kas23 Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 24 minutes ago, Curt said: No one is going to get tricked. Eichel will be taking a physical. The acquiring team will have all the information. Although incredibly crucial, a physical is usually one of the last steps in the trading process. We’re miles from that. My point is, if he’s not skating at TC, there’s really no reason for him to even get on a plane to take a physical. It seems we have got to the point where is he isn’t going anywhere until he can show that he is healthy. He’s been trying to do this in the Boston area, but GMs aren’t biting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Buff Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 Saw a stream on youtube going over possible 3 way trade scenarios for Jack & since its so quiet I figured i'd share the screenshots to see what you all thought. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 Obviously that was done by a Ranger fanboi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Buff Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 37 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Obviously that was done by a Ranger fanboi. haha... I believe the guy is a Sens fan. It was from that TopShelfHockey channel on youtube. He thinks, as do many i suppose, that the Rangers are the most likely suitor for Jack atm. I'm not too thrilled with the returns but I imagine they're probably more of what we're looking at than a top level prospect coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresparaavida Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, In The Buff said: haha... I believe the guy is a Sens fan. It was from that TopShelfHockey channel on youtube. He thinks, as do many i suppose, that the Rangers are the most likely suitor for Jack atm. I'm not too thrilled with the returns but I imagine they're probably more of what we're looking at than a top level prospect coming back. Honestly, the wild trade isn’t too bad. Fiala would slot into our top 6 for as long as he is willing to put up with the franchise. 2 firsts added to next year’s stacked draft. A goalie that’s better than any on our current roster. I would definitely need Zachary Jones switched out for a different prospect though, we have enough LD. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman0519 Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 Nobody is coughing up for injured Jack right now. He will have some sort of surgery and be out long term anyways. They will get him back to playing level and ship him out next winter. I don't think he suits up in a Sabres uni again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 hours ago, In The Buff said: Saw a stream on youtube going over possible 3 way trade scenarios for Jack & since its so quiet I figured i'd share the screenshots to see what you all thought. Not one of those trades works well whatsoever. In every trade listed the Sabres get a mess of pieces with mediocre value. The Sens one is surprisingly the only one that even gives us more than a few pennies they found outside a store. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 11 hours ago, kas23 said: He has an incredibly important reason to be on ice come training camp. He needs to show GMs he is healthy or at least trick them he is. If he doesn’t, then there’s a 0.0 chance he’ll get traded. How is someone who needs surgery to play hockey, who hasn’t had that surgery, going to be on the ice in training camp to show that he’s healthy? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 7 hours ago, thewookie1 said: Not one of those trades works well whatsoever. In every trade listed the Sabres get a mess of pieces with mediocre value. The Sens one is surprisingly the only one that even gives us more than a few pennies they found outside a store. The Minnesota one gives Buffalo a young top-6 winger, a young NHL goalie, and two 1st round picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 11 hours ago, kas23 said: Although incredibly crucial, a physical is usually one of the last steps in the trading process. We’re miles from that. My point is, if he’s not skating at TC, there’s really no reason for him to even get on a plane to take a physical. It seems we have got to the point where is he isn’t going anywhere until he can show that he is healthy. He’s been trying to do this in the Boston area, but GMs aren’t biting. I don’t understand. Do you think that he doesn’t need surgery, and is actually healthy? How will GMs become convinced that he is healthy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 30 minutes ago, SDS said: How is someone who needs surgery to play hockey, who hasn’t had that surgery, going to be on the ice in training camp to show that he’s healthy? Added to your comments if Jack hasn't had whatever surgery that is chosen when training camp starts then his season may be in jeopardy. If he is not dealt the current position of the organization is that it is not going to approve the player's preferred surgery which supposedly has a shorter rehab period. My understanding is if he undergoes the fusion surgery the reported recovery time is 4 months. If you add this time to the mostly missed season last year then you are talking about a player who has not not played for nearly a year and a half. That extended period of time being on the shelf is going to add time preparing to play. There are many people who believed that the GM should only deal Jack if he can get full value. At least for this offseason that shipped has sailed. Because he is a damaged player that is not going to happen. The choice is to get whatever you can get or hold on to him with the hope that he can regain his health and value. It's a tough call for the GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 10 hours ago, In The Buff said: Saw a stream on youtube going over possible 3 way trade scenarios for Jack & since its so quiet I figured i'd share the screenshots to see what you all thought. Another thing to consider with 3 way deals is that they generally would involve only one team that really wants Eichel, otherwise the other team is settling and helping the other team to get the player they really want. Vegas, Ducks, Wild all would like Eichel. So why would they instead help the Rangers to get Eichel? A Zibanejad extension won't be cheap. I could see a 3 way deal with Minnesota getting some extra assets if they decide they need to move Fiala and/or Kaprizov because of high salary demands and the inability to sign both long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Jaeger Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 10 hours ago, In The Buff said: Saw a stream on youtube going over possible 3 way trade scenarios for Jack & since its so quiet I figured i'd share the screenshots to see what you all thought. Only one I’d consider is the Wild deal, and only if they switched Jones with Schneider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 We are officially entering a 2 week window where I've been predicting a trade is most likely to happen (mid-August). 🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 This thread is exhausting, nauseating and depressing. Quite the trifecta. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 4 hours ago, SDS said: How is someone who needs surgery to play hockey, who hasn’t had that surgery, going to be on the ice in training camp to show that he’s healthy? Conservative treatment for herniated discs is observation. As of now, we really don’t know if his herniation has resolved (according to Jack, it hasn’t) but none of us have examined his medical records. We do know that Jack is already skating. And yes, skating and taking hits is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Curt said: I don’t understand. Do you think that he doesn’t need surgery, and is actually healthy? How will GMs become convinced that he is healthy? He may be. We really don’t know. His medical records will need to be reviewed and he’ll need a physical by the acquiring team. But, I can’t recall a physical happening before a trade, although they are always contingent on one. These are usually done after a trade has been announced, but before they are officially completed. We always hear of trades falling apart due to failed physicals, but these are after the trades have been announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabills Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 11 hours ago, thewookie1 said: Not one of those trades works well whatsoever. In every trade listed the Sabres get a mess of pieces with mediocre value. The Sens one is surprisingly the only one that even gives us more than a few pennies they found outside a store. prepare yourself for that to be the outcome, it usually is in these cases. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 33 minutes ago, kas23 said: He may be. We really don’t know. His medical records will need to be reviewed and he’ll need a physical by the acquiring team. But, I can’t recall a physical happening before a trade, although they are always contingent on one. These are usually done after a trade has been announced, but before they are officially completed. We always hear of trades falling apart due to failed physicals, but these are after the trades have been announced. Right, I agree on everything you said regarding physicals. Even still, you aren’t going to fool another GM. Sooner or later the information would be there that this guy (who everyone says needs surgery) isn’t healthy. (shocker, I know). But beyond that, it doesn’t make any sense to think that Eichel is healthy right now. If Eichel was healthy right now and didn’t need surgery, don’t you think that he, his agents, and Kevin Adams would all be screaming it from the rooftops? It would make it a heck of a lot easier to trade him, and that seems to be something that everyone wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 1 hour ago, inkman said: This thread is exhausting, nauseating and depressing. Quite the trifecta. Yes to all the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cityo'Rasmii Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: Yes to all the above. Yes, yes and yes. As if my team didnt make me drink to begin with, innit? Go Sabres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 46 minutes ago, Curt said: Right, I agree on everything you said regarding physicals. Even still, you aren’t going to fool another GM. Sooner or later the information would be there that this guy (who everyone says needs surgery) isn’t healthy. (shocker, I know). But beyond that, it doesn’t make any sense to think that Eichel is healthy right now. If Eichel was healthy right now and didn’t need surgery, don’t you think that he, his agents, and Kevin Adams would all be screaming it from the rooftops? It would make it a heck of a lot easier to trade him, and that seems to be something that everyone wants. He’s obviously healthy, given he’s skating with fellow NHLers. That isn’t exactly open family skate at the local rink. Here’s the issue though. Once patients start getting disc herniations, even if they self-resolve, they are prone to recur. Even if it’s resolved now, it’s statistically likely to come back, especially for a player of high impact sport. This may be why Jack wants an ADR (a cure for that spinal level). The “trick” comment was made tongue-in-cheek, as I don’t think they’ll be tricked. But, I don’t think we can deny the psychological impact of seeing Jack in games will have. It may be a moot point though. Even if Jack wanted to show off (as he’s probably doing now), the Sabres will likely shut him down for fear of re-injury or a different injury altogether. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 1 hour ago, kas23 said: He’s obviously healthy, given he’s skating with fellow NHLers. That isn’t exactly open family skate at the local rink. Here’s the issue though. Once patients start getting disc herniations, even if they self-resolve, they are prone to recur. Even if it’s resolved now, it’s statistically likely to come back, especially for a player of high impact sport. This may be why Jack wants an ADR (a cure for that spinal level). The “trick” comment was made tongue-in-cheek, as I don’t think they’ll be tricked. But, I don’t think we can deny the psychological impact of seeing Jack in games will have. It may be a moot point though. Even if Jack wanted to show off (as he’s probably doing now), the Sabres will likely shut him down for fear of re-injury or a different injury altogether. I whole heartedly disagree. If he didn’t need surgery, everyone would say so. It would be in everyone’s best interest. Why do you think that Eichel, his agents, his doctor, and Kevyn Adams are all lying about him needing surgery?? Just because he is doing offseason skates/practices with other NHLers doesn’t mean that he doesn’t need surgery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 24 minutes ago, Curt said: I whole heartedly disagree. If he didn’t need surgery, everyone would say so. It would be in everyone’s best interest. Why do you think that Eichel, his agents, his doctor, and Kevyn Adams are all lying about him needing surgery?? Just because he is doing offseason skates/practices with other NHLers doesn’t mean that he doesn’t need surgery. Let's review the "injury"..... Feb 23rd, injured vs NJD. Scratched the next two games. Feb 28th, comes back to play the next 5 games, logging ~20min/gm. Mar 7th plays his last game of the season. Mar 9th, "out at least a week" - RK Mar 13th, "out for foreseeable future but not season ending" - RK It's been almost 6 months since the injury that he already returned to play from and was not expected to be season ending. I'm not a doctor, but shouldn't the initial evaluation/scan have revealed the severity of the injury? Just seems odd that the injury seemingly has become worse over time. Secondly, ADR has never been done on an NHL player. Has fusion? On a 24 year old? I'm just having a hard time believing he's first guy in the history of the NHL to require this type surgery to return to play.... especially considering he played 5 more games after the injury before shutting it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted August 10, 2021 Report Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, pi2000 said: Has fusion? On a 24 year old? I found this: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/neck-injury-ends-career-of-canucks-derek-dorsett-1.4426268 Quote Given the seriousness of this [disc fusion] case, as well as the lack of precedent in the NHL, there is no timeline on Dorsett’s return. Then I went back further and found this: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/neck-injury-ends-career-of-canucks-derek-dorsett-1.4426268 The season after he had the fusion surgery, he retired. I went looking for reports about NHLers with disc fusion surgery and returning to play. Once I got past all the Eichel stories, that of Derek Dorsett was pretty much the rest of the search. Now maybe his story is there because it had a back outcome, but now I wonder if even the fusion surgery could be career limiting? Edited August 10, 2021 by Doohickie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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