JohnC Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: You are totally misreading and mischaracterizing what I said. Not much point in going over it again. Suffice it to say your "incongruent mixture of players" is the direct result of a lack of clear identity and comes about from building top down rather than bottom up. Lastly, falling back on thuggery vs. talent is a tired strawman argument. It's about balance, team spirit, and unity. Teams without it fail. Who doesn't agree with the importance of balance, team spirit and unity for team success? That's not a novel idea. It's like saying that mothers should be loved. Tell me something that I don't know. It's plainly evident to everyone that the Sabres have been a poorly run operation for a very long time. The constant changing of staffs and philosophies have kept this franchise deeply mired in the muck of mediocrity. Poor decisions stacked on top of poor decisions have deeply sunk this franchise. You don't have to be a hockey aficionado to recognize gross incompetence. The bottom line is that I fundamentally disagree with your resorting to the "old school" solutions to today's hockey failures. Looking back to function in the world of today is a recipe for continued failure. And I'm not buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 16 hours ago, dudacek said: I have no preferred choices, but Torterella (who I like) and Tocchet (who I don't) would be terrible choices for this group of players. Agree. Stick with Granato if those are the other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 6 hours ago, JohnC said: The bottom line is that I fundamentally disagree with your resorting to the "old school" solutions to today's hockey failures. Looking back to function in the world of today is a recipe for continued failure. And I'm not buying it. <sigh> One quick last try. It's not about going old school, but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. The game on the ice has changed, everybody knows that, but the dynamics of team building and what makes a successful organization have not. The point is, we, as a franchise did it the right way once upon a time and thus we need to look back and do those things (the ones that are still relevant in today's game, and there are many) again and the top needs to stop thinking they know some new better way. Hockey is still hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: <sigh> One quick last try. It's not about going old school, but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. The game on the ice has changed, everybody knows that, but the dynamics of team building and what makes a successful organization have not. The point is, we, as a franchise did it the right way once upon a time and thus we need to look back and do those things (the ones that are still relevant in today's game, and there are many) again and the top needs to stop thinking they know some new better way. Hockey is still hockey. I presume you mean ground-up: just acquire good players and assemble a good team. No more tanking - build to improve every single year. Each rebuild is limited in length and not an all-out tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) No Coach is gonna wanna come here Edited May 10, 2021 by Buffalonill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said: I presume you mean ground-up: just acquire good players and assemble a good team. No more tanking - build to improve every single year. Each rebuild is limited in length and not an all-out tank. Well given the Eichel comments there is a little tearing down required. You remove the old core and then build up around the youth and new players. New attitude. No prima donnas. Again, Ottawa is doing it right. Do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: Well given the Eichel comments there is a little tearing down required. You remove the old core and then build up around the youth and new players. New attitude. No prima donnas. Again, Ottawa is doing it right. Do that. What if the thing that caused Eichel's poor attitude is still pulling the strings? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Thorny said: What if the thing that caused Eichel's poor attitude is still pulling the strings? I'm pretty sure the string puller is still in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: <sigh> One quick last try. It's not about going old school, but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. The game on the ice has changed, everybody knows that, but the dynamics of team building and what makes a successful organization have not. The point is, we, as a franchise did it the right way once upon a time and thus we need to look back and do those things (the ones that are still relevant in today's game, and there are many) again and the top needs to stop thinking they know some new better way. Hockey is still hockey. You don't have to respond to this futile circular discussion. If you believe that I think that the organization has been smartly run then you are way off the mark. Of course the organization has do a better job running the organization. Who is saying otherwise? There is nothing more to add to this exchange. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 3 hours ago, Thorny said: What if the thing that caused Eichel's poor attitude is still pulling the strings? I'm not buying one bit of his spin on the "disconnect." That is his way of making himself look better and dumping on the franchise as the problem. Probably his agent's advice. Oh look, Jack tried his best, he did everything, it's just those damn Sabres kept him from being the greatest. Bull. If anything, the Sabres mistake was in handing him the keys to everything without actually earning it. This set the tone and the culture. Eichel this Eichel that. he should have never been named captain. It ruined this franchise. So I guess in doing that it's Pegula's fault, but ultimately if Eichel was as dedicated as McDavid it would have gone differently. But he's not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said: I'm not buying one bit of his spin on the "disconnect." That is his way of making himself look better and dumping on the franchise as the problem. Probably his agent's advice. Oh look, Jack tried his best, he did everything, it's just those damn Sabres kept him from being the greatest. Bull. If anything, the Sabres mistake was in handing him the keys to everything without actually earning it. This set the tone and the culture. Eichel this Eichel that. he should have never been named captain. It ruined this franchise. So I guess in doing that it's Pegula's fault, but ultimately if Eichel was as dedicated as McDavid it would have gone differently. But he's not. This is ridiculous How many playoff appearances have the Oilers secured since McDavid? How many series wins? Is that all the difference between McDavid and Eichel counted for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) The entire argument is laughable. Eichel was only a top 10 scorer last year? Only top 10 in MVP voting?? Shoulda been top 5 so he coulda carried his team COMPLETELY all the way to 24th place and the fake playoffs! This isn't the NFL (QB) or the NBA. If you don't get that, there's no reasoning with you Edited May 10, 2021 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, Thorny said: This is ridiculous How many playoff appearances have the Oilers secured since McDavid? How many series wins? Is that all the difference between McDavid and Eichel counted for? It's a team sport and the dynamics of being a team are what's important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 Just now, PerreaultForever said: It's a team sport and the dynamics of being a team are what's important. But you said being as committed as McDavid would have been enough to get it done. The Oilers have made the playoffs once and have 1 series win since drafting McDavid. Wouldn't the significant gap in talent between the two perhaps explain what amounts to a small difference in the postseason success/lack-there-of of these teams? What's wrong with McDavid to miss the playoffs 4 out of 5 tries before this season? Making it the one time makes McDavid McJesus and Jack the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Eleven said: @Thorny It made Sportscenter at the :58 minute mark. So hardly a priority. So not a priority on -er, and a heavy priority on -re. As we expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, Thorny said: But you said being as committed as McDavid would have been enough to get it done. The Oilers have made the playoffs once and have 1 series win since drafting McDavid. Wouldn't the significant gap in talent between the two perhaps explain what amounts to a small difference in the postseason success/lack-there-of of these teams? What's wrong with McDavid to miss the playoffs 4 out of 5 tries before this season? Making it the one time makes McDavid McJesus and Jack the problem? What I meant was the dynamics of the team have a different feel. There's more unity, they compete, they feel like they have a chance. McDavid doesn't smash his stick he digs down and plays harder. the team follows. I'm not saying that is all they need, the Oilers have made a ton of mistakes and are not going to win it all, but the team isn't a shambles like we are. I am sure if the draft was flipped we'd have done a lot better over these years and if not in the playoffs this year damn close. We'd be excited about that too and building off it, not pointing fingers and arguing about where the most blame goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 Just now, Thorny said: So not a priority on -er, and a heavy priority on -re. As we expected. Yep. I also have moved my comment to the correct thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 Just watched a bunch of Columbus players praising Tortorella and saying how they will miss him. Merzlikins especially. So, just saying, bring them both in and reset the culture with a new core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said: Just watched a bunch of Columbus players praising Tortorella and saying how they will miss him. Merzlikins especially. So, just saying, bring them both in and reset the culture with a new core. 1. Nolan to Columbus confirmed. 2. More seriously, I really wouldn't mind him here on a two-year deal. Just enough time to turn the culture around, and not long enough to adversely affect success. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 Just now, Eleven said: 1. Nolan to Columbus confirmed. 2. More seriously, I really wouldn't mind him here on a two-year deal. Just enough time to turn the culture around, and not long enough to adversely affect success. I'd give him 5 years myself. Let all the players know this is how it's going to be and this is what this team will be. You give him 2 years with this history/culture and the team could just quit and wait for the next guy. Torts is not the old school hard ass some think he is. He's evolved and learned. Players love him. He rewards hard work and that's a good thing, but he knows what he's doing and he will develop all these young guys the right way. Those that refuse to buy in were not worth keeping anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted May 10, 2021 Report Share Posted May 10, 2021 On 5/9/2021 at 7:25 PM, Buffalonill said: Should go back to assistant coaching he sucks My reaction was "meh" when I read that article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 Go to Boudreau and give him whatever the hell he wants. We need a credible proven coach who commands respect and brings credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 This has nothing to do with the actual coaching search but Dominic Moore is a guy I always thought would be a great coach and he just looks the part. He is on NBCSN right now and just seems like a dude that'd be really good behind the bench. My ideal situation is a veteran coach who can come in and right the ship but has a young assistant that is essentially waiting in the wings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 2 hours ago, sabremike said: Go to Boudreau and give him whatever the hell he wants. We need a credible proven coach who commands respect and brings credibility. So why Boudreau? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 11, 2021 Report Share Posted May 11, 2021 I hadn't really thought about current NHL assistants much but the second I did I realized EXACTLY who I want for the job ... MANNY MALHOTRA. I give an extreme endorsement of him as the head coach but I honestly think he'd either stay in Toronto and take another job over coming here (for obvious reasons). He should be number one on everyone's list. Extremely respected as a player and his transition to coaching has been smooth with a ton of measured success. Good read-up on his ability to execute a vision and lead in areas that were outside his abilities as a player. https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/power-play-dominance-just-one-aspect-malhotras-early-impact-leafs/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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