Cascade Youth Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 minute ago, LGR4GM said: Adams doesn't believe the Sabres can win during Jack's window and wants to reset the team 3-4 years behind that window. In order to make that reset function, trading Eichel to get younger high end prospects makes more sense than wasting another 2-3 years of Eichel. Not saying I agree just offering an option I would be very surprised if Adams pitched it that way to his bosses. More likely, he sold them on the possibility of winning sooner by cleansing the culture and they were all over it since it worked with their football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 minute ago, LGR4GM said: Adams doesn't believe the Sabres can win during Jack's window and wants to reset the team 3-4 years behind that window. In order to make that reset function, trading Eichel to get younger high end prospects makes more sense than wasting another 2-3 years of Eichel. Yup. This is how I'm seeing it. I don't think, especially after the end of last season and the way he tried to play through some real debilitating injuries this season, that Eichel's attitude or effort or drive to win is in any doubt. I also don't think "attitude reasons" are a good reason to trade any player anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 28 minutes ago, WildCard said: Saw it didn't work for X amount of years, cut the cord while he still has value and try again. Still, they're handling it about as poor as you can PR wise. 20 minutes ago, darksabre said: I don't know. I don't think there's really a good way to handle "disgruntled franchise player who we as management have soured on is trying to bludgeon us into letting him have experimental surgery in the middle of our trying to trade him to reset the franchise". 4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Adams doesn't believe the Sabres can win during Jack's window and wants to reset the team 3-4 years behind that window. In order to make that reset function, trading Eichel to get younger high end prospects makes more sense than wasting another 2-3 years of Eichel. Not saying I agree just offering an option Right, that's exactly what I'm saying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 minute ago, darksabre said: Yup. This is how I'm seeing it. I don't think, especially after the end of last season and the way he tried to play through some real debilitating injuries this season, that Eichel's attitude or effort or drive to win is in any doubt. I also don't think "attitude reasons" are a good reason to trade any player anyway. However, that is why Jack Eichel is being traded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said: I would be very surprised if Adams pitched it that way to his bosses. More likely, he sold them on the possibility of winning sooner by cleansing the culture and they were all over it since it worked with their football team. I think they are prepared to be bad this season and looking for major improvements in 2022. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Just now, dudacek said: However, that is why Jack Eichel is being traded. If the Sabres are trading Eichel for the same reason they traded O'Reilly, then the rest of the league knows that is what is happening, and the return is gonna be just as horrifying. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, I-90 W said: If KA really did want Jack out of here before the injury (plausible), then logically Jack would have to be the toxic, head case that some make him out to be. I don’t see any other reason why KA would want a player like him gone, logically. I’m not saying this is the case, but if the theory is true, it would have to mean Jack has significant character issues. In addition to what @LGR4GMalready said, we so often see new GMs come in and want to "make their mark" in regards to the roster. They can't all be headcases. Sometimes it could just be seen as a bad "fit", too. If I had to guess, if Adams spoke candidly with someone off the record, I feel like he might say something to the effect of, "he's not a bad kid, but as an organization, him as an individual, we are just in completely different places right now". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 minute ago, darksabre said: If the Sabres are trading Eichel for the same reason they traded O'Reilly, then the rest of the league knows that is what is happening, and the return is gonna be just as horrifying. Especially if the owner is once again handcuffing his GM on how he handles the return. (You never did tell me why ROR was traded. I'm starting to heal.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, dudacek said: However, that is why Jack Eichel is being traded. Arguable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Just now, Thorny said: In addition to what @LGR4GMalready said, we so often see new GMs come in and want to "make their mark" in regards to the roster. They can't all be headcases. Sometimes it could just be seen as a bad "fit", too. If I had to guess, if Adams spoke candidly with someone off the record, I feel like he might say something to the effect of, "he's not a bad kid, but as an organization, him as an individual, we are just in completely different places right now". I still suspect that it might be because of the effect Jack has on the locker room, but I concede that the theory that you and others have put forth is highly plausible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 12 hours ago, Hoss said: This is a good point and I wonder if there’s a chance even as many as two or three low-cap roster players are sent FROM Buffalo to the acquiring team for Jack. I wouldn’t mind if guys like Hagg, Bryson, Zemgus and Bjork are involved because I don’t believe any of them hold a lot of value and if they could move the needle on a great return I’m in. Welcome! This opinion has been shared a number of times on this board. Any further insight on whether you think the team can overcome the public trade demand from Jack/his agents? Is this the same agent who negotiated his current contract that has five years left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Just now, Thorny said: In addition to what @LGR4GMalready said, we so often see new GMs come in and want to "make their mark" in regards to the roster. They can't all be headcases. Sometimes it could just be seen as a bad "fit", too. If I had to guess, if Adams spoke candidly with someone off the record, I feel like he might say something to the effect of, "he's not a bad kid, but as an organization, him as an individual, we are just in completely different places right now". Or "he's a helluva hockey player, but he's also self-centred prima donna who demands way too much attention, and we're just tired of kissing his ass." 😜 (Seriously, I admire your steadfast refusal to consider Jack might be a douche without direct evidence.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 28 minutes ago, Thorny said: https://www.si.com/hockey/news/sabres-back-at-square-1-in-seeking-to-trade-eichel Reasonable article. Of note: "The injury was but the breaking point for the 24-year-old Eichel, who has five years left on an eight-year, $80 million contract with a no-trade movement clause that kicks in next summer. His days appeared numbered once Adams took over last summer and prepared to place his stamp on a floundering franchise. By September, teams were contacting Adams about Eichel’s potential availability, something Adams confirmed while saying he had no intention of trading the player. Public speculation of Eichel’s status in Buffalo didn’t sit well with the team’s highest-paid player, who insisted he wasn’t the one seeking a trade. What followed was a series of injuries, starting with Eichel breaking a rib during an on-ice session before the start of training camp, which led to the five-time 20-goal-scorer limited to a season-low two goals and 18 points in 21 games." This is part of the story. 29 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: When did Jack's neck become a back injury? The question is how many teams really want Eichel? All you need are two bidding against each other. Right now everyone is playing it cool, trying to see if the rookie GM cracks. So far he's not. Eventually one of the suitors will break rank. Not as many as you would think, for various reasons, cost, injury risk, and attitude at the top of the list. 19 minutes ago, darksabre said: It's basically what I've been saying all along. While everyone else was throwing Jack in the river for demanding a trade, I've never believed that that happened. If the Sabres trade Jack it's because they want to. Jack has a role too. 18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: 100% This is the truth. Not 100%. This is more complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 1 minute ago, dudacek said: Especially if the owner is once again handcuffing his GM on how he handles the return. (You never did tell me why ROR was traded. I'm starting to heal.) Isn't there a chance they are framing it the way you say, for "attitude" reasons (by the way, nothing overly nefarious, more of a "doesn't want to be here" thing) which they clearly seem to be doing, but that in reality it's for some of the other reasons laid out? If it is for "attitude" reasons in reality, I still think it'd be more along the lines of them having different priorities rather than them thinking Jack was of low-character. 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: Or "he's a helluva hockey player, but he's also self-centred prima donna who demands way too much attention, and we're just tired of kissing his ass." 😜 (Seriously, I admire your steadfast refusal to consider Jack might be a douche without direct evidence.) This is kinda what I mean. I don't think there is any evidence, direct or not, that would lead me to believe Jack is a "douche". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 I believe it was @Thorny who said that the winning window is not Jack's it became Rasmus II's when they draft him. Who ever said that, I agree with it and that is a prime motivation to trade Jack, as @LGR4GM stated up thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Thorny said: Isn't there a chance they are framing it the way you say, for "attitude" reasons (by the way, nothing overly nefarious, more of a "doesn't want to be here" thing) which they clearly seem to be doing, but that in reality it's for some of the other reasons laid out? If it is for "attitude" reasons in reality, I still think it'd be more along the lines of them having different priorities rather than them thinking Jack was of low-character. This is kinda what I mean. I don't think there is any evidence, direct or not, that would lead me to believe Jack is a "douche". Other than being from Boston. sorry. Edited July 27, 2021 by Thorny this is a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, dudacek said: Especially if the owner is once again handcuffing his GM on how he handles the return. (You never did tell me why ROR was traded. I'm starting to heal.) It was during the Pegulas big push to clean people out of the Bills and Sabres who would make them look bad. They didn't like the drunk driving stuff, and they really didn't like all the legal stuff with Evander Kane. O'Reilly was a problem waiting to happen in their opinion. I don't believe they see Eichel that way. He's not too much of a troublemaker off the ice. Anymore... Edited July 27, 2021 by darksabre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Just now, darksabre said: It was during the Pegulas big push to clean people out of the org who would make them look bad. They didn't like the drunk driving stuff, and they really didn't like all the legal stuff with Evander Kane. O'Reilly was a problem waiting to happen in their opinion. I don't believe they see Eichel that way. He's not too much of a troublemaker off the ice. Anymore... Oh, not the Adams' driven purge. We gotta start giving these "big pushes to clean people out of the organization" events titles, because it's getting a bit confusing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 With Vegas clearing capspace... They have Pavel Dorofeyev and Peyton Krebs in their system. Dorofeyev is adjusting to NA still but is a Russian Winger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-90 W Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) In fairness though Jack doesn’t have to be a ROR or Kane level off the ice problem, just being an all star captain who doesn’t want to be here and is unhappy is enough to be rather damaging. When the most prominent player on the team is a malcontent (not saying he doesn’t have reason to be though), that can be a very destructive force. We’ve probably all seen it on some level or another in our respective work places. Edited July 27, 2021 by I-90 W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 31 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Terry doesn't believe the Sabres can win during Jack's window and wants to reset the team 3-4 years behind that window. In order to make that reset function, trading Eichel to get younger high end prospects makes more sense than wasting another 2-3 years of Eichel. Not saying I agree just offering an option fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 I feel like this is going to happen any hour now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 Just now, WildCard said: I feel like this is going to happen any hour now I'm about to take my lunchtime walk, so assume it happens in the next 30 minutes 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabrielor Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 I'd LOVE Peyton Krebs. He would've been my pick in 2019 over Cozens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresVet Posted July 27, 2021 Report Share Posted July 27, 2021 53 minutes ago, darksabre said: It's basically what I've been saying all along. While everyone else was throwing Jack in the river for demanding a trade, I've never believed that that happened. If the Sabres trade Jack it's because they want to. Adams was probably in assessment mode last summer, having taken the job in June and Eichel was a part of that. If teams contacted him about Jack''s availability it was likely on their own and not because Eichel was there for a trade. I also think that, if Adams eventually saw Eichel in a negative light that there'd need to be some deconstructing his reputation done behind the scenes. Because fans would object to trading your best player amid more losing. The injury kinda made all this possible. If Jack plays a full schedule and scores like he did in 2019-20, I don't see Adams getting the support to trade him. 38 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said: But make no mistake - this is a Pegula problem, not an Adams issue. These people are highly insecure and it cascades down the organization. Owners, because they're largely behind the scenes, escape the blame because fans don't see them. It's why a segment of the fan base is ripping Jack and not the owner who couldn't hire a GM to save his life. And then there's decisions on other executives, budgets, etc. which impact the team far more than any one player ever could. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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