide didn't come close to lifting all boats.

The Gretzky Oilers tested this theory for you.  Results came back.  They were good enough to win the Cup even without the best player ever.

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

You’ve obviously forgotten about Hasek and how he bulled his way out of town.  Hasek was worse than this and he’s still revered.

I could develop the same level of disdain as I did for Hasek if this continues.

Dom got us to the brink of a cup. What's Jack done?

[SDS]

38 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Did you catch my maths on Sabres with/without jack on the ice over his career compared to other stars? If "lifting all boats" means "improving the team's win loss record," many surprising names didn't do as much in the standings as eichel

I think the implication is different. It’s not the Sabres performance with or without Eichel, but it is with Eichel or  substitute some other equivalent talent with better perceived leadership skills.

if you remove a teams best player, it should go without saying that a team with a worse roster will fare worse than a team with a better supporting cast. Which exactly makes my point.

[LGR4GM]

Hard to be worse than an 18 game losing streak. 

[Thorny]

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

The spoiled child was promised he would get what he wanted if he behaved, but it’s already past lunchtime and it hasn’t happened yet. He’s starting to get angry.

It pretty hard not to see this quote as anything but ^^^^

“just take what they are ***** offering you Kevyn, you little *****! For ***** sakes! I want it now!”

Eye roll

Particularly ironic when the thread is littered with complaints about how nothing has happened yet

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thorny

[Sabres Fan in NS]

16 minutes ago, Curt said:

The Gretzky Oilers tested this theory for you.  Results came back.  They were good enough to win the Cup even without the best player ever.

Primarily because Mark wanted to proove that it wasn't all Wayne.

That said, that 1990 Oiler team was still very stacked at every position.  They likely would have won the cup in 1989, if it were not for Smith.

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Unless there is relatively certainty about Jack's injury and the path forward, we're not getting a bona fide 1C back  We might get an experienced C that we play on the first line, but he won't be 1C caliber.

This may or may not be okay.  If Jack's injury means he will never be the player he was, getting anything, anything at all, back from the salary dump of his contract will be worth it.

One of the biggest worries I have is that Buffalo takes on some of Jack's salary to get the deal done.  There's too much term left for that.

Maybe in a vacuum but no it's not OK to enter into the season with our current C depth/pipeline C depth. We are going to start our rebuild being the weakest at the most important position? It would just show how hyper-focused they are on the top of next year's draft and probably adding their odds together with the following year's draft, too, to make the plan seem more sound. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thorny

[Curt]

2 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Primarily because Mark wanted to proove that it wasn't all Wayne.

That said, that 1990 Oiler team was still very stacked at every position.  They likely would have won the cup in 1989, if it were not for Smith.

Yeah, that was kind of the whole point though.  Would removing the best player from a team “sink” the rest of the team, with Gretzky being mentioned  specifically.

Its one of the few hypotheticals we throw out here that had a near perfect test case.

[Gabrielor]

Zegras return is still my best life.

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, WildCard said:

If that's true, which I'm not sure it is, then it sounds a lot more like Pegulas are selling the team. Owners that sell teams always move the biggest contracts they have away from the team to make it more attractive to potential buyers.

Well yeah, nobody wants a Skinner contract coming back.

Or, there's merit to what people were speculating on when Adams took over. 

Terry "We've been spending to the cap to finish last, might as well spend way less if we are going to be bad". 

It's tank-ish rebuild - maybe he's selling the team but I don't think it needs that idea to be explained. 

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

Did you catch my maths on Sabres with/without jack on the ice over his career compared to other stars? If "lifting all boats" means "improving the team's win loss record," many surprising names didn't do as much in the standings as eichel

I don't think this is an argument that can be won. You either get that removing the 3rd and 4th goals in a 5-4 win sill makes you lose, or you think the 5th goal, the game winning goal, was the one that elevated the team over the top

On it's own.

1 hour ago, SabresVet said:

NFL franchises each get a $300M check every year for revenue sharing.  I'm guessing NHL teams receive significantly less.  From a purely financial perspective, those comparisons are not relevant.  NFL teams have to be really screwed up not to make money even in the pandemic.

I just keep seeing Terry pop up in everything and insistent on reducing costs.  With the Pegula's owning the Bills now (as opposed to when they first bought the Sabres) I don't think they'll be big spenders unless the team gets good.  And that's not gonna happen for at least 1-2 season.  So, they'll respond accordingly in a financial sense because even they're not dense enough to know tickets and merch sales will be way down this year. 

Good call. 

[Doohickie]

22 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Or, there's merit to what people were speculating on when Adams took over. 

Terry "We've been spending to the cap to finish last, might as well spend way less if we are going to be bad". 

It's tank-ish rebuild - maybe he's selling the team but I don't think it needs that idea to be explained. 

We had some very good teams when OSP owned the franchise.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

We had some very good teams when OSP owned the franchise.

I don't think lesser spending precludes a team from being good. 

But I do not think the desire to cut costs as much as possible while fielding a team as young as possible results in such 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thorny

[Doohickie]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I don't think lesser spending precludes a team from being good. 

But I do not think the desire to cut costs as much as possible while fielding a team as young as possible results in such 

On the contrary, I think that's exactly how you get a good team.  Have a bunch of kids graduate from the A within a year or two of each other, all on ELCs but performing at a high level.  We saw it in the mid-2000s.  I hope that the middle six last season is the beginning of a repeat of that.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

On the contrary, I think that's exactly how you get a good team.  Have a bunch of kids graduate from the A within a year or two of each other, all on ELCs but performing at a high level.  We saw it in the mid-2000s.  I hope that the middle six last season is the beginning of a repeat of that.

I'm talking about next season

[Ruff Around The Edges]

Don't know about all of you, but I have absolutely had it with the likes of Larry Brooks in the NY Post, where you can just feel the bitterness and rage jumping out of his articles and tweets about Eichel. Also so many unreasonable Rangers fans and their constant 'oh we don't want Eichel' and their low-ball offers but yet they seem so infinitely interested in the doings of EIchel.

Tired of the Ranger fans and their constant lies. We see right through your charade and the typical 'Ill talk down a player I really want in my secret hopes of sharking that player from that organization'. The act is annoying and tiresome. Go Away.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Ruff Around The Edges

[WildCard]

 

[Brawndo]

Here’s a follow up from Russo 

https://twitter.com/russohockey/status/1419719146300977153?s=21

[JohnC]

20 minutes ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

Don't know about all of you, but I have absolutely had it with the likes of Larry Brooks in the NY Post, where you can just feel the bitterness and rage jumping out of his articles and tweets about Eichel. Also so many unreasonable Rangers fans and their constant 'oh we don't want Eichel' and their low-ball offers but yet they seem so infinitely interested in the doings of EIchel.

Tired of the Ranger fans and their constant lies. We see right through your charade and the typical 'Ill talk down a player I really want in my secret hopes of sharking that player from that organization'. The act is annoying and tiresome. Go Away.

Do you think Sabre fans are any less unreasonable as Ranger fans? Being unrealistic is the standard no matter what location you are at. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

29 minutes ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

Don't know about all of you, but I have absolutely had it with the likes of Larry Brooks in the NY Post, where you can just feel the bitterness and rage jumping out of his articles and tweets about Eichel. Also so many unreasonable Rangers fans and their constant 'oh we don't want Eichel' and their low-ball offers but yet they seem so infinitely interested in the doings of EIchel.

Tired of the Ranger fans and their constant lies. We see right through your charade and the typical 'Ill talk down a player I really want in my secret hopes of sharking that player from that organization'. The act is annoying and tiresome. Go Away.

You are about as far away from NYC as you can get and still be on the mainland.

So, I suggest that either you get yourself to the big *5 O*, or just ignore them.

😉

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, Curt said:

I don’t think the level of accomplishment and success is comparable between Hasek and Eichel.

Hasek is revered because he was the best player in the league for a good stretch.  6 Vezinas, 2 Harts and a couple deep playoff runs in an 8 year period.

Eichel has an 8th place in Hart voting season and missed the playoffs every  year.

Exactly. Not even close. Hasek gave us wins we didn't really deserve and almost got us a cup. There was absolutely zero TEAM success with Eichel. 

It will be interesting when he leaves to see what he says. Risto took the high road and some responsibility saying he played a role in the failure. Will Eichel do the same?

Apparently Sweeney called Sabres again after the draft to see if the Price was down, it wasn't, he hung up. No Bruins dream  for Jack. 

[Buffalonill]

33 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Here’s a follow up from Russo 

https://twitter.com/russohockey/status/1419719146300977153?s=21

 So it's pretty much a lock he's going there. 

 

Have to have a un protected 2022 draft pick also or no deal 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Buffalonill

[Buffalonill]

 

 

 got super excited when I saw this but it's fake ...  If we got something like this winning all day 

[Brawndo]

Here’s the part on Eichel from The Athletic 

The one player whose name comes up in discussion within the Wild offices throughout the weekend shouldn’t surprise anyone: Jack Eichel.

It shouldn’t be a surprise because Buffalo has made it perfectly clear they are looking to move on from the No. 2 pick in 2015 and there are a handful of teams, including the Wild, that have an obvious need for an elite No. 1 center.

Eichel is such a player and even with the significant cap issues created by the Suter and Parise buyouts, there is still dialogue internally about how or if acquiring Eichel works for the Wild.

It’s called due diligence.

One can only imagine similar conversations are going on around the league.

No team is going to be able to make a deal for Eichel without contemplating a number of factors. First, the prospects and picks it would take to satisfy Buffalo will likely include any number of the team’s top prospects plus a handful of first-round picks down the road. Then there is the $10 million cap hit Eichel carries for the next five years.

How do you address all those moving parts without throwing the team’s carefully laid plans to move forward into complete chaos? Or can you? The truth of the matter is there really isn’t a definitive answer. So Guerin and his staff keep looking at it from as many angles as they can.

Friday morning those discussions become more earnest with Sells, O’Hearn, Shero, Sexton and Guerin blue-skying what works from their end.

Guerin turns to a large glass board on another of the room’s walls and begins drawing up what a deal might look like and what kind of elements might need to come into play if they were to try and pry Eichel out of Buffalo.

Eichel is determined to have neck surgery as opposed to rehabbing an injury that cost him half of last season and will likely miss the start of the coming season. The Sabreshave opposed the surgery option and the handling of the injury has led in some ways to the acrimony between Eichel and the Sabres.

“How do we protect ourselves,” Sexton asks.

Guerin calls the Wild’s team doctor to get input on the situation. The doctor in turn agrees to call a neck specialist to provide some more context. Later Guerin has a long chat with the specialist about his interpretation of the procedure that Eichel is angling toward having.

The group looks at the glass board and the assets that could possibly go out the door.

“It’s a lot,” someone in the group notes.

But it’s Jack Eichel, a superstar center, another notes.

It’s now mid-morning. The draft is about eight hours away.

On that glass board is the outline of a deal that would change everything for Buffalo and Minnesota if it ever came to fruition.

It won’t be the last time Eichel’s name comes up during the weekend.

 

[Zamboni]

Is there a possibility that people can stop posting fake stuff and then commenting on the fake stuff? I’m probably just being an old stick in the mud… But I really prefer realistic information… Even if it is speculation. when those fake things come into existence by idiots… it would be nice to not share them. yeah… Maybe it’s just me.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Zamboni