Official Jason Karmanos Hired as Sabres Associate GM

[sabremike]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

Too long, didn’t read

Tl:dr.

[Curt]

I’m going to give a strangely optimistic take here.

The Sabres look like they are well set up to drastically change their team culture.  The front office is beyond bare bones (just let go of another scout a few days ago).  There is no HC.  Only five players (non ELC)are under contract for longer than one more season.  The slate is about as clean as it gets for an NHL team.

If a couple smart, experienced, well connected FO guys (like Karmanos and Rutherford) are brought in now, they can form a FO nucleus with Adams that can identify exactly what type of team they are going to build, what they are going to value in players and people.  Then they can target coaches, scouts/analytics people, development staff, and players who all fit that mold.  It’s honestly an opportunity to quickly build a group where everyone is pointed in the same direction.

I don’t know where things are going from here.  However, when I look at the mess the team has become and think about how they could get back on the right track, this is the potential path forward I see that leads to a way out.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Curt said:

I’m going to give a strangely optimistic take here.

The Sabres look like they are well set up to drastically change their team culture.  The front office is beyond bare bones (just let go of another scout a few days ago).  There is no HC.  Only five players (non ELC)are under contract for longer than one more season.  The slate is about as clean as it gets for an NHL team.

If a couple smart, experienced, well connected FO guys (like Karmanos and Rutherford) are brought in now, they can form a FO nucleus with Adams that can identify exactly what type of team they are going to build, what they are going to value in players and people.  Then they can target coaches, scouts/analytics people, development staff, and players who all fit that mold.  It’s honestly an opportunity to quickly build a group where everyone is pointed in the same direction.

I don’t know where things are going from here.  However, when I look at the mess the team has become and think about how they could get back on the right track, this is the potential path forward I see that leads to a way out.

Great post.

They are virtually an expansion team with Jack Eichel, Jeff Skinner, Rasmus Dahlin and three drafts worth of prospects already in the can.

It can be (and should be) a virtual tabula rasa for Adams to paint as he sees fit.

Edited March 31, 2021 by dudacek

[SDS]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Great post.

They are virtually an expansion team with Jack Eichel, Jeff Skinner, Rasmus Dahlin and three drafts worth of prospects already in the can.

It can be (and should be) a virtual tabula rasa for Adams to paint as he sees fit.

Why do you make me look up words?

[GASabresIUFAN]

57 minutes ago, SDS said:

Why do you make me look up words?

It's the benefits of a classical education.

Edited March 31, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Claude Balls]

If they (hopefully) hire both Karmonos and Rutherford, I hope to hell they have a cogent plan in place. Time to clean this horseshit up.

[That Aud Smell]

9 hours ago, Hoss said:

Was poorly worded. Our attention spans are the reason news has evolved the way it is but a lot of societal factors have gone into decreasing attention spans across the board.

Including, maybe, how the media presents content, such as the news.

Bit of a chicken and egg scenario, I guess.

[PASabreFan]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Great post.

They are virtually an expansion team with Jack Eichel, Jeff Skinner, Rasmus Dahlin and three drafts worth of prospects already in the can.

It can be (and should be) a virtual tabula rasa for Adams to paint as he sees fit.

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

Great post.

They are virtually an expansion team with Jack Eichel, Jeff Skinner, Rasmus Dahlin and three drafts worth of prospects already in the can.

It can be (and should be) a virtual tabula rasa for Adams to paint as he sees fit.

I believe the 5 players under contract beyond next season are Eichel, Girgensons, Thompson, Okposo, and Skinner. Nearly 30 million (and around 35% of the cap already) on the books for 2 seasons longer after this one, or more. So, "virtually an expansion team" is a stretch. Slate is relatively open but it's still 4 un-ideal players under contract for a while, 2 of them albatrosses. This "open slate" stuff has been a conversation going on years now because Botterill kept signing short deals.

It's not a positive, or a negative - all that matters is if the organization has smartened up. We've been here before, and recently. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Thorny

[Scottysabres]

So where does this rumor stand as of this morning? I would think if both Kamaros and Rutherford are coming over, they'd like input on any deadline moves, no?

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

So where does this rumor stand as of this morning? I would think if both Kamaros and Rutherford are coming over, they'd like input on any deadline moves, no?

Karmanos is coming, it's taking so long to finalize b/c he's apparently walking to Buffalo on foot from Carolina 

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

So where does this rumor stand as of this morning? I would think if both Kamaros and Rutherford are coming over, they'd like input on any deadline moves, no?

I think it stands the same place that it did 2 days ago.

[Curt]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I believe the 5 players under contract beyond next season are Eichel, Girgensons, Thompson, Okposo, and Skinner. Slate is pretty open but it's still 4 un-ideal players under contract for a while, 2 of them albatrosses. This "open slate" stuff has been a conversation going on years now because Botterill kept signing short deals.

It's not a positive, or a negative - all that matters is if the organization has smartened up. We've been here before, and recently. 

Girgensons and Thompson are not ideal, but also are not too expensive and not too long, 2 more years.

Okposo is expensive, but not too long, 2 more years.

Skinner is awful.

Eichel is Eichel.

I would say that not having lots of players locked up long term is a good thing if your team is awful and you need to turnover a lot of the roster.

[Thorny]

Just now, Curt said:

Girgensons and Thompson are not ideal, but also are not too expensive and not too long, 2 more years.

Okposo is expensive, but not too long, 2 more years.

Skinner is awful.

Eichel is Eichel.

I would say that not having lots of players locked up long term is a good thing if your team is awful and you need to turnover a lot of the roster.

Ya. I just think the smoke being blown is a little thick.

Two more seasons from now represents Adams 3rd year as GM. How long have GMs been lasting here lately? 3 year term is an eternity for a GM and par for the course for recent durations of the Sabres variety of said. 

If we have 35% of the cap accounted for, for at least another 2 years, that's not virtually expansion team/blank canvas or whatever. The Sabres are where they've always been - reasonable flexibility but it's not in itself a positive: it's similar to the tank in that there were so many spots to fill, the chances of filling them all adequately becomes really unlikely.

We'd be in a better spot if we had more players worth keeping, obviously. 

Especially if the plan is to rebuild with picks ie a crapshoot. It's why I keep saying it's important to get players back in trades when possible

[Radar]

22 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

So where does this rumor stand as of this morning? I would think if both Kamaros and Rutherford are coming over, they'd like input on any deadline moves, no?

It stands where its always stood. A rumor. And from ? sources.. So, for me, I'll believe it when I see it.

[Radar]

5 hours ago, Claude Balls said:

If they (hopefully) hire both Karmonos and Rutherford, I hope to hell they have a cogent plan in place. Time to clean this horseshit up.

Yeah, and that's not going to be easy. We have a couple contracts that are not tradeable. We have a lot with no trade value. And a few that to trade would be starting all over and very possibly in worst shape if that's possible. Let's get to bottom line.........this is a s..t show.

[Curt]

48 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya. I just think the smoke being blown is a little thick.

Two more seasons from now represents Adams 3rd year as GM. How long have GMs been lasting here lately? 3 year term is an eternity for a GM and par for the course for recent durations of the Sabres variety of said. 

If we have 35% of the cap accounted for, for at least another 2 years, that's not virtually expansion team/blank canvas or whatever. The Sabres are where they've always been - reasonable flexibility but it's not in itself a positive: it's similar to the tank in that there were so many spots to fill, the chances of filling them all adequately becomes really unlikely.

We'd be in a better spot if we had more players worth keeping, obviously. 

Especially if the plan is to rebuild with picks ie a crapshoot. It's why I keep saying it's important to get players back in trades when possible

Yeah, maybe you have a point.  However, the player contract situation was only one part of my breakdown.  The rest of the organization has maximum flexibility.

And besides, every contract is moveable except for Skinner at this point.  Even Okposo this summer will be at the point where a buyout is a feasible possibility.

Im not saying that flexibility is the guarantee of success, but the flexibility is clearly there.  And if the team is terrible, it’s a lot better to have flexibility than not.

Edited March 31, 2021 by Curt

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

How the Sabres will fill in the blanks:

Edited March 31, 2021 by Doohickie

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, maybe you have a point.  However, the player contract situation was only one part of my breakdown.  The rest of the organization has maximum flexibility.

And besides, every contract is moveable except for Skinner at this point.  Even Okposo this summer will be at the point where a buyout is a feasible possibility.

Im not saying that flexibility is the guarantee of success, but the flexibility is clearly there.  And if the team is terrible, it’s a lot better to have flexibility than not.

I shall sharpen it. 

[Derrico]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I think it stands the same place that it did 2 days ago.

Do we still think it’s going to happen?

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

9 hours ago, Curt said:

I’m going to give a strangely optimistic take here.

The Sabres look like they are well set up to drastically change their team culture.  The front office is beyond bare bones (just let go of another scout a few days ago).  There is no HC.  Only five players (non ELC)are under contract for longer than one more season.  The slate is about as clean as it gets for an NHL team.

If a couple smart, experienced, well connected FO guys (like Karmanos and Rutherford) are brought in now, they can form a FO nucleus with Adams that can identify exactly what type of team they are going to build, what they are going to value in players and people.  Then they can target coaches, scouts/analytics people, development staff, and players who all fit that mold.  It’s honestly an opportunity to quickly build a group where everyone is pointed in the same direction.

I don’t know where things are going from here.  However, when I look at the mess the team has become and think about how they could get back on the right track, this is the potential path forward I see that leads to a way out.

This would be great, and hopefully this is what they have in mind.  Ideally KA would just be the intermediary between the Pegulas and the people that actually know something about how to build a hockey organization.  KAs first offseason was a mess with overpaying depth players and not addressing the glaring weaknesses in net and depth on defense, but it looks like he is able to make trades and with some FO support he may be able to be put in a position where he can actually succeed.  I guess we will see...

[Radar]

6 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

This would be great, and hopefully this is what they have in mind.  Ideally KA would just be the intermediary between the Pegulas and the people that actually know something about how to build a hockey organization.  KAs first offseason was a mess with overpaying depth players and not addressing the glaring weaknesses in net and depth on defense, but it looks like he is able to make trades and with some FO support he may be able to be put in a position where he can actually succeed.  I guess we will see...

Strangely, and I'm not sure why, I think KA may be better than his two immediate predecessors. Of course that may not be saying all that much. I do wish they pick a more experienced guy but Kim and Terry had still wanted to control things. Now, hopefully, they have let it sink in that this franchise is a complete shipwreck and bring in reinforcements.

[Curt]

53 minutes ago, Derrico said:

Do we still think it’s going to happen?

Yeah, why not?  Lol

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

I believe the 5 players under contract beyond next season are Eichel, Girgensons, Thompson, Okposo, and Skinner. Nearly 30 million (and around 35% of the cap already) on the books for 2 seasons longer after this one, or more. So, "virtually an expansion team" is a stretch. Slate is relatively open but it's still 4 un-ideal players under contract for a while, 2 of them albatrosses. This "open slate" stuff has been a conversation going on years now because Botterill kept signing short deals.

It's not a positive, or a negative - all that matters is if the organization has smartened up. We've been here before, and recently. 

I don't see it as a stretch at all. What do you think an expansion team usually looks like?

They are full of players/contracts like Thompson and Girgensons, and they usually have an expensive "savvy vet" or two like Okposo sprinkled in.

The unusual elements are Skinner, Eichel and Dahlin, and the presence of an existing pool of prospects. Only one of those four things is a negative.

They have a big vacuum waiting to be filled at the top of their hockey department, their scouting department has been thoroughly culled and ready to be refreshed, they have no coach, and they have about 15 roster spots to fill and about $50 million to spend.

You're right that all of it is meaningless if they don't seize the opportunity, but it doesn't mean the opportunity isn't there.

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don't see it as a stretch at all. What do you think an expansion team usually looks like?

They are full of players/contracts like Thompson and Girgensons, and they usually have an expensive "savvy vet" or two like Okposo sprinkled in.

The unusual elements are Skinner, Eichel and Dahlin, and the presence of an existing pool of prospects. Only one of those four things is a negative.

They have a big vacuum waiting to be filled at the top of their hockey department, their scouting department has been thoroughly culled and ready to be refreshed, they have no coach, and they have about 15 roster spots to fill and about $50 million to spend.

You're right that all of it is meaningless if they don't seize the opportunity, but it doesn't mean the opportunity isn't there.

Ya I didn't say in my post the overall situation was bad relative to an expansion team. Just that the "unusual elements" are substantial.