Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[kas23]

8 hours ago, Curt said:

Nah, because they then went ahead and spent as much as they possibly could on Free Agents.

At the Botterill firing presser, Terry made it abundantly clear that he wanted the Sabres to become a more “leaner”, “more efficient” team. Carolina may or may not have come up as an example, which is a team having success with a much lower budget. It even sounded like he was extending this “efficiency” to the roster as well. 
 

Yes, they did sign Hall, but against Hall’s wishes, only for 1 year. They wouldn’t even sign Rhino for more than a year. My guess is that Terry wanted to cut costs, including Jack, upon Adams being hired. Instead, Adams talks him off the ledge and asks for just 1 year to right the ship. One last hurrah before blowing it up. This leads to the 1 year signings. 
 

Lastly, and perhaps the biggest proof is that Terry has do this before. ROR was another 1C jettisoned. Was it a hockey decision to trade him before the bonus had to be paid? We supposedly had much more attractive offers if we had paid the bonus. Yes, there were other issues and I don’t want to minimize them, but money seemed the highest priority in that trade, not hockey sense. 

[DarthEbriate]

22 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

and what hope did the Sabres give you from 2007 to 2013?  a miraculous play-off run IF they were lucky enough to get into the last spot?

For myself, the hope is that it's still a veteran roster and most importantly, they had the goaltending. Drafting poorly, Leino... gah. (I still love the Ehrhoff signing and cap hit,just not the front-loading that turned it into a horrible contract.) You get into the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. We've seen wild runs before and underdogs advance a couple rounds all the time. (You could get a Hamburglar/Binnington playing lights-out, you could get a team missing a bunch of key players, you could win on some bounces in OT.) But if you don't give your team the opportunity to even make the playoffs, then you're casting all hope solely to the future that isn't even there yet.

And of course, the tank was successful. The hope was rightfully there and re-established around a new youthful core.

11 minutes ago, SwampD said:

A hope to not watch the worst hockey imaginable?

This team just gives its assets away to the rest of the league for nothing and wonders why it sucks. They didn't learn from Mogilny, Hasek, Peca, Drury, Briere, the blood letting of the Tank, Kane, ROR,... And now we want to do it with the tankfruit!?

When you have talent, you keep talent and try to get more. You don't blame it for losing and get rid of it, then HOPE that the next roll of the dice is the answer. HOPE is not a strategy.

Whatever. 

Hope can never be the strategy. It must always be there... whether you're the #1 team in the league or the #32. You can expect to compete for a championship, but the expectation of a championship is also not a strategy (and is unfounded because of how these seasons and the playoffs in the NHL play out).

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Well since I get yelled out constantly about prospects... I flipped my ship when we lost the chance to get Brock Boeser. I was right. 

We had him right in our sights. (Or White or Samsonov or Beauvillier, etc.)

[Weave]

Just now, Thorny said:

Being an Eichel supporter does not equal being a supporter of the tank.

Believing they made their jobs far too difficult because of the scorched-earth mentality they took on, yet still capable of results far from THIS putrid since, is also possible. 

I don't have any particularly strong emotions about Jack either way. I don’t find him a particularly likable player, but don’t dislike him either.  I suspect he’s not a team guy, but he’s gifted enough that it is overcomeable (is that a word) with good leadership and enough talent.  I don’t need to see him go, but I’m not at all convinced it’s automatically a bad thing if he does.

I probably trust KAs judgement regarding whether he fits the mold for the team going forward more than any other GM Jack has had.

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, Weave said:

And I can’t keep everyone straight lol

On 6/16/2021 at 11:11 AM, Weave said:

You’re doing God’s work, Thorny.

 

And LOL at my iphone attempting to autocorrect God with Hodgson.

Still on your side lol

 

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

I don't have any particularly strong emotions about Jack either way. I don’t find him a particularly likable player, but don’t dislike him either.  I suspect he’s not a team guy, but he’s gifted enough that it is overcomeable (is that a word) with good leadership and enough talent.  I don’t need to see him go, but I’m not at all convinced it’s automatically a bad thing if he does.

I probably trust KAs judgement regarding whether he fits the mold for the team going forward more than any other GM Jack has had.

Maybe we can agree on the return - you aren't outwardly opposed to dealing him, would you be ok with a heavily futures based return?

Edited June 18, 2021 by Thorny

[Weave]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Still on your side lol

 

It’s 3:20 and I’m 2 whiskeys in.  I’ll go with that excuse.

[Thorny]

Oh and the bold above: that's only cause you've seen so much less of KA 😉

[Crusader1969]

37 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Why is 3rd through 10th place in the east worse than what we've done the last ten years, and why is it that other teams don't tank and can do better than this? Why is it our destiny if we don't enter "Tank 2"?

the goal is to win the cup..that team was getting older and needed to be rebuilt..that team that came first went out meekly in Rd 1

You want to be the Leafs? 

[DarthEbriate]

22 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Winning shootouts with Vanek's in close slapper

Watching the population of Pominville go up and Rick's fantastic call therin

The Jordan Leopold crease goal against the Leafs. Dominating the leafs. 

Ennis OT goal vs Philly

Miller's heroics and a division win

Vanek's hat tricks...

Miss it. 

I always forget that Leopold scored that one. I just always [edit: remember it as] thought it was simply Foligno willing the puck in via Komisarek completely losing his head.

Edited June 18, 2021 by DarthEbriate

[nucci]

6 minutes ago, kas23 said:

At the Botterill firing presser, Terry made it abundantly clear that he wanted the Sabres to become a more “leaner”, “more efficient” team. Carolina may or may not have come up as an example, which is a team having success with a much lower budget. It even sounded like he was extending this “efficiency” to the roster as well. 
 

Yes, they did sign Hall, but against Hall’s wishes, only for 1 year. They wouldn’t even sign Rhino for more than a year. My guess is that Terry wanted to cut costs, including Jack, upon Adams being hired. Instead, Adams talks him off the ledge and asks for just 1 year to right the ship. One last hurrah before blowing it up. This leads to the 1 year signings. 
 

Lastly, and perhaps the biggest proof is that Terry has do this before. ROR was another 1C jettisoned. Was it a hockey decision to trade him before the bonus had to be paid? We supposedly had much more attractive offers if we had paid the bonus. Yes, there were other issues and I don’t want to minimize them, but money seemed the highest priority in that trade, not hockey sense. 

it does seem that Pegula doesn't want to pay the high salaries

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Still on your side lol

 

Maybe we can agree on the return - you aren't outwardly opposed to dealing him, would you be ok with a heavily futures based return?

Ugh.  I need to see a veteran top 6 C in the return.

ideally I want the return for Jack to fill a couple of key holes.

Then again, I have an irrational hatred for lottery ticket trades after 10 years of them.

[Crusader1969]

20 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Winning shootouts with Vanek's in close slapper

Watching the population of Pominville go up and Rick's fantastic call therin

The Jordan Leopold crease goal against the Leafs. Dominating the leafs. 

Ennis OT goal vs Philly

Miller's heroics and a division win

Vanek's hat tricks...

Miss it. 

I miss the 05-06 team, I miss the late ninety's when Hasek was in net and you had hope you could take you to the finals.

I miss the days of Perreault in 1980, when they were heavy favorites to beat the Islanders in the Semi's

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

the goal is to win the cup..that team was getting older and needed to be rebuilt..that team that came first went out meekly in Rd 1

You want to be the Leafs? 

Then rebuild, not burn the ***** down.

[Crusader1969]

38 minutes ago, SwampD said:

A hope to not watch the worst hockey imaginable?

This team just gives its assets away to the rest of the league for nothing and wonders why it sucks. They didn't learn from Mogilny, Hasek, Peca, Drury, Briere, the blood letting of the Tank, Kane, ROR,... And now we want to do it with the tankfruit!?

When you have talent, you keep talent and try to get more. You don't blame it for losing and get rid of it, then HOPE that the next roll of the dice is the answer. HOPE is not a strategy.

Whatever. 

so you want to totally forget the day both Drury and Briere left? 

[Sabel79]

Just now, nucci said:

it does seem that Pegula doesn't want to pay the high salaries

Not for nothing, but the team can obviously finish DFL with a much lower payroll.  Makes solid business sense.  
 

 

[Crusader1969]

34 minutes ago, Eleven said:

They won the division in one of them, and made the playoffs in another.

and lost in round 1 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

Ugh.  I need to see a veteran top 6 C in the return.

ideally I want the return for Jack to fill a couple of key holes.

Then again, I have an irrational hatred for lottery ticket trades after 10 years of them.

I'm in the same place. If KA thinks he can deal Jack and make this team better next year: I disagree with him, but it's not a philosophical difference, I'll be very disappointed about Jack but, it's always about the crest, in the end. It's easy to get over. 

If he's embarking on a build to the extent where playoffs are an afterthought for a couple years, it's a much, much bleaker outlook in my opinion and so much more difficult for me to reconcile. 

[DarthEbriate]

3 minutes ago, nucci said:

it does seem that Pegula doesn't want to pay the high salaries

Then he needs to stop authorizing paying top-dollar on the UFA market to get the likes of Leino, Ehrhoff, Moulson, Skinner, and Hall (and then buy them out). Instead, go get a Tyler Toffoli + Jake Allen combo. But that's not sexy.

Maybe TPeg just read lately that none of the remaining teams in the playoffs has a double-digit million dollar salary on its roster. That'll be the shiny new focus.

[Crusader1969]

12 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

For myself, the hope is that it's still a veteran roster and most importantly, they had the goaltending. Drafting poorly, Leino... gah. (I still love the Ehrhoff signing and cap hit,just not the front-loading that turned it into a horrible contract.) You get into the playoffs and let the chips fall where they may. We've seen wild runs before and underdogs advance a couple rounds all the time. (You could get a Hamburglar/Binnington playing lights-out, you could get a team missing a bunch of key players, you could win on some bounces in OT.) But if you don't give your team the opportunity to even make the playoffs, then you're casting all hope solely to the future that isn't even there yet.

And of course, the tank was successful. The hope was rightfully there and re-established around a new youthful core.

Hope can never be the strategy. It must always be there... whether you're the #1 team in the league or the #32. You can expect to compete for a championship, but the expectation of a championship is also not a strategy (and is unfounded because of how these seasons and the playoffs in the NHL play out).

We had him right in our sights. (Or White or Samsonov or Beauvillier, etc.)

100%

[Weave]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I'm in the same place. If KA thinks he can deal Jack and make this team better next year: I disagree with him, but it's not a philosophical difference, I'll be very disappointed about Jack but, it's always about the crest, in the end. It's easy to get over. 

If he's embarking on a build to the extent where playoffs are an afterthought for a couple years, it's a much, much bleaker outlook in my opinion and so much more difficult for me to reconcile. 

See, I genuinely believe that we can be better without Jack.  It will require a few holes get filled, and it will require a competent 1C by committee. And it will require a couple key kids deliver.

Thats a few ifs, but Jack being Jack, due to desire to be here or health, is a pretty big if too.

And I believe a healthier team culture can be a strong factor.  I definitely lean in the direction of Jack not positively affecting that.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Weave

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I miss the 05-06 team, I miss the late ninety's when Hasek was in net and you had hope you could take you to the finals.

I miss the days of Perreault in 1980, when they were heavy favorites to beat the Islanders in the Semi's

I miss those times, too.

But the gap in enjoyment level from 05-06 to the years we'd be entertaining all year and fight for the playoffs, is, for me, much, much smaller than the gap between what we've been forced to sit through since the tank, and the years we fought valiantly for a playoff spot. 

8 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

the goal is to win the cup..that team was getting older and needed to be rebuilt..that team that came first went out meekly in Rd 1

You want to be the Leafs? 

The amount of enjoyment fans of that team have gotten over the last several years is order of magnitudes greater than what we've gotten. The disappointment of losing at the end is a moment. They got to be excited and engaged by the product all season. 

I suppose I just disagree the goal should be the Cup. They should stop putting the cart before the horse and focus on building a team that can just make the playoffs. Then build from there. 

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

See, I genuinely believe that we can be better without Jack.  It will require a few holes get filled, and it will require a competent 1C by committee. And it will require a couple key kids deliver.

Thats a few ifs, but Jack being Jack, due to desire to be here or health, is a pretty big if too.

Guess we need to wait and see what the return is, then. Let's see some pieces ready to fill key holes. 

[DarthEbriate]

12 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

and lost in round 1 

Yes. And it was a disappointment both times. (Gah... Vanek's leg... ). But that's also just the way it goes once you make the playoffs. TBL lost in the first round against Columbus a few years ago. In '05-'06, Detroit lost in the first round (while we were a juggernaut 4 seed). In 1998-1999 we were the 7 seed, in 97-98 we were the 6 seed. Just gotta get to the playoffs -- then live it day-by-day.

[SwampD]

34 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

so you want to totally forget the day both Drury and Briere left? 

My post states that I want the exact opposite.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

and what hope did the Sabres give you from 2007 to 2013?  a miraculous play-off run IF they were lucky enough to get into the last spot?

The hope is that you can build from that respectable place and get better.  You can make a smart trade or draft a really really good player at 20th overall who becomes a star.  Teams actually do things like that

[nfreeman]

 

5 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

That he wants to win? 

5 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

I'll listen i'm all yours tell me whats wrong 

Both of these are obnoxious.  
 

4 hours ago, Mustache of God said:

I'd give Okposo the "C" in his last two years and let new leaders develop in that time. By then we'll have a new coach/GM combo and they can give the C to whoever is still around.

No thanks on KO.  The captain cannot be that bad of a player IMHO.

 

Separately:  I think the injury is being overlooked as a driving factor of the apparent decision to move on from Eichel.  I will also say that if KA has decided to move Jack solely for cultural reasons, I disagree strongly with the decision, unless Jack is really one of those rare guys that no one can stand to be around.