Sabres Trade Taylor Hall (50% of His Salary Retained)and Curtis Lazar to Boston for a 2021 2nd and Anders Bjork

[Sabre fan]

Sportsnet had the following on their website...

 

Heading "Bruins take advantage of Sabres"...

Buffalo’s inexperienced front office will take more heat this week when the trade deadline’s ledgers get tallied up.

All told, Adams has dispatched Hall, Lazar, Eric Staal and Brandon Montour in exchange for a second-rounder, two third-rounders, a fifth-rounder and Bjork.

By comparison: The other big seller, Columbus Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekalainen, has recouped two first-rounders, a third-rounder, a fourth-rounder and a seventh-rounder for Nick Foligno, David Savard and an injured Riley Nash.

  Any way you prefer to look at this, and whether you like or dislike KA this year has not been pretty for him. he has signed some awful players to bad contracts and at the end of the day has done nothing to improve the team. We are wining with players already in the system and on the big team. We seriously need experience running the team and coaching as well.

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

A quick look at her profile shows she’s a pretty in-touch hockey analyst with 21,000 people who are interested enough in what she has to say to follow her. Let’s be better than “who is this person I disagree with their opinion doesn’t matter because I didn’t know her name?”

I'm with inky here. I've never read an impressive hockey take on twitter, even (especially?) from people who know what a regression is

Edited April 12, 2021 by Randall Flagg

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, Curt said:

Or is he next year’s Thompson???  I don’t have a clue, but we all watched Thompson and we were pretty sure he sucked, now he looks decent.

Closer to thompson than eakin.  The difference is he's this years thompson, not 3 years ago thompson where we thought he could be good.  We are aware we are trading for a bottom 6 forward who struggles backchecking.  On the plus side thats usually the last part of a skill players development.  

[JohnC]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't care where Reinhart was drafted. I care that he is a durable and reliable 50pt player year in and year out who doesn't hurt you defensively and can be slotted in your top 6. I don't need him to be a "star" player at this point because I still need "role players" like Reinhart for the team to be good. 

I simply don't understand the disregard for a player who has been our most reliable player for the past number of years. (As you noted.) He's not a star and never will be. But he is one of the smartest and consistent players in the league playing on a team that every year seems to be overhauled. He is the epitome of consistency in an unstable environment. He may or may not be a player who drives a line but he is an anchor player playing in a historically rudderless organization. As a player and teammate he should be appreciated more. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

I simply don't understand the disregard for a player who has been our most reliable player for the past number of years. (As you noted.) He's not a star and never will be. But he is one of the smartest and consistent players in the league playing on a team that every year seems to be overhauled. He is the epitome of consistency in an unstable environment. He may or may not be a player who drives a line but he is an anchor player playing in a historically rudderless organization. As a player and teammate he should be appreciated more. 

Honestly at this point I hope he gets traded. Sam deserves better then this organization.

3 minutes ago, Sabre fan said:

Sportsnet had the following on their website...

Heading "Bruins take advantage of Sabres"...

Buffalo’s inexperienced front office will take more heat this week when the trade deadline’s ledgers get tallied up.

All told, Adams has dispatched Hall, Lazar, Eric Staal and Brandon Montour in exchange for a second-rounder, two third-rounders, a fifth-rounder and Bjork.

By comparison: The other big seller, Columbus Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekalainen, has recouped two first-rounders, a third-rounder, a fourth-rounder and a seventh-rounder for Nick Foligno, David Savard and an injured Riley Nash.

  Any way you prefer to look at this, and whether you like or dislike KA this year has not been pretty for him. he has signed some awful players to bad contracts and at the end of the day has done nothing to improve the team. We are wining with players already in the system and on the big team. We seriously need experience running the team and coaching as well.

You want to see the difference in front offices, I think this does a really nice job of showing an experienced GM pulling out all the stops and Adams just pulling out. 

[Sabre fan]

often overlooked is Sam;s ability to stay healthy as well..does not miss many games and is very consistent...he is far better then the team has apparently thought of him nickle and diming him while giving stiffs like Hall and even Skinner crazy amounts if cash...

Edited April 12, 2021 by Sabre fan

[SDS]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Honestly at this point I hope he gets traded. Sam deserves better then this organization.

You want to see the difference in front offices, I think this does a really nice job of showing an experienced GM pulling out all the stops and Adams just pulling out. 

Do you have an answer to anything I posted in this topic? can you explain why, after Hall services have been available for the last month, that this was the offer that was taken? Do you have an answer for why no one else bid a larger amount?

Do you know how much the NMC affected this?

[DarthEbriate]

8 minutes ago, SDS said:

Dude. Seriously? Play Hall for the rest of the year is a better option?  To what end?

Power play assists, power play zone entries, the occasional breakaway shot that... bounces harmlessly into the corner. The "Hall 1st Overall Pick Perk". Some basic entertainment value.

Hall for a 2nd should've been the trade and off we go. (Or wait until later in the day to see if Boston blinks.) But if the only other option is to actually take on salary to lose the only forward grit we have (who also takes OT faceoffs, will defend teammates), for another --- as folks have said up-thread ERod comparable? No thanks. We can call up that guy from the AHL for spot duty next season.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I am a Taylor Hall fan.  I think he is an excellent winger in the NHL.  Not elite.

It became clear as the season went on that his heart (and Hart) were not in it, especially when it became clear that his *friend* was not going to be the coach any more.

What was the market going to show for a disgruntled scoring winger that was not scoring?  A second rounder was reasonable.

The salary retention means nothing really.  The season in more than half over, so the Sabres have already paid about $4 million, so they are retaining about $2 million on the cap for a few months.  

I like Curtis a lot, but he was not going to be part of the long-term future of the Sabres.  The guy they got in exchange just may be.

It is clear that there really was no market for Hall.  I really think that KA did a very good job on this trade.

I would have rather given Hall one more year and he may actually sign a contract in Buffalo for next year, but that would be somewhat surprising to me at this point.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, SDS said:

Do you have an answer to anything I posted in this topic? can you explain why, after Hall services have been available for the last month, that this was the offer that was taken? Do you have an answer for why no one else bid a larger amount?

Do you know how much the NMC affected this?

Do you want to build a snowman? 

[Randall Flagg]

14 minutes ago, Sabre fan said:

Sportsnet had the following on their website...

 

Heading "Bruins take advantage of Sabres"...

Buffalo’s inexperienced front office will take more heat this week when the trade deadline’s ledgers get tallied up.

All told, Adams has dispatched Hall, Lazar, Eric Staal and Brandon Montour in exchange for a second-rounder, two third-rounders, a fifth-rounder and Bjork.

By comparison: The other big seller, Columbus Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekalainen, has recouped two first-rounders, a third-rounder, a fourth-rounder and a seventh-rounder for Nick Foligno, David Savard and an injured Riley Nash.

  Any way you prefer to look at this, and whether you like or dislike KA this year has not been pretty for him. he has signed some awful players to bad contracts and at the end of the day has done nothing to improve the team. We are wining with players already in the system and on the big team. We seriously need experience running the team and coaching as well.

Hockey media told me the Sabres got good value for ROR. Who cares what their headlines say? Maybe Hall turns it around for them, but he was horrendous here, and the return will serve the Sabres better than he did just by virtue of the return not being Taylor Hall

[SDS]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Do you want to build a snowman? 

You seem to have answers for a lot of things. I’m wondering if you would be willing to answer me?

[SDS]

Has anyone heard anything from Taylor Hall? Was he willing to go anywhere or just a couple select teams? Despite any implications otherwise, Taylor Hall had the final authority on this trade. It is impossible to be definitive on this trade without knowing that critical piece of information.

He literally could’ve said I will not go anywhere other than Boston (he probably didn’t, it’s just an example). 

[Drag0nDan]

2 minutes ago, SDS said:

Do you have an answer to anything I posted in this topic? can you explain why, after Hall services have been available for the last month, that this was the offer that was taken? Do you have an answer for why no one else bid a larger amount?

Do you know how much the NMC affected this?

All it takes is a rumor trickle and him to decide where he wants to go for you to lose all your leverage.  Full NMC so he can choose his destination, UFA next year and you aren't bringing him back, and once he's chosen his spot the compensation eventually gets to a "take it or leave it" situation.  

[jsb]

I find it interesting that the biggest Hall detractors are now the most vociferous posters on only getting a #2 draft pick for him. He wasn't earning that 8M dollar contract. Bjork is a younger, faster, bigger and with more offensive upside than Lazar. He's not going to be a star but I think if you liked Lazar you'll like Bjork. Upside of this trading season is we just dumped 14.5M in salary. We now have a #1, (2) #2's, (2) #3s draft picks in the upcoming draft. I don't think we're going to miss any of the players traded so far. Judge this trade season as giving the Sabres more assets to work with and more money under the cap for an add and pay whatever salary upgrades that'll be due this year. The other thing is Boston isn't a lock for a playoff birth this year. They're struggling and the Rangers are getting better and may leap frog them by the end of the year. Boston wasn't going to give up their #1 pick. On the other hand Toronto and the Islanders have expectations to go far in the playoffs this year, that's the biggest difference in what was given up by those teams. 

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, SDS said:

Has anyone heard anything from Taylor Hall? Was he willing to go anywhere or just a couple select teams? Despite any implications otherwise, Taylor Hall had the final authority on this trade. It is impossible to be definitive on this trade without knowing that critical piece of information.

He literally could’ve said I will not go anywhere other than Boston (he probably didn’t, it’s just an example). 

He has to be involved in any trade discussions because of the clause.  I can't negotiate a big deal with someone for Hall to just be like, pass.  That's a surefire way to make other GM's not want to do business with you.

[Thorny]

56 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

No.  Foligno, who is a warrior with some skill, is a much more desirable commodity for a playoff run than Hall, who has looked terrible and useless all season.

 

Exactly.  This was a great move for the Leafs.

Frankly, if the Sabres had traded Hall for Foligno and given him an extension immediately, I would've been thrilled.

 

Do you seriously think the Bruins made the Sabres take Bjork?  I really doubt that -- I think the Sabres wanted a prospect with upside in the deal and the upgrade from Lazar to Bjork was the extra part of the price the Bruins paid for Hall.

He’s not a prospect no matter how many times you call him that 

[Randall Flagg]

I think there's merit to the worry that Kevyn doesn't have the skill/confidence/acumen to really maximize trade returns, and go about making NHL level trades in a way that will make this team better. He has such a small track record of trades that there is still some mystery.

Johansson for Staal - turned out not very well, but everyone seemed happy with it at the time, so I don't think this was obvious evidence against him
Staal for 3rd and 5th - better than I thought we would have gotten honestly
Montour for 3rd - seems about right
Hall trade

Importantly, the last three trades are deadline deals. I think the circumstances of any trade deadline automatically place enough leverage against selling teams that I don't use those trades to judge how good I think an NHL GM is at trading, unless you're talking about the extremes (getting a 1st for Goose was impressive even then). I always defended the Kane trade when others were mad at it because of this too, even though I think Jason was the back-breaker for this franchise's recent history. 

We have a pretty blank slate for Adams when it comes to the moves that need to happen this summer. There is a very real chance he cannot do it well and we are screwed, but I don't think this trade is evidence that that will happen.

Hall was utterly miserable this year, his only consistent skill was skating just fast enough to get too close to the defender too quick, losing the puck to said defender while a teammate was open in a passing lane. Other teams saw this too

I like Lazar, but I would have been disappointed if he was one of our 12 best forwards next year. See what Bjork does, and make sure next year's team is too good for a Lazar to crack 

[JoeSchmoe]

2 minutes ago, jsb said:

Bjork is a younger, faster, bigger and with more offensive upside than Lazar. He's not going to be a star but I think if you liked Lazar you'll like Bjork.

I really hope you're right. But I've really hated most of the role player guys we've picked up over the last bunch of years since the tank. Lazar might be the only exception.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, SDS said:

Do you have an answer to anything I posted in this topic? can you explain why, after Hall services have been available for the last month, that this was the offer that was taken? Do you have an answer for why no one else bid a larger amount?

Do you know how much the NMC affected this?

I think to answer some of what you asked that we can look around and see that other gms managed to get more for what appears to be less. 

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, jsb said:

I find it interesting that the biggest Hall detractors are now the most vociferous posters on only getting a #2 draft pick for him. He wasn't earning that 8M dollar contract. Bjork is a younger, faster, bigger and with more offensive upside than Lazar. He's not going to be a star but I think if you liked Lazar you'll like Bjork. Upside of this trading season is we just dumped 14.5M in salary. We now have a #1, (2) #2's, (2) #3s draft picks in the upcoming draft. I don't think we're going to miss any of the players traded so far. Judge this trade season as giving the Sabres more assets to work with and more money under the cap for an add and pay whatever salary upgrades that'll be due this year. The other thing is Boston isn't a lock for a playoff birth this year. They're struggling and the Rangers are getting better and may leap frog them by the end of the year. Boston wasn't going to give up their #1 pick. On the other hand Toronto and the Islanders have expectations to go far in the playoffs this year, that's the biggest difference in what was given up by those teams. 

He sucks - but he won a hart trophy so you should overpay for him.  Unfortunately the GM's trading for him likely watched him play this year - and most of his most recent games were during a historic losing streak where he looked terrible.  

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I think there's merit to the worry that Kevyn doesn't have the skill/confidence/acumen to really maximize trade returns, and go about making NHL level trades in a way that will make this team better. He has such a small track record of trades that there is still some mystery.

Johansson for Staal - turned out not very well, but everyone seemed happy with it at the time, so I don't think this was obvious evidence against him
Staal for 3rd and 5th - better than I thought we would have gotten honestly
Montour for 3rd - seems about right
Hall trade

Importantly, the last three trades are deadline deals. I think the circumstances of any trade deadline automatically place enough leverage against selling teams that I don't use those trades to judge how good I think an NHL GM is at trading, unless you're talking about the extremes (getting a 1st for Goose was impressive even then). I always defended the Kane trade when others were mad at it because of this too, even though I think Jason was the back-breaker for this franchise's recent history. 

We have a pretty blank slate for Adams when it comes to the moves that need to happen this summer. There is a very real chance he cannot do it well and we are screwed, but I don't think this trade is evidence that that will happen.

Hall was utterly miserable this year, his only consistent skill was skating just fast enough to get too close to the defender too quick, losing the puck to said defender while a teammate was open in a passing lane. Other teams saw this too

I like Lazar, but I would have been disappointed if he was one of our 12 best forwards next year. See what Bjork does, and make sure next year's team is too good for a Lazar to crack 

I agree with this, the trade isn’t evidence he CANT do it, yet he doesn’t have any trades yet signifying he CAN, either. He hasn’t completed a trade or signing yet id say was “good” and one that noticeably improved the team 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, SDS said:

You seem to have answers for a lot of things. I’m wondering if you would be willing to answer me?

Sorry, I was but got sidetracked by an email. I think I only can attempt to answer some of what you asked. 

[SDS]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think to answer some of what you asked that we can look around and see that other gms managed to get more for what appears to be less. 

If you could analyze Taylor Hall’s NMC, his cap hit and the specific market for a left-winger on the effects of the trade it would be greatly appreciated.

(Just so you don’t have to look it up, Toronto is paying Nick Foligno $1.375 million for the rest of the season). 

[Thorny]

36 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Not even remotely the same thing. 

Mitts - 22

Tage - 23

Rasmus the 3rd - 23

Lazar - 26

Bjork is also older than Thomson by more than a year with less draft pedigree if people care about that after the fact which varies 

15 minutes ago, SDS said:

Has anyone heard anything from Taylor Hall? Was he willing to go anywhere or just a couple select teams? Despite any implications otherwise, Taylor Hall had the final authority on this trade. It is impossible to be definitive on this trade without knowing that critical piece of information.

He literally could’ve said I will not go anywhere other than Boston (he probably didn’t, it’s just an example). 

They said on trade centre just now that Hall heavily pushed for Boston