Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Gentlemen you can't fight in here, this is the War Room.

Great movie.

[SJSabres Fan]

58 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Artificial disc replacement has not been done much in the US, mostly in Europe. Some athletes in high collision sports have had the procedure. No one in the NHL has had it. It's a procedure not without risk. It's also not known what happens a few months after the surgery and Jack gets his head driven into the boards.

I have Conformis knee implants. Two of them. I can walk with less pain than before. I can even skate and play low level hockey. But I can't run or jog with them. My goaltending career is definitely over.  I've taken bike rides and had my knees blow up. My point is artificial things aren't as good as your original equipment. So can an artificial disc act and feel as good as what you were born with?

The whole surgery discussion revolves around risk and who assumes it. Jack wants the Sabres to give him permission to get this surgery. The Sabres will be liable for Jack's contract should Jack not be able to play. According to Craig Rivet on the Instigators this morning, the Sabres have an insurance policy on players in case of catastrophic injury. That policy would be no longer cover the Sabres in Jack's case because this surgery is considered experimental.

So if you're in Adams' shoes, what's your call? It's likely Jack comes out of this okay but it's not guaranteed. You staff doctors are telling you rest and rehab is preferred, and if surgery is needed, do a traditional fusion. All this for a player that hates your team and wants out...even though his antics are making that harder.

Thank you…this is such a helpful description of what is going on.  I’ve watched a lot of posters from afar but I think you’ve been a solid go-to for opinions. 

[dudacek]

42 minutes ago, SDS said:

The people who are credible here absolutely don’t want to mention the words “career threatening“. Jack is not going to admit his career may be over and the Sabres sure as hell aren’t going to talk about his career being over.

Still, I would give up what either one of our other two players got for the possibility of Jack. I think the reward greatly out ways the risk. 

I think the risk of it being career threatening is not only real, but it is substantial or at least career threatening in the sense that he becomes a JAG and not the number 2 pick in the draft.

We are dealing with someone’s spine here. I encourage everyone who is actually interested in this to read about thesis procedure. You don’t just slip an artificial disk in, sew up the incision and pat him on the ass. The gap between vertebrae should be matched exactly, but the disks themselves only come in certain thicknesses and sizes. They also have teeth in which the bone needs to grow around so that the disk does not move and that process isn’t guaranteed. 

I think fans are greatly underestimating the risk this procedure holds.

I have already addressed the bold; I agree there is a non-negligible chance Jack’s injury and/or it’s fix hampers his career. That is not the same as ending his career - meaning that it stops him from playing more than a handful of games moving forward.

Like @nfreeman’s earlier post, I think we are talking about different things. I am talking about the injury. You are talking about the disc replacement surgery. The course of treatment, and their comfort level with the risk of that treatment, will be between Jack and the acquiring team to decide.

Edited August 5, 2021 by dudacek

[Andrew Amerk]

My guess is that Jack is a Sabre for the foreseeable future. 

It reminds me of when I’ve sold cars that needed work. Everyone lowballed me. They were harder to move and I got less than I should have. When I’ve sold cars that didn’t need work, they went right out the door. 

It is likely that for KA to get what he’s asking, Jack will have to play again and show he is fine. I am not sure how that can happen if they cannot agree on treatment. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

The people who are credible here absolutely don’t want to mention the words “career threatening“. Jack is not going to admit his career may be over and the Sabres sure as hell aren’t going to talk about his career being over.

Still, I would give up what either one of our other two players got for the possibility of Jack. I think the reward greatly out ways the risk. 

I think the risk of it being career threatening is not only real, but it is substantial or at least career threatening in the sense that he becomes a JAG and not the number 2 pick in the draft.

We are dealing with someone’s spine here. I encourage everyone who is actually interested in this to read about thesis procedure. You don’t just slip an artificial disk in, sew up the incision and pat him on the ass. The gap between vertebrae should be matched exactly, but the disks themselves only come in certain thicknesses and sizes. They also have teeth in which the bone needs to grow around so that the disk does not move and that process isn’t guaranteed. 

I think fans are greatly underestimating the risk this procedure holds.

The Eichel camp put out the charm offensive with that news dump Friday and the "coincidental" Dr. Prusmak interview by Elliotte Freidman. They are garnering sympathy among fans with hope of pressuring the rookie GM to take whatever deal is offered. Frankly I'm disappointed in Freidman for being a pawn here. He owes it to everyone to get the Sabres side out there too.

[Pimlach]

22 hours ago, dudacek said:

So, reasonably speaking, if Eichel has the value of Jones (he should have more) we should expect a minimum fair market return of:

• Jack Eichel for Othmann, Schneider, 2022 1st
• Jack Eichel for Wallstedt, Boldy, 2022 1st
• Jack Eichel for Perreault, Comtois, 2022 1st

I wonder if these are the kinds of offers currently on the table

Does Jones have a serious injury, possibly requiring experimental surgery?  No.   
 

I think the table is bare for now.  Teams want to see a healthy Eichel in order to pay what Adams wants.  

Edited August 5, 2021 by Pimlach

[dudacek]

36 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Dies Jones have a serious injury, possibly requiring experimental surgery?  No.   
 

I think the table is bare now.  Teams want to see a healthy Eichel in order to pay what Adams wants.  

You may be right. If you are, and Adams has yet to get even a Seth Jones level offer, then why are we still playing this game?

Adams has had more than enough time to determine that no one is going to pay his price given Jack’s health status, switch gears and get Jack healthy in order to get better offers. Why hasn’t that happened?

Id suggest one of two reasons:

Either:

he is determined to trade Jack by a certain date, prior to surgery, for the best available offer and that date has yet to arrive.

Or:

There is enough interest, and give and take, and circling back and counter-offers that he believes teams have yet to make their final offers and there is a worthwhile return still to be had.

[Shmuffalo]

15 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Either:

he is determined to trade Jack by a certain date, prior to surgery, for the best available offer and that date has yet to arrive.

Or:

There is enough interest, and give and take, and circling back and counter-offers that he believes teams have yet to make their final offers and there is a worthwhile return still to be had.

These are very similar, but I sadly expect the former, prefer the latter. #400Pages4John

[Hoss]

Someone made a reference to it a page or two ago but this thread is boring as ***** now so let's make a fun guess:

How many pages will this thread go before Jack is actually traded?

I'll go with 302.

Also, mods @SDS @nfreeman @spndnchz is there a way to check what thread is the longest in board history? This one has to be pushing it if it hasn't already, no?

[steveoath]

I'll go for 273

[Hoss]

Winner gets a $5 gift card to the surgeon that Jack eventually gets his surgery with.

[Shmuffalo]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

Someone made a reference to it a page or two ago but this thread is boring as ***** now so let's make a fun guess:

How many pages will this thread go before Jack is actually traded?

I'll go with 302.

Also, mods @SDS @nfreeman @spndnchz is there a way to check what thread is the longest in board history? This one has to be pushing it if it hasn't already, no?

 

edit. 35-Niner

Edited August 5, 2021 by Shmuffalo

[Hoss]

A few random offers from teams we don't really talk about with Jack:

New Jersey - C Dawson Mercer, LW Graeme Clarke, D Damon Severson and a 2022 or 2023 1st for Jack and Colin Miller

Arizona - C Barrett Hayton, D Victor Soderstrom and a 2022 or 2023 1st for Jack and another mid-level piece

Nashville - C Phil Tomasino, D David Farrance (another LHD but he's from Rochester so ***** it), 2022 or 2023 1st for Jack and one of our young LHD

[sabrefanday1]

Got to think there is no real good offers on the table or KA would have pulled the trigger by now. Might as well complete the dumpster fire sale but I think it is safe to say other teams are very cautious to wait and see how the whole injury thing plays out. The old he-said he said thing between doctors is rather misleading and no other team is going to even consider making a play for Jack unless a) his health is cleared (which is won't) or b) they have their own doctors examine Jack to give a estimate as to when he will be able to play again (if ever). Can see nothing happening for a while until something is 100% established as to his health.  What a complete mess this team has become. Tanking for years to get a "generational" player (we obviously hope to get McDavid but Jack was also suppose to be close to if not a generational player too) and lose all kinds of good players as they bail from a team that does not want to win and can see this is a sinking ship and now we are desperate to get rid of the player we tanked for (we already got rid of the other guy we tanked for Sam who was a really good player and very consistent with games played and goals & assists).

[Sabres Fan in NS]

5 hours ago, Hoss said:

Someone made a reference to it a page or two ago but this thread is boring as ***** now so let's make a fun guess:

How many pages will this thread go before Jack is actually traded?

I'll go with 302.

Also, mods @SDS @nfreeman @spndnchz is there a way to check what thread is the longest in board history? This one has to be pushing it if it hasn't already, no?

There are many OT threads that are far longer, but that have been around a lot longer, so it seems that you are talking Sabre related threads.  This has got to be one of the longest, if not the longest already.  With no end in sight. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

And another thing to note ...

This thread was started on April 16th.  This has got to be one of the heaviest traffic threads ever at page 242 and counting about 3.5 months in.

[Zamboni]

25 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

And another thing to note ...

This thread was started on April 16th.  This has got to be one of the heaviest traffic threads ever at page 242 and counting about 3.5 months in.

And everyone can do their part by repeating themselves several times or saying the same thing in a different way at least 10 times over the course of the next few weeks. And we should have no problem getting to 300 pages. 😂

[Sabres Fan in NS]

16 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

And everyone can do their part by repeating themselves several times or saying the same thing in a different way at least 10 times over the course of the next few weeks. And we should have no problem getting to 300 pages. 😂

If we are at 242 after not even 4 months and I don't see John being traded any time soon and if we limit ourselves to one and only one post per day I can see this thread easily getting to the 500 page mark by the time a trade happens.

I am convinced that a trade will not happen until John is healthy and playing again, so that other teams can see that there is no real risk in making a trade for him.

I see a trade happening not long before his NMC kicks in at midnight on June 30, 2022, if at all.

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

You may be right. If you are, and Adams has yet to get even a Seth Jones level offer, then why are we still playing this game?

Adams has had more than enough time to determine that no one is going to pay his price given Jack’s health status, switch gears and get Jack healthy in order to get better offers. Why hasn’t that happened?

Id suggest one of two reasons:

Either:

he is determined to trade Jack by a certain date, prior to surgery, for the best available offer and that date has yet to arrive.

Or:

There is enough interest, and give and take, and circling back and counter-offers that he believes teams have yet to make their final offers and there is a worthwhile return still to be had.

Not sure what game is being played.  There are no offers we will take and most teams have  set their rosters after free agency started so cap room is a constraint.  
 

I think the new step is what treatment or surgery and when, and does it effect the contract that is in place.  

[I-90 W]

I’m glad KA has been holding the line, I’m also wondering what a fully healthy Jack is worth. We all know he is a PPG 1C, but would you put him in the top 10? How about top 15? 

[nfreeman]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

You may be right. If you are, and Adams has yet to get even a Seth Jones level offer, then why are we still playing this game?

Adams has had more than enough time to determine that no one is going to pay his price given Jack’s health status, switch gears and get Jack healthy in order to get better offers. Why hasn’t that happened?

Id suggest one of two reasons:

Either:

he is determined to trade Jack by a certain date, prior to surgery, for the best available offer and that date has yet to arrive.

Or:

There is enough interest, and give and take, and circling back and counter-offers that he believes teams have yet to make their final offers and there is a worthwhile return still to be had.

Although I think both of your suggested reasons are quite plausible, there is a 3rd possibility IMHO:  Adams is resigned to the market-driven need to show a healthy Jack to the rest of the NHL before he can be traded for a rich package, but Adams, based on advice from team doctors, wants him to have the traditional fusion surgery, and Jack wants the newfangled disk replacement surgery.

[SDS]

7 hours ago, Hoss said:

Someone made a reference to it a page or two ago but this thread is boring as ***** now so let's make a fun guess:

How many pages will this thread go before Jack is actually traded?

I'll go with 302.

Also, mods @SDS @nfreeman @spndnchz is there a way to check what thread is the longest in board history? This one has to be pushing it if it hasn't already, no?

Just sort by replies

[WildCard]

Definitely the longest Sabres thread we've had in awhile. Seems like the board fizzled off a little around 2015. Wonder what could have happened then...

Edited August 5, 2021 by WildCard

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Not sure what game is being played.  There are no offers we will take and most teams have  set their rosters after free agency started so cap room is a constraint.  
 

I think the new step is what treatment or surgery and when, and does it effect the contract that is in place.  

The game of refusing to address Jack's need for surgery prior to a trade.

I think @nfreeman raises a good point though: it's likely not a game, it's a standoff, with each side refusing the other's desired path.

Edited August 5, 2021 by dudacek

[COSabreFan]

44 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The game of refusing to address Jack's need for surgery prior to a trade.

I think @nfreeman raises a good point though: it's likely not a game, it's a standoff, with each side refusing the other's desired path.

And one the Sabres will likely ultimately have to give in some on.  It’s just silly now.  Allow him to have surgery ASAP, then trade him for the best you can when healthy.  Jack to me has all the leverage, Sabres have more to lose.

Edited August 5, 2021 by COSabreFan