An engrained losing culture

[PASabreFan]

"We have to start to improve. Of course, it's a results business."

—Kevyn Adams

He said it all. He voiced it. Of course, once he voiced it and realized he voiced it, he had to add, "Of course..."

We start with improvement! We develop young players. We build, slowly, toward dynasty. We evaluate. We (insert PSE corporate speak verb).

The message from Adams, and tomorrow from Granato, should have been, "We start to win. Tomorrow. At all costs. That's how everyone will be evaluated every day. This is a winning business."

Nothing changes until this changes. I mean, it's up there with the Pegulas sailing back to Boca.

[carpandean]

5 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

The message from Adams, and tomorrow from Granato, should have been, "We start to win. Tomorrow. At all costs. That's how everyone will be evaluated every day. This is a winning business."

😶

Quote

Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres’ sole reason for existence is to win the Stanley Cup.

It's just words ... until it's not.

Edited March 17, 2021 by carpandean

[Sabres Fan in NS]

We have heard this countless times over the last decade.

Well ... 

... we're waiting.

[Scottysabres]

As he spoke the words, the zoom room grew quiet, anticipation filled the air as reporters, fans, GM's, coaches and players from around the league tuned in, to be a part of the moment, yes, that moment, Kevyn Adams, General Manager of the Buffalo Sabres, addressed what has become a relentless free fall in to an abyss of pain and anguish not seen in the league since the infamous Great One trade from Edmonton. It was here, now, that the culmination of disasters had brought them all together. This is it, this is the moment this organization, this team, begins its march towards Lord Stanley's Cup.

Also, I have bridges for sale, aisle 5, only 18 left, first come, first serve. 🙂

[darksabre]

I don't know if "ingrained losing culture" is the right way to describe what is wrong with the organization.

I think a better way of looking at it might be "ingrained wishful thinking culture".

Almost all of the decisions the Pegulas have made since taking over the Sabres have been risky, but in a naive way rather than a bold way. Declaring you're going to win a Stanley Cup and then nuking the whole thing to tank for one player. Hiring first time head coaches, first time GMs, guys reported to be "savants" and "geniuses" of various cuts. And they haven't changed course with Adams in that respect.

It all ends up looking really...amateurish. Definitely not the work of anyone who actually knows what they're doing.

So that's what the Sabres are up against. How do you take this organization and turn it into one that is professional and respectable? How do you get back to the certain "essence" that inhabited the place when the Knoxes were running the show?

[I-90 W]

I’ll always be a Sabres fan but 10 plus years of this has sucked the love of hockey out of me. 

[Thorny]

14 minutes ago, I-90 W said:

I’ll always be a Sabres fan but 10 plus years of this has sucked the love of hockey out of me. 

have fun in st louis bucko

[3putt]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

I don't know if "ingrained losing culture" is the right way to describe what is wrong with the organization.

I think a better way of looking at it might be "ingrained wishful thinking culture".

Almost all of the decisions the Pegulas have made since taking over the Sabres have been risky, but in a naive way rather than a bold way. Declaring you're going to win a Stanley Cup and then nuking the whole thing to tank for one player. Hiring first time head coaches, first time GMs, guys reported to be "savants" and "geniuses" of various cuts. And they haven't changed course with Adams in that respect.

It all ends up looking really...amateurish. Definitely not the work of anyone who actually knows what they're doing.

So that's what the Sabres are up against. How do you take this organization and turn it into one that is professional and respectable? How do you get back to the certain "essence" that inhabited the place when the Knoxes were running the show?

This^

[Radar]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

I don't know if "ingrained losing culture" is the right way to describe what is wrong with the organization.

I think a better way of looking at it might be "ingrained wishful thinking culture".

Almost all of the decisions the Pegulas have made since taking over the Sabres have been risky, but in a naive way rather than a bold way. Declaring you're going to win a Stanley Cup and then nuking the whole thing to tank for one player. Hiring first time head coaches, first time GMs, guys reported to be "savants" and "geniuses" of various cuts. And they haven't changed course with Adams in that respect.

It all ends up looking really...amateurish. Definitely not the work of anyone who actually knows what they're doing.

So that's what the Sabres are up against. How do you take this organization and turn it into one that is professional and respectable? How do you get back to the certain "essence" that inhabited the place when the Knoxes were running the show?

The Knox's a class act. Boy I miss it. They just didn't have the deep enough pockets. They loved the team and Buffalo.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

I don't know if "ingrained losing culture" is the right way to describe what is wrong with the organization.

I think a better way of looking at it might be "ingrained wishful thinking culture".

Almost all of the decisions the Pegulas have made since taking over the Sabres have been risky, but in a naive way rather than a bold way. Declaring you're going to win a Stanley Cup and then nuking the whole thing to tank for one player. Hiring first time head coaches, first time GMs, guys reported to be "savants" and "geniuses" of various cuts. And they haven't changed course with Adams in that respect.

It all ends up looking really...amateurish. Definitely not the work of anyone who actually knows what they're doing.

So that's what the Sabres are up against. How do you take this organization and turn it into one that is professional and respectable? How do you get back to the certain "essence" that inhabited the place when the Knoxes were running the show?

You answered your own question.  You need another Knox's running the show.

[darksabre]

11 minutes ago, Weave said:

You answered your own question.  You need another Knox's running the show.

It's a distinct possibility that the Pegulas will never be able to inject the level of class into the Sabres that the team requires. 

[miles]

the sabres will win a couple in a row or like 4 out of 6 or something and then be horrible again. 

[dudacek]

17 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

the sabres will win a couple in a row or like 4 out of 6 or something and then be horrible again. 

Doubt it. I’m expecting a listless repeat of the Washington game tomorrow.

After that it will get a little better as we numbly slouch to the new coach’s arrival.

I have some hope that Dahlin and Skinner may respond, that a number of vets are quickly purged, and that Asplund, Borgen, Thompson, Jokiharju, Bryson and Mitts will be given a plenty of opportunity to sink or swim out the rest of the season.

Edited March 18, 2021 by dudacek

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Doubt it. I’m expecting a listless repeat of the Washington game.

Yup.  Between Jack being out and a cast of characters that have already given up, the on ice product probably won't be much different for the remainder of the season.

[Thorny]

I think we may see a bit of an uptick. Ralph's ES strategy was completely horrible. 

We may not win more but i think we'll put a few more pucks in the net 

[Scottysabres]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think we may see a bit of an uptick. Ralph's ES strategy was completely horrible. 

We may not win more but i think we'll put a few more pucks in the net 

I don't know, Adams speech wasn't exactly Herb Brooks and from the sounds of it, the players really liked Ralph. I mean, just look at that Montour post gamer, when asked about changes he looked and sounded like somebody was taking his puppy away.

I actually think the players may need a room full of coping coaches after today.

[I-90 W]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

have fun in st louis bucko

St Louis? I’m north of Albany. 
 

Nevermind, I get it now. Meh.
 

Edited March 18, 2021 by I-90 W
The ROR thing took me a minute

[SDS]

34 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think we may see a bit of an uptick. Ralph's ES strategy was completely horrible. 

We may not win more but i think we'll put a few more pucks in the net 

Statistically we should see an uptick. There are always random variations in any season, but coaches tend to get fired in a trough. Eventually the team reverts to the mean, so there’s a bit of fool’s gold as the team gets better, which they may have done regardless of the coaching change.

[Thorny]

10 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

I don't know, Adams speech wasn't exactly Herb Brooks and from the sounds of it, the players really liked Ralph. I mean, just look at that Montour post gamer, when asked about changes he looked and sounded like somebody was taking his puppy away.

I actually think the players may need a room full of coping coaches after today.

 

9 hours ago, SDS said:

Statistically we should see an uptick. There are always random variations in any season, but coaches tend to get fired in a trough. Eventually the team reverts to the mean, so there’s a bit of fool’s gold as the team gets better, which they may have done regardless of the coaching change.

That’s all fine. But people have complained endlessly about Ralph’s system and now the tune is “there will be no difference” aside from an uptick that was due anyways? 

Nah, I’m still expecting a little something. Krueger wasn’t THE problem but he was assuredly A problem. The schematic specifics are still being undervalued here 

[Kong]

I know some/most of you don't like Hamilton, but in his latest column I thought there were some interesting and revealing nuggets

Quote

I have never seen a team sloppier in practice than the Buffalo Sabres. Simple passes aren’t completed on a regular basis, and going offside during drills is a regular occurrence that is never corrected.

 

Quote

I can tell you many players on this team have no respect for this team’s history. Many of them wouldn’t know Gil Perreault, Danny Gare or Pat LaFontaine if they fell over them.

Many of us heard about Krueger, or whoever ran practices, not calling offsides in practice. We wonder why the Sabres can't complete simple passes like all the other NHL teams do...but I had no idea that many of these players don't know who Gilbert Perreault is. That blows my mind. These players need to be identified and jettisoned. I hate mercenaries and that's what many of "our" guys and perhaps Krueger, had in common.

[Scottysabres]

19 minutes ago, Kong said:

I know some/most of you don't like Hamilton, but in his latest column I thought there were some interesting and revealing nuggets

 

Many of us heard about Krueger, or whoever ran practices, not calling offsides in practice. We wonder why the Sabres can't complete simple passes like all the other NHL teams do...but I had no idea that many of these players don't know who Gilbert Perreault is. That blows my mind. These players need to be identified and jettisoned. I hate mercenaries and that's what many of "our" guys and perhaps Krueger, had in common.

This goes to the core of what Adam's said about pride and wearing the Sabres jersey to me.

There needs to be a much higher standard, and if talking with, meeting alumni from yester-years instills that, so let it be written, so let it be done.

Maybe a pre-seadon alumni bootcamp is what is required, with alumni screaming in their faces, bag skating them, 12 hour grueling runs around Western New York, rain, sleet, snow or shine. Whatever it takes.

[Randall Flagg]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

 

That’s all fine. But people have complained endlessly about Ralph’s system and now the tune is “there will be no difference” aside from an uptick that was due anyways? 

Nah, I’m still expecting a little something. Krueger wasn’t THE problem but he was assuredly A problem. The schematic specifics are still being undervalued here 

Probably because there's never been a more vague topic more consistently spoken of on this board. 

I know I was one of the most guilty ones of it for a long time, but the reality is nobody knows anything about "systems' or how much they impact things. 

When I did the Bylsma system thing, I wasn't even showing evidence of a "system" technically - I assumed that he instructed forwards to do one thing in one small area of the game (breakouts) and then counted outcomes of all breakouts over a span of 8 games. This is "sort of" analyzing a "system" but it's really analyzing hockey skills of players maybe or maybe not doing one of the 100 things they are told/encouraged/taught to do during one of 25 different common hockey scenarios. Hardly an overview of an entire "system"

 

[LGR4GM]

18 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

"We have to start to improve. Of course, it's a results business."

—Kevyn Adams

He said it all. He voiced it. Of course, once he voiced it and realized he voiced it, he had to add, "Of course..."

We start with improvement! We develop young players. We build, slowly, toward dynasty. We evaluate. We (insert PSE corporate speak verb).

The message from Adams, and tomorrow from Granato, should have been, "We start to win. Tomorrow. At all costs. That's how everyone will be evaluated every day. This is a winning business."

Nothing changes until this changes. I mean, it's up there with the Pegulas sailing back to Boca.

Got it, Adams didn't say exactly what you wanted to hear in the exact way you wanted to hear it. 

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Probably because there's never been a more vague topic more consistently spoken of on this board. 

I know I was one of the most guilty ones of it for a long time, but the reality is nobody knows anything about "systems' or how much they impact things. 

When I did the Bylsma system thing, I wasn't even showing evidence of a "system" technically - I assumed that he instructed forwards to do one thing in one small area of the game (breakouts) and then counted outcomes of all breakouts over a span of 8 games. This is "sort of" analyzing a "system" but it's really analyzing hockey skills of players maybe or maybe not doing one of the 100 things they are told/encouraged/taught to do during one of 25 different common hockey scenarios. Hardly an overview of an entire "system"

 

This. It's hard to judge a coach on systems or teaching, or leadership because we don't see what the coach is actually doing in any of these areas.

Our judgement is heavily weighted to results, plus player deployment and press conferences filtered through our own biases.

[inkman]

The Sabres are making beer?  They’ll need to engrain their yeast cultures at the right time to ingrain the flavor that leaves a bad taste in your mouth.