COSabreFan Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Weave said: This might be in the worst possible interests for the team. The team needs to protect that asset absolutely. My questions: Wondering how much value that asset still has currently and going forward? Is his value more likely to decrease or increase with time given current situation? Whats the value to the organization to not have to deal with this anymore and be able to just move on? Edited July 31, 2021 by COSabreFan 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 8 minutes ago, Weave said: This might be in the worst possible interests for the team. The team needs to protect that asset absolutely. I would honestly hold and wait for a good return. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 A missing piece in all of this is the status of the healing process. Is it any better? What do the scans look like now? If it's slowly healing then waiting another 3-4 months isn't a big deal. Maybe that's why team doctors changed their mind and recommend giving it more time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 1 minute ago, LGR4GM said: I would honestly hold and wait for a good return. Just go and get the surgery and we'll void your contrat if it doesn't work is a good way to throw a wrench into the works if your plan is to wait for a good return. No surgery is the right call if your position is wait and hold. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 Just now, Weave said: Just go and get the surgery and we'll void your contrat if it doesn't work is a good way to throw a wrench into the works if your plan is to wait for a good return. No surgery is the right call if your position is wait and hold. That is my position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, pi2000 said: A missing piece in all of this is the status of the healing process. Is it any better? What do the scans look like now? If it's slowly healing then waiting another 3-4 months isn't a big deal. Maybe that's why team doctors changed their mind and recommend giving it more time. He's playing hockey so he can't be hurt that bad.. I know if I was in his Position I wouldn't be risking my good years for a pickup hockey game 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Weave said: Just go and get the surgery and we'll void your contrat if it doesn't work is a good way to throw a wrench into the works if your plan is to wait for a good return. No surgery is the right call if your position is wait and hold. It’s really the only card for the team. On the other hand, Jack can just go ahead and decide his future and getting it done and disregard the teams wishes. (unless there’s an actual penalty beyond a terminated contract). The bottom line is if he is hell-bent on this to continue his career, if I am him, I would just go ahead and get the surgery and cross my fingers I come back with no issues. If it doesn’t work he’s not playing anyway so he doesn’t care beyond losing $50M, but he already has something like $40 million. If it does work then a trade can be more easily be had. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kr632 Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 26 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Just a week ago his agent said he was fine. Today his head is ready to fall off without surgery. Which is the lie? Disc injuries can be like that. There's good days and bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: That is my position. That conflicts with the first post of yours that I quoted. 13 minutes ago, SDS said: It’s really the only card for the team. On the other hand, Jack can just go ahead and decide his future and getting it done and disregard the teams wishes. (unless there’s an actual penalty beyond a terminated contract). The bottom line is if he is hell-bent on this to continue his career, if I am him, I would just go ahead and get the surgery and cross my fingers I come back with no issues. If it doesn’t work he’s not playing anyway so he doesn’t care beyond losing $50M, but he already has something like $40 million. If it does work then a trade can be more easily be had. Boy, that would turn into a nightmare regarding how contracts and team control of medical decisions are dealt with. I wonder if those clauses are essentially toothless but haven't been challenged yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Weave said: That conflicts with the first post of yours that I quoted. Yes, because I was thinking out loud. I have now said that I think we should wait and that is the position I stand by. Wait until the trade is acceptable because we can't ROR this crap again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: He's playing hockey so he can't be hurt that bad.. I know if I was in his Position I wouldn't be risking my good years for a pickup hockey game He's skating and playing pickup hockey where there is no hitting. Of course he is injured and not fully healthy. He needs surgery before he can play again. The issue right now is which surgery is the best course of treatment to get him back to being able to play again. The idea that because he is skating that he can play NHL hockey is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 21 minutes ago, SDS said: It’s really the only card for the team. On the other hand, Jack can just go ahead and decide his future and getting it done and disregard the teams wishes. (unless there’s an actual penalty beyond a terminated contract). The bottom line is if he is hell-bent on this to continue his career, if I am him, I would just go ahead and get the surgery and cross my fingers I come back with no issues. If it doesn’t work he’s not playing anyway so he doesn’t care beyond losing $50M, but he already has something like $40 million. If it does work then a trade can be more easily be had. But does it void the Sabres claim to him? If he comes out of surgery 100% the Sabres can choose not to void and still trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Youth Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 If he has the surgery now he really can’t be traded until they can measure his recovery from it. Maybe refusing to allow the surgery has always been about wanting to trade him, not the medical concern. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 Just now, Cascade Youth said: If he has the surgery now he really can’t be traded until they can measure his recovery from it. Maybe refusing to allow the surgery has always been about wanting to trade him, not the medical concern. I think they haven't allowed the surgery because they are trying to trade him. It is why an RFA you are trading might not get a contract until post trade because you want the receiving team to make that decisions on their assets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Youth Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 Just now, LGR4GM said: I think they haven't allowed the surgery because they are trying to trade him. It is why an RFA you are trading might not get a contract until post trade because you want the receiving team to make that decisions on their assets. Right that’s what I’m saying but you’re saying it better. They decided last year they were trading him and once he gets the surgery he’s a frozen asset for at least 1-2 months and a potentially damaged asset depending on how the recovery goes. They’ve never been worried about the risks of the surgery as it relates to him playing for the Sabres. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said: If he has the surgery now he really can’t be traded until they can measure his recovery from it. Maybe refusing to allow the surgery has always been about wanting to trade him, not the medical concern. This is what I think it is 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, JohnC said: He's skating and playing pickup hockey where there is no hitting. Of course he is injured and not fully healthy. He needs surgery before he can play again. The issue right now is which surgery is the best course of treatment to get him back to being able to play again. The idea that because he is skating that he can play NHL hockey is ludicrous. Anything can happen in a pickup hockey game It's pretty ridiculous that his agent is even letting him play the game when he needs surgery 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believer Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Yes, because I was thinking out loud. I have now said that I think we should wait and that is the position I stand by. Wait until the trade is acceptable because we can't ROR this crap again. KA can send him home… Let Eichel continue the healing and play beer hockey with his pals… If he stays in shape, more than likely a team on the cusp of the playoffs or making a run for the Cup will be willing to meet KAs deal… if he passes their medical… and doesn’t self-destruct in the meantime… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etiennep99 Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Curt said: I totally agree with the bolded. He even kind of contradicted himself by saying that he doesn’t recommend it for football players because they experience head to head blunt force hits, but then he talks about how great it is for UFC fighters. Guys who get punched/elbowed/kicked/kneed in the head and potentially dropped on their head/neck. So is it safe for people who will experience blunt force impacts to the head or not? He also said one line about the nature of the game of hockey, that “the ice allows the physics in order for the head to move more freely, you know, take less impact.” I was like WTF is he talking about? Hockey is played on a hard ice surface, surrounded by hard board and glass walls. If your head gets slammed against any of those, I don’t think the physics are going be in your favor. Head on head is not the same as head bobble. Head on head is compression of the artificial disc. Being plastic, it probably isn't best to squash down on it. But being plastic, it's smooth enough to allow wobble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) He’ll likely change his mind on getting the surgery once he’s traded. We get less assets in a trade because of the uncertainty of the outcome of surgery and Jacks new team keeps their best assets to play with Jack. Happy Jack. Edited July 31, 2021 by bunomatic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etiennep99 Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: Anything can happen in a pickup hockey game It's pretty ridiculous that his agent is even letting him play the game when he needs surgery As Jack's doc said, it's important for Jack to stay in shape and keep his motor skills. Playing non-contact should also give Jack a good sense of how much function has returned, to help decide if he truly wants to go ahead with surgery. How many players herniate their discs every year (and we hear about it)? Hopefully this is a rare injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, etiennep99 said: Head on head is not the same as head bobble. Head on head is compression of the artificial disc. Being plastic, it probably isn't best to squash down on it. But being plastic, it's smooth enough to allow wobble. Correct. I never said differently. But how is head on head blunt force trauma from football different than fist/kick/knee on head blunt force trauma from MMA? That’s what I was saying. Edited July 31, 2021 by Curt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etiennep99 Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said: Right that’s what I’m saying but you’re saying it better. They decided last year they were trading him and once he gets the surgery he’s a frozen asset for at least 1-2 months and a potentially damaged asset depending on how the recovery goes. They’ve never been worried about the risks of the surgery as it relates to him playing for the Sabres. In other words, they don't care so much about Jack the person as they care about Jack the asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etiennep99 Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, Curt said: Correct. I never said differently. But how is head on head blunt force trauma from football different than fist/kick/knee on head blunt force trauma from MMA? That’s what I was saying. For the record, I think that Weidman is crazy. MMA is crazy enough, but trying to play again after "breaking" his neck is super crazy. In the video link, Weidman actually says that the surgery scared him (but fighting MMA doesn't). Crazy. I still suspect that football tackles with head first are more impactful, but I doubt that any real studies have been done to settle the matter. You might be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetlou Posted July 31, 2021 Report Share Posted July 31, 2021 KA needs to hold his stance and see if any other GM gives up what the Sabres want until training camp. If there is no deal done have Jack sit and keep "rehabbing" all year. Just don't allow him around the team, let him stay in Boston for all I care. See what happens around TDL and see if any team is willing to give up the desired assets Buffalo wants! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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