Good Article on Sabres Dysfunction from 538

[Kruppstahl]

"Everything That Could Go Wrong For The Buffalo Sabres Has Gone Wrong

Like, seriously, everything."

 

The author of this piece, Neil Paine, is going to be a guest TOMORROW with Schopp and Bulldog.

I'll post the audio file for that interview when it is available.

I'm looking forward to their discussion.  

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/sports/

[Scottysabres]

So, in essence, ever since the Pegula's bought the team, it has sucked and continuously sunk to new suckage lows, year, after year, after year, and in every category imaginable. Free Agency Acquistions, suckage. Drafting, suckage. Development, suckage.

It's been a suck fest in Buffalo for 8 + years, and if you've felt left out, don't. If you feel you personally weren't experiencing "The Great Buffalo Suck-A-Thon" in your life in that time, rest assured, if you watched a Sabres game, you've been drained.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Scottysabres

[Marvin]

I was about to post this.  They don't want to go to the root cause of the problem below the owner and the owner's inexplicable buy-in making him responsible for the travesty we have been witnessing.

Nice article on https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/the-issue-with-rebuilds.2811547/ in this vein.

[Norcal]

Couple things I learned.

Worse than the Knicks? Rough.

The Knicks are known in the sports world as the worst run franchise but I guess that's because the Knicks are known, period. 

Nobody outside the hockey world realizes the Sabres are this futile, or cares. 

Detroit isn't far behind 

And this from the article...

"Overall, Sabres holdovers from 2020 are on pace to decline by 53 net goals in 2021 (by GAR per 82 games), relative to a year ago. Only returnees to the Philadelphia Flyers and Columbus Blue Jackets have regressed more this season."

Those teams have respected veteran coaches too. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

16 minutes ago, Norcal said:

 

And this from the article...

"Overall, Sabres holdovers from 2020 are on pace to decline by 53 net goals in 2021 (by GAR per 82 games), relative to a year ago. Only returnees to the Philadelphia Flyers and Columbus Blue Jackets have regressed more this season."

Those teams have respected veteran coaches too. 

This is a fascinating stat, but it just stat proof of what we already knew.

Yes, this franchise is a mess.  I do love how these guys all pounce on the team while's it's down.  Where are their solutions?  Sure better drafting would have helped.  I've been saying that since TM was GM.  Better prospect development, better asset management, better coaching, better senior management, better players and better effort from the players we do have would all have helped.  Now tell us something we don't know, like why the Pegula's insist on hiring managers and senior leadership without proven track records?  Tell us what the fans can do to get the Pegula's to step away and hire experienced management.  Tell us which available players will fix the on ice issues and what assets we need to part with to get them.  Do they have these answers?  No, didn't think so!

These same hacks told us what a great job KA did this off-season getting Hall, Staal and the band of nobodies.  They told us what a great and gutsy hire RK was.  They certainly have opinions.  The collective here does a better job of recognizing the issues and offering solutions then any media hack I've seen including these idiots.

Edited March 24, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Radar]

One word! Ownership. Not coaching, GM's  or the equipment manager. Ownership responsible for all of it.

[PerreaultForever]

5 minutes ago, Radar said:

One word! Ownership. Not coaching, GM's  or the equipment manager. Ownership responsible for all of it.

I have to believe it all starts at the fracture point with Pat LaFontaine. Had they done whatever it was he wanted and let him run it all this might have all been totally different. The philosophical difference at that moment sent us down the wrong path. 

I've heard nothing to indicate in any way that the Pegulas finally realize they are wrong, and that they will turn it over to someone who really knows hockey. 

[Weave]

24 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I was about to post this.  They don't want to go to the root cause of the problem below the owner and the owner's inexplicable buy-in making him responsible for the travesty we have been witnessing.

Nice article on https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/the-issue-with-rebuilds.2811547/ in this vein.

I'm not on hfboards.  Maybe I should.  This guy says it better, and with fewer words, than what I have been saying for 7 years.

Quote

By tanking:
1.you remove most of the good vets from the team (sold for futures), you remove the mentorship and leadership from the team and this causes prospects to come up in a worse environment.
2.Your prospects then turn out worse as a whole. You make your team become a much less desirable UFA spot, so you essentially have to pay a premium to get anyone
3. Overall the team morale just tanks and this lack of team morale can take years to fix

Sure you might get a few shiny top 5 picks. But those picks are coming up in a worse environment and likely won't turn out as well. You also cause long-lasting damage to the team and thatll take many years to fix

You want to know why the Sabres are dysfunctional?  That quote explains it quite well.  Even with the highest of picks, your player development sucks because you have no tenured vets from the good days that feel an obligation to mentor, and you've replaced them with mercenaries that aren't motivated to provide mentorship. The result is poor professional development and poor morale.

[Norcal]

20 minutes ago, Radar said:

One word! Ownership. Not coaching, GM's  or the equipment manager. Ownership responsible for all of it.

I wonder if..

1. Terry has known he is regarded as the problem and refuses to give away any power? 

2. He only recently came to terms with the fact that he's the problem and has started to give way to KA? Adding an AGM and hopefully more. 

3. He has no idea he's the problem or refuses to believe it? 

[Marvin]

17 minutes ago, Weave said:

I'm not on hfboards.  Maybe I should.  This guy says it better, and with fewer words, than what I have been saying for 7 years.

You want to know why the Sabres are dysfunctional?  That quote explains it quite well.  Even with the highest of picks, your player development sucks because you have no tenured vets from the good days that feel an obligation to mentor, and you've replaced them with mercenaries that aren't motivated to provide mentorship. The result is poor professional development and poor morale.

Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you....

<vent>

T&KP are ultimately responsible.  They listened to the most vocal fans who wanted to be mind-numbingly horrible for multiple season, were conned into The Tank and allowed profligate spending of assets, oversaw the creation of our current losing culture, and now can't hire the right folks to pull us out of this.

Let me be clear.  IMHO, it is irrefutable that The Tank is THE ORIGINAL SIN of the Pegula era.  We increased the odds of the decade of disaster by tanking because for at least 2 seasons, losing was not only acceptable but encouraged from management and many fans.  And that mindset has contaminated the franchise since then until now.

Players should not have ever got even the joking idea that players who are doing well were angling to get traded in 2013-5.  Ted Nolan had every right to be angry with GMTM at the end of 2015.  Dan Bylsma actually has forward and defencive depth in 2015-7.  The plan of "losing to win" never enters the argument for 2017-8.  Phil Housley had every right to be angry with GMJB at the end of 2019.

Finally, even those who excused losing are fed up.  Now a real rebuild can start.  Pity it could result trading Jack, Sam, Rasmus D, Joker, et al. and a few more years of crap.  But at least we are in year 1 of a fully non-tank mindset.

</vent>

Edited March 24, 2021 by Marvin, Sabres Fan

[Scottysabres]

5 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you....

T&KP are ultimately responsible.  They listened to the most vocal fans who wanted to be mind-numbingly horrible for multiple season, were conned into The Tank and allowed profligate spending of assets, oversaw the creation of our current losing culture, and now can't hire the right folks to pull us out of this.

Let me be clear.  IMHO, it is irrefutable that The Tank is THE ORIGINAL SIN of the Pegula era.  We increased the odds of the decade of disaster by tanking.

I don't believe the bolded is exactly how it all went down. If you remember, Regier was asked what it would take to compete for the Cup again, his response, "Suffering". And he isn't completely wrong. Weave's post is correct, it is a snowball effect, the problem got bigger because they gutted the leadership, the mentors that were vested in logo on their chest. Pominville, Vanek, Gaustad, Miller immediately come to mind.

I believe Pegula listened to his advisors. What I now call "The Pittsburgh Bunch". His advisors, Sawyer, Black and the coach, Bylsma, were Pittsburgh products, same with Botterill. Pegula didn't use common sense, he used connections from his East Resources Pennsylvania days, that, was the catalyst to the past 8 yrs, in my humbled opinion. But, the fans, we may have cheered to go for the McDavid/Eichel sweepstakes, but we weren't the triggering mechanism, that was on Terry Pegula. As the owner, he sets the expectations of the organization as a whole. His goal may have been Stanley Cups, but his plan and it's implementation were 180 degrees the exact opposite.

[Marvin]

2 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

I don't believe the bolded is exactly how it all went down. If you remember, Regier was asked what it would take to compete for the Cup again, his response, "Suffering". And he isn't completely wrong. Weave's post is correct, it is a snowball effect, the problem got bigger because they gutted the leadership, the mentors that were vested in logo on their chest. Pominville, Vanek, Gaustad, Miller immediately come to mind.

I believe Pegula listened to his advisors. What I now call "The Pittsburgh Bunch". His advisors, Sawyer, Black and the coach, Bylsma, were Pittsburgh products, same with Botterill. Pegula didn't use common sense, he used connections from his East Resources Pennsylvania days, that, was the catalyst to the past 8 yrs, in my humbled opinion. But, the fans, we may have cheered to go for the McDavid/Eichel sweepstakes, but we weren't the triggering mechanism, that was on Terry Pegula. As the owner, he sets the expectations of the organization as a whole. His goal may have been Stanley Cups, but his plan and it's implementation were 180 degrees the exact opposite.

I have a different perception: they were two of the fans rooting for the tank.  As such, we the fans, T&KP included, were the triggering mechanism.  When it comes to the tank, I put them in the same boat as we are.

JMO.  YMMV.

[Radar]

21 minutes ago, Norcal said:

I wonder if..

1. Terry has known he is regarded as the problem and refuses to give away any power? 

2. He only recently came to terms with the fact that he's the problem and has started to give way to KA? Adding an AGM and hopefully more. 

3. He has no idea he's the problem or refuses to believe it? 

Very possible it's #3. #2 we'll see.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

So, in essence, ever since the Pegula's bought the team, it has sucked

Nope.  Made the playoffs that first year.

Ever since the team fired Lindy Ruff, it has sucked.

[Curt]

17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I have to believe it all starts at the fracture point with Pat LaFontaine. Had they done whatever it was he wanted and let him run it all this might have all been totally different. The philosophical difference at that moment sent us down the wrong path. 

I've heard nothing to indicate in any way that the Pegulas finally realize they are wrong, and that they will turn it over to someone who really knows hockey. 

Maybe, but the hiring of Lafontaine itself is just representative of the Pegula ownership issues.

He was a great player of course, but was not qualified to be team president.  He had no management or front office experience at all.

The Pegulas hired him on a bit of a whim after having a nice dinner together or something like that, if my memory is correct.  The fact that he left the organization just a few months later just shows that the Pegulas and LaFontaine were never really on the same page regarding how the team should be run.

It was not a franchise inflection point, it was just the first in a long string of bad hires.

The Pegulas have done a very bad job hiring for the Sabres.  That’s been the major issue.

[thewookie1]

Pominville was who we needed to keep around last year, and even this year depending on how he was holding up. Hell Vanek would of been useful last year as well. They were both proud to be Buffalo Sabres, to wear our jersey, and fight for the fans.

The primary problem with the whole rebuild was the lack of any strings; nothing connects this team with the prior 40+ years. I will always be a fan of the tank as we were trapped in mediocrity but that was due in part thanks to the terrible drafting we've done for almost 2 decades. What the team needed to do was strip the roster but not to the degree they did. Miller would of prevented the tank so he's ruled out but either Vanek or Pominville plus a couple of our bottom six guys/Dmen would of sufficed. That is the one thing we did terribly wrong; we blew up everything versus stripping it down to the studs. We tried to replace everyone with savvy vets but none whom had specific loyalties to the team. The only guy who fit the category was Gionta, and he was here briefly as his career ran down. 

 

If I were in charge, at this point I would start inviting former captains and players who loved their time here to talk to the players during the offseason and sponsor team meetups to create a comradery between the players.  Have them watch old Sabres games from their heydays, show them without a doubt what it is like to play on a great Sabres team in this city. We may not be an original six city but we are certainly one of the most loyal and raucous fanbases in the league. They need to see that.  

[mjd1001]

According to the article, the Sabres are on a 14 game losing streak and the record is only 18?  Only 4 more to go, certainly within reach!

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

According to the article, the Sabres are on a 14 game losing streak and the record is only 18?  Only 4 more to go, certainly within reach!

Not exactly.  Officially, the Sabres are not on a 14 game losing streak.  They are on a 14 game winless streak.  A game that goes to OT does not count as a straight loss.  It’s dumb, but that’s how they do it.

[Eleven]

Just now, Curt said:

Not exactly.  Officially, the Sabres are not on a 14 game losing streak.  They are on a 14 game winless streak.  A game that goes to OT does not count as a straight loss.  It’s dumb, but that’s how they do it.

If this streak reaches 19, the NHL will find a way to brand the Sabres with it.  Same as how it found a way to deny Mogilny his 50 in 50.

[Marvin]

56 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Nope.  Made the playoffs that first year.

Ever since the team fired Lindy Ruff, it has sucked.

Honestly, that team was a lot of fun to watch once Miller, Vanek, Pominville, Myers, and a few others decided to carry the team on their backs.  There were games where it seemed like these guys just willed them to victories.

[JKB1646]

4 hours ago, Radar said:

One word! Ownership. Not coaching, GM's  or the equipment manager. Ownership responsible for all of it.

When everyone, including the media whine about ownership the conveniently forgot these are the same owners of the Buffalo Bills! Bills organization is glowing talked about on every media publication and on the airwaves from the east coast to the west as the shining example of how a winning organization should be built. 
Well aren’t these the same owners? What the Pegulas know how to run football and not hockey? it’s called business and he is a very successful business man. 
 

 

[PASabreFan]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

Nope.  Made the playoffs that first year.

Ever since the team fired Lindy Ruff, it has sucked.

Correlation doesn't equal causation. I'd go one step farther and say the thing that forced Lindy out the door was the same thing that caused the sucking.

[Eleven]

Just now, PASabreFan said:

Correlation doesn't equal causation. I'd go one step farther and say the thing that forced Lindy out the door was the same thing that caused the sucking.

And nine years says that the solution wasn't to fire him.  It's been long enough.  They've only been worse.  You and your crowd were wrong. Live with it.

 

 

[SwampD]

15 minutes ago, JKB1646 said:

When everyone, including the media whine about ownership the conveniently forgot these are the same owners of the Buffalo Bills! Bills organization is glowing talked about on every media publication and on the airwaves from the east coast to the west as the shining example of how a winning organization should be built. 
Well aren’t these the same owners? What the Pegulas know how to run football and not hockey? it’s called business and he is a very successful business man. 
 

 

This is a really stupid post. Who phucking cares?!

Yes. They may know how to run a football team (or have gotten lucky.)

Their record with the Sabres is the worst there ever has been in the history of the NHL. Good Job.

[PASabreFan]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

And nine years says that the solution wasn't to fire him.  It's been long enough.  They've only been worse.  You and your crowd were wrong. Live with it.

 

 

Lindy's mediocre coaching record post-Buffalo says otherwise.