Let's breakdown that SHG fiasco

[PromoTheRobot]

So what am I seeing here? Blame to go around.

1) Hall in the Eichel role QB'ing the power play. He's getting pinned along the wall. 

2) He has 2 other options besides passing back to Dahlin: a) down low to Reinhart (the safest move) or b) cross-ice to Olofsson.

3) None of the other Sabres are moving much to get open for Hall.

4) Probably too predicably, Hall goes back to Dahlin but his pass hits Goodreau's stick.

5) Goodreau gets control of the puck and instead of dropping back immediately, Dahlin tries to get the puck back, gets turned around and leaves a lane to the goal open.

6) Now behind the play, Dahlin is too focused on Goodreau to pay attention to the trailer.

7) Tokarski has to play Goodreau, assuming Dahlin will cover the trailer, but that doesn't happen.

So there's enough blame to go around but this is typical of what's been happening to Dahlin all season. He makes a bad decision followed up with another bad one on who to cover. My question is what has he been coached to do to make him this hockey-dumb? He's played defense guys entire life. How does he forget what to do?

[Randall Flagg]

All good points. I do think Hall deserves a lot of focus too. Dude was begging to hand the puck away for an odd man rush against 3 or 4 times before he finally succeeded.

[Kruppstahl]

The part that killed me watching it live was just how quickly Dahlin lost a step to Gaudreau, and how once that step was lost, it wasn't going to be found again the whole way down the ice.

Dahlin is SLOW and that will never be fixed.

He can develop a playing style to protect against that, but it's always going to be a problem for him.

I can't believe a guy *this* slow was rated *that* highly.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Kruppstahl

[Scottysabres]

I focus solely on Dahlin for a moment.

He attempted to first move towards the puck, then, realizing Goodreau was going to beat him to it did a stick swing at it and Goodreau made a nice move to get on Dahlin's backside with forward momentum while Dahlin was still moving lateral.

The fact Dahlin did not, I repeat, did not commit to his initial move at puck possession is the primary reason the play developed beyond a tipped pass from Hall. That is not coaching, that is player instinct. The hesitation to commit was a bad hockey decision.

As for Hall, yea, he got a dose of what Eichel deals with game in and game out, and it is exactly what was mentioned, no movement from the other players on the ice. The lack of any supporting play, yea, that appears to be a coaching situation. You should be here, you here, and so on. In my opinion, every team in the league knows this, hence the high pressure consistency every game against Sabres players. Good catch.

But Hall did have options. So although the play fully unfolds in to an abusive explosion on Dahlin, the catalyst for it is on Hall.

Both players, 1st over all picks, showed complete low hockey IQ on the play. The real question I have, is this career systemic? 

[pi2000]

Hall shouldn't have forced the puck to Dahlin with Reinhart wide open down low.

That said, I'm OK with the turnover... it happens, good stick by Goodreau.

What I'm not OK with is Dahlin's initial move at Goodreau.    His stick AND body angle toward the puck.     That's a play you see in squirts and peewee, which any decent coach will correct at a young age.     He should have had stick on puck, BODY ON BODY.     

For me this all goes back to bad practice habits.    You can tell by the way they play that they aren't physical enough in practice and it shows up in this sequence.   

[LGR4GM]

Actually if you watch it, Dahlin touches the puck with his stick but it goes right back to the Penns players stick and since they are moving in opposite directions... it's all over. 

1 hour ago, Kruppstahl said:

The part that killed me watching it live was just how quickly Dahlin lost a step to Gaudreau, and how once that step was lost, it wasn't going to be found again the whole way down the ice.

Dahlin is SLOW and that will never be fixed.

He can develop a playing style to protect against that, but it's always going to be a problem for him.

I can't believe a guy *this* slow was rated *that* highly.

 

 

That's because you think his is slow, your mind is made up, and Dahlin now regardless of anything else he does will always be slow. We call this the "Reinhart paradox" 

[LGR4GM]

This really shows what happened well. Dahlin has the puck for a split second on his stick and think he can control it but he doesn't. This leads him to be moving left and forward while the Penns player gets the control and goes opposite and away. 12 seconds in shows it well. For a guy that is "slow" he sure does keep up with a guy who was turning at full speed after he turns around and starts from nothing. 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by LGR4GM

[inkman]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Actually if you watch it, Dahlin touches the puck with his stick but it goes right back to the Penns players stick and since they are moving in opposite directions... it's all over. 

There are many things I don’t like about Dahlin but I’m not going to kill the kid for making a mistake.  He’ll learn from it. He’s usually very slick keeping the puck in the zone.  The bigger problem is putting Hall in Jack’s spot expecting the same dynamic.  Hall just isn’t very good right now, for whatever reason.  Put Reinhart in that spot, he’s way closer to Jack in talent and in particular on ice vision.  

[LGR4GM]

I think Dahlin needs to get better and his short burst skating is an area. His defensive awareness also has issues but those I think relate to coaching and him being unsure (confidence). Not going to murder a kid for a ***** pass from Hall that he didn't handle well. 

[Randall Flagg]

Yeah, Dahlin is actually really good at *winning* in that situation usually, and it creates a lot of danger for the PK team that's lunging out of position. For me it's all on Hall. When you watch games, you can *feel* what the natural correct decision with the puck is on the PP, and Hall routinely violates nature, and he did there. Pass to Reinhart! 

5 minutes ago, inkman said:

There are many things I don’t like about Dahlin but I’m not going to kill the kid for making a mistake.  He’ll learn from it. He’s usually very slick keeping the puck in the zone.  The bigger problem is putting Hall in Jack’s spot expecting the same dynamic.  Hall just isn’t very good right now, for whatever reason.  Put Reinhart in that spot, he’s way closer to Jack in talent and in particular on ice vision.  

I think our structure of running the PP on the walls (offhand on both sides) and with a point man in the middle is fairly new to the Eichel era. First Eichel - Risto - ROR leading a great PP from up there in 2016-17, then Eichel - Dahlin - Olofsson recently. It has spoiled me, and I never want to see guys on their typical wings on the PP again lol. It always seems like Hall is in an inopportune spot. That might just be him, but being a lefty on that wall is weird 

[LGR4GM]

The play can be broken into 3 parts.

Part 1: Hall screws up and sends a pass to the point basically through a defender. 

Part 2: Dahlin thinks he can win the puck and doesn't aka he screws up.

Part 3: Dahlin is engaged with the puck carrier all the way down the ice, is smart enough to stop in front where the trailer is waiting that Taylor Hall didn't pick up because he also went after the puck carrier that Dahlin was engaged with. Considering Hall could see the ice and Dahlin couldn't, Hall ***** up again. 

[DHawerchuk10]

25 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Hall shouldn't have forced the puck to Dahlin with Reinhart wide open down low.

That said, I'm OK with the turnover... it happens, good stick by Goodreau.

What I'm not OK with is Dahlin's initial move at Goodreau.    His stick AND body angle toward the puck.     That's a play you see in squirts and peewee, which any decent coach will correct at a young age.     He should have had stick on puck, BODY ON BODY.     

For me this all goes back to bad practice habits.    You can tell by the way they play that they aren't physical enough in practice and it shows up in this sequence.   

I totally agree.  He's not physically engaged, and tends to glue his eyes to the puck, all while not being able to react quick enough.  This appears to be disturbingly pervasive throughout the lineup though.  One would expect that given Dahlin's skillset, he could break out of this funk.  The fact that he seems to be falling further and further into the abyss is quite vexing.  

[DHawerchuk10]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The play can be broken into 3 parts.

Part 1: Hall screws up and sends a pass to the point basically through a defender. 

Part 2: Dahlin thinks he can win the puck and doesn't aka he screws up.

Part 3: Dahlin is engaged with the puck carrier all the way down the ice, is smart enough to stop in front where the trailer is waiting that Taylor Hall didn't pick up because he also went after the puck carrier that Dahlin was engaged with. Considering Hall could see the ice and Dahlin couldn't, Hall ***** up again. 

He plays the body in Part 2, and we are not even talking about this play.  Even if he gets the puck cleanly there, the puck is leaving the zone based on momentum alone.  

Not sure what the heck Hall is doing on the back check.  This is also abysmal.  

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, DHawerchuk10 said:

He plays the body in Part 2, and we are not even talking about this play.  Even if he gets the puck cleanly there, the puck is leaving the zone based on momentum alone.  

Not sure what the heck Hall is doing on the back check.  This is also abysmal.  

True.

[spndnchz]

I’d pick down low to Reinhart (2).  The defenseman most likely moves to him and Reinhart has a pass to Oly for one timer.

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

The play can be broken into 3 parts.

Part 1: Hall screws up and sends a pass to the point basically through a defender. 

Part 2: Dahlin thinks he can win the puck and doesn't aka he screws up.

Part 3: Dahlin is engaged with the puck carrier all the way down the ice, is smart enough to stop in front where the trailer is waiting that Taylor Hall didn't pick up because he also went after the puck carrier that Dahlin was engaged with. Considering Hall could see the ice and Dahlin couldn't, Hall ***** up again. 

I have a part before your #1.

Part A. Using a PP system where if a turnover occurs, the only outcome is a 2 on 1 (or breakaway) the other way.

We've seen it so many times already this year that it's no longer a surprise when it happens.

 

[pi2000]

Watching this again frame by frame, there's a moment where Dahlin reaches for the puck just as it crosses the blueline... he misses, Goodreau regains control.    In that instant Dahlin should have transitioned (to backwards skating) by pivoting clockwise with his body, head and eyes turned toward the puck keeping Goodreau in front of him.    Instead he makes the lazy play.... reach, miss, fly-by, turns his back to the puck and opponent... and at that moment his toast.     

[Marvin]

What is sad is that Dahlin routinely made better plays than this and was more confident and decisive when Housley was his coach.  I would be up with PH as an assistant with Boudreau if that's what it takes...

[PerreaultForever]

9 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

What is sad is that Dahlin routinely made better plays than this and was more confident and decisive when Housley was his coach.  I would be up with PH as an assistant with Boudreau if that's what it takes...

lol, less than zero chance Housley returns here as an assistant after being run out of town as the head man. 

Not related to the SHG but Dahlin has simply been developed poorly by this organization. He isn't the fastest guy out there, that is true, but he's not overly slow for a typical defender either. The team had to recognize this lack of speed and brought him in slower, taught him defense at this level, taught him proper body positioning and with less minutes and pressure give him the tools for proper decision making related to his skill set. He also needed (and still needs) to be a lot stronger. The raw talent was there and maybe still is, but all of that failure is on the team and the organization.

Also, and this is very important, Dahlin (and the entire D really) takes all the heat for the goals allowed but in many cases, like on their first goal, it's really the fault of the forwards and the team play. All too often no forwards seem to have the awareness to cover for D men trapped or delayed on a rush. There's very little rotation, very little team play. Everybody is a Skinner styled (he's one of the worst at this) individual and when one player makes a mistake or over reaches on a play there is nobody to help him.. The entire team is all too often caught our of position or just waiting for somebody else to do the work. We see the D man or the goalie at the point of goal, but the play would have never happened if we played like a proper team. 

[JoeSchmoe]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

All too often no forwards seem to have the awareness to cover for D men trapped or delayed on a rush

You also see a LOT of goals... Way too many... where the D have coverage, but no F3 pick up the 3rd attacker. 

Since it's the two D standing around, they take the heat from us fans.

Yes, this scoring chance might even come as a result of a lost puck battle from the D... But puck battles are 50% and losing one shouldn't result in the puck landing at a guy wide open in the slot or far post for an easy goal.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

lol, less than zero chance Housley returns here as an assistant after being run out of town as the head man. 

 

That got me thinking. If you are paying a fired coach under contract, don't they have to do what you want since you're still getting paying them? They could say no but forfeit the rest of his contract.