Lineup 2021-22

[#freejame]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart 

Hall - Cozens - Mitts 

Olofsson - Berniers - Quinn

Girgs - Lazar - Asplund 

McCabe-Risto

Dahlin-Borgen

Bryson-Miller

Ullmark

UPL 

I think there is just too much inexperience in this lineup and not enough change. I get the ideas you are going for, but I don't think any player we draft this season will get more than a cup of coffee and I would like to see Quinn develop a bit more in Rochester. We have been giving away roster spots for ten years when they need to be earned. It is a bit comforting that there seems to be a bit of a consensus that our D is in somewhat decent shape. 

[dudacek]

What needs to be emphasized here is the real opportunity that exists to blow up this team into something unrecognizable.

We have 11 UFAs you can trade or simply allow to walk entirely: Hall, Staal, Rieder, Sheahan, Montour, McCabe, Davidson, Irwin, Hutton, Johansson and Ullmark

We also have the ability buy out Eakin, Girgensons and Thompson for peanuts this summer if we want to, and the cost of buying out/burying Okposo starts to become realistic.

We're basically stuck with Skinner. Every other player has trade value, some of them (Eichel, Dahlin) have considerable value.

Reasonably speaking, Adams could choose to save $5 million by burying Okposo and buying out Girgensons, Eakin and Thompson, use this as his starting point this summer and build almost an entire roster from scratch:

• Top six: Skinner (untradable)
• Middle six: Cozens (why trade?)
• Bottom six: Lazar (under contract, good value)
• Forward depth: Ruotsalainen, Asplund
• Top four:
• Blueline depth: Bryson, Borgen, Laaksonen, Samuelsson
• Goalie: Lukkonnen, Tokarski

Then he can use

• ~ $24 million in tradable assets under contract (Eichel, Olofsson, Ristolainen, Miller)
• ~ $8 million (qualifying offers) in tradable RFA assets (Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Dahlin, Jokiharju)
•  ~ $62 million in cap space to fill out 16 roster slots

If Adams is truly angry, he has an extraordinary opportunity to do something about it.

Edited March 14, 2021 by dudacek

[Crusader1969]

11 minutes ago, #freejame said:

I think there is just too much inexperience in this lineup and not enough change. I get the ideas you are going for, but I don't think any player we draft this season will get more than a cup of coffee and I would like to see Quinn develop a bit more in Rochester. We have been giving away roster spots for ten years when they need to be earned. It is a bit comforting that there seems to be a bit of a consensus that our D is in somewhat decent shape. 

I get it but who are you filling in the lineup ?  Vets at NHL minimums just aren’t good enough 

Maybe the team would be so young they wouldn’t know they are supposed to struggle.  

[Crusader1969]

Not sure how you do it but this team needs an energy line.  Maybe Girgs and Lazar would be a start? 3 guys that go out there, can play and just run people over.  
 

 

[North Buffalo]

Doesnt matter til new coach better scouts

[thewookie1]

41 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What needs to be emphasized here is the real opportunity that exists to blow up this team into something unrecognizable.

We have 11 UFAs you can trade or simply allow to walk entirely: Hall, Staal, Rieder, Sheahan, Montour, McCabe, Davidson, Irwin, Hutton, Johansson and Ullmark

We also have the ability buy out Eakin, Girgensons and Thompson for peanuts this summer if we want to, and the cost of buying out/burying Okposo starts to become realistic.

We're basically stuck with Skinner. Every other player has trade value, some of them (Eichel, Dahlin) have considerable value.

Reasonably speaking, Adams could choose to save $5 million by burying Okposo and buying out Girgensons, Eakin and Thompson, use this as his starting point this summer and build almost an entire roster from scratch:

• Top six: Skinner (untradable)
• Middle six: Cozens (why trade?)
• Bottom six: Lazar (under contract, good value)
• Forward depth: Ruotsalainen, Asplund
• Top four:
• Blueline depth: Bryson, Borgen, Laaksonen, Samuelsson
• Goalie: Lukkonnen, Tokarski

Then he can use

• ~ $24 million in tradable assets under contract (Eichel, Olofsson, Ristolainen, Miller)
• ~ $8 million (qualifying offers) in tradable RFA assets (Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Dahlin, Jokiharju)
•  ~ $62 million in cap space to fill out 16 roster slots

If Adams is truly angry, he has an extraordinary opportunity to do something about it.

This is too radical in my opinion;I'd like a chance at the playoffs next year to prevent breaking the record.

I'd keep Eichel and Dahlin, trading top players gets us nowhere.

Reinhart depends on his ask.

What about Tage Thompson for Troy Terry?

I'd keep Olofsson as well unless someone blows me out of the water. Great PP producer and an ok 5v5 player. Sort of a mid 6 winger with an elite shot.

Girgensons I'd keep around, guy has never stopped working hard despite the terrible teams he's been on. 

I have no problem with jettisoning Eakin however, he's been a great disappointment. I had hoped to trade some of Larsson's D skill for more speed and offensive output but instead he has merely added speed at the cost of most defensive talent besides the PK. 

 

[Weave]

52 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What needs to be emphasized here is the real opportunity that exists to blow up this team into something unrecognizable.

We have 11 UFAs you can trade or simply allow to walk entirely: Hall, Staal, Rieder, Sheahan, Montour, McCabe, Davidson, Irwin, Hutton, Johansson and Ullmark

We also have the ability buy out Eakin, Girgensons and Thompson for peanuts this summer if we want to, and the cost of buying out/burying Okposo starts to become realistic.

We're basically stuck with Skinner. Every other player has trade value, some of them (Eichel, Dahlin) have considerable value.

Reasonably speaking, Adams could choose to save $5 million by burying Okposo and buying out Girgensons, Eakin and Thompson, use this as his starting point this summer and build almost an entire roster from scratch:

• Top six: Skinner (untradable)
• Middle six: Cozens (why trade?)
• Bottom six: Lazar (under contract, good value)
• Forward depth: Ruotsalainen, Asplund
• Top four:
• Blueline depth: Bryson, Borgen, Laaksonen, Samuelsson
• Goalie: Lukkonnen, Tokarski

Then he can use

• ~ $24 million in tradable assets under contract (Eichel, Olofsson, Ristolainen, Miller)
• ~ $8 million (qualifying offers) in tradable RFA assets (Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Dahlin, Jokiharju)
•  ~ $62 million in cap space to fill out 16 roster slots

If Adams is truly angry, he has an extraordinary opportunity to do something about it.

You complete me.

[LabattBlue]

Taylor Hall has been so mediocre, I am not sure I'd even want him re-signed at 4 mil per year on a multi-year deal.  He is either done, or going through the motions ala Eric Staal.

[GASabresIUFAN]

51 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What needs to be emphasized here is the real opportunity that exists to blow up this team into something unrecognizable.

We have 11 UFAs you can trade or simply allow to walk entirely: Hall, Staal, Rieder, Sheahan, Montour, McCabe, Davidson, Irwin, Hutton, Johansson and Ullmark

We also have the ability buy out Eakin, Girgensons and Thompson for peanuts this summer if we want to, and the cost of buying out/burying Okposo starts to become realistic.

We're basically stuck with Skinner. Every other player has trade value, some of them (Eichel, Dahlin) have considerable value.

Reasonably speaking, Adams could choose to save $5 million by burying Okposo and buying out Girgensons, Eakin and Thompson, use this as his starting point this summer and build almost an entire roster from scratch:

• Top six: Skinner (untradable)
• Middle six: Cozens (why trade?)
• Bottom six: Lazar (under contract, good value)
• Forward depth: Ruotsalainen, Asplund
• Top four:
• Blueline depth: Bryson, Borgen, Laaksonen, Samuelsson
• Goalie: Lukkonnen, Tokarski

Then he can use

• ~ $24 million in tradable assets under contract (Eichel, Olofsson, Ristolainen, Miller)
• ~ $8 million (qualifying offers) in tradable RFA assets (Reinhart, Mittelstadt, Dahlin, Jokiharju)
•  ~ $62 million in cap space to fill out 16 roster slots

If Adams is truly angry, he has an extraordinary opportunity to do something about it.

Interesting take and it's very possible some of this can happen.  Unfortunately TP isn't going all in on the buyout train even if KA had the apparent authority to make such moves.  You also aren't buying out Thompson.  It's cheaper and faster to trade him for peanuts or just bury him in the minors at a cost of $300 k for the next two years.  

I don't think it wise to trade Eichel and Dahlin.  Until this year Dahlin was developing towards the draft projections.  Get rid of RK and get a real coach and my guess is Dahlin returns to that growth curve.  Eichel is also not replaceable.  He just needs legit help.  Eakin and Girgensons are another issue.  I have zero problem with Z returning in his depth role and the money isn't an issue.  We'd need someone there anyway and at least Z is willing to skate and play hard.  Eakin to me is also a guy you demote to the minors and hope some grabs him.  Again buying him out is more expensive and a longer obligation then paying him in the minors and saving the 1.1 in cap each year.

The two guys I'd be interested in marketing are VO and Reinhart.  VO is a PP specialist and I think we'd get a decent forward in return.  To trade Reinhart, who has grown into our most consistent forward, would take a huge offer.  Unfortunately I have zero confidence in KA to evaluate the players value and if we trade Reinhart for an ROR type return, how does that take us forward?  Risto is a similar discussion.  

Also even if we cleared the deck and made 62 mill in cap available, who the heck is going to sign here?  No one unless we gave away more stupid over paying contracts.  

Until we get the management of this team in order, the team on the ice is going to stink and that is the way it is.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

This is too radical in my opinion;I'd like a chance at the playoffs next year to prevent breaking the record.

I'd keep Eichel and Dahlin, trading top players gets us nowhere.

Reinhart depends on his ask.

What about Tage Thompson for Troy Terry?

I'd keep Olofsson as well unless someone blows me out of the water. Great PP producer and an ok 5v5 player. Sort of a mid 6 winger with an elite shot.

Girgensons I'd keep around, guy has never stopped working hard despite the terrible teams he's been on. 

I have no problem with jettisoning Eakin however, he's been a great disappointment. I had hoped to trade some of Larsson's D skill for more speed and offensive output but instead he has merely added speed at the cost of most defensive talent besides the PK. 

 

You don’t need to trade all of the players that he listed out.  It’s just an acknowledgment that they are tradable.  The option exists.  There is an ability to make whatever change is needed in order to get this team on the right track.  No excuses.

[Marvin]

4 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Taylor Hall has been so mediocre, I am not sure I'd even want him re-signed at 4 mil per year on a multi-year deal.  He is either done, or going through the motions ala Eric Staal.

I would rather get Danault and Compher than have either of Hall and Staal next year.

I also feel better about Cozens than Staal at 2C.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Marvin, Sabres Fan
Accidentally hit submit on my phone.😄

[Andrew Amerk]

6 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Taylor Hall has been so mediocre, I am not sure I'd even want him re-signed at 4 mil per year on a multi-year deal.  He is either done, or going through the motions ala Eric Staal.

I don’t think Hall is done. I think he’s playing with a coach and a system that doesn’t know how to use him. Or Skinner or a dozen other players. 

I think he’s worth keeping if the Sabres are going to implement a veteran coach. If not, then flip him.

[Southtown Tommy]

11 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I can’t do this ... after another shutout, and yet another 3rd period with the game in reach and seeing no effort, 6 measly shots on goal and no fight in them.  Let’s start over with a new person at top of the Hockey Operations and a rebuild. Not a tank, just a targeted rebuild.  Like McDermott and Beane did in 2017 and 2018.  

Like McBeane showed us, you cannot change the culture and keep The Core.   IMO the core is the a main contributor to the culture, the players set the culture   - Risto, Eichel, Reinhart, Skinner, and Dahlin.  I’m tired of blaming coaches, these guys are coach killers.  They are the best players and they set the tone   That tone is to quit when it gets hard, to back away from confrontation, to play selfish, to hang heads and accept losing.  

Using the Bills as a model, some of the core needs to go.   It’s time for a fresh start with a new experienced GM that actually hires the coach and works with the coach - like normal teams do.  Move Adams to business front office, he can keep Kim informed.    

Reinhart and Dahlin should be part of the assets moving out of the core - need a hockey trade that shakes this team up.

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I don’t think Hall is done. I think he’s playing with a coach and a system that doesn’t know how to use him. Or Skinner or a dozen other players. 

I think he’s worth keeping if the Sabres are going to implement a veteran coach. If not, then flip him.

Eichel being definitely hurt since game one has altered my view on Hall. Maybe unfairly, but my expectations for Hall are higher as a supposedly MVP level player. The reason my opinion has shifted a bit is because we saw what a healthy Jack was able to do last year in this truly offending, putrid system - transcend it. Ya everyone on this team has sucked this year, but Jack likely looks wildly different healthy and I expect more from Hall, even in this bad system, as a healthy, supposedly top-notch player. 

Maybe he bounces back, but he's been trending down since his injury and at his age, I'm just not willing to risk a longer term deal even at something like 7 mil like is being projected. The Sabres can't afford to make a mistake on this, they should pass. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorny]

13 hours ago, Curt said:

You don’t need to trade all of the players that he listed out.  It’s just an acknowledgment that they are tradable.  The option exists.  There is an ability to make whatever change is needed in order to get this team on the right track.  No excuses.

The season we are currently in now was supposed to be that legendarily foretold, "this makes everything worth it" cap-space year in Botterill's apparent plan, right? Obviously that changed, and the opportunity for that has re-arisen for this summer. 

I very much like this line of thinking that there is a lot of flexibility, as it nips the "what could Adams have even done?" narrative in the bud immediately. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

The season we are currently in now was supposed to be that legendarily foretold, "this makes everything worth it" cap-space year in Botterill's apparent plan, right? Obviously that changed, and the opportunity for that has re-arisen for this summer. 

I very much like this line of thinking that there is a lot of flexibility, as it nips the "what could Adams have even done?" narrative in the bud immediately. 

KA had a ton of flexibility last off-season and look what he did with it. No goalie, no RW, term contracts to washed up players, over payments to current players including the unproven Thompson, $8 Mill to a LW we didn’t need.

Granted hindsight is 20/20 and we thought he did a solid job in his 1st off-season. I think we were partially blinded by the star power of Hall and Staal.  That said we all wondered were the goalie was.  

Given what we know now, do you really trust KA to get it right in year 2 without help?

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

KA had a ton of flexibility last off-season and look what he did with it. No goalie, no RW, term contracts to washed up players, over payments to current players including the unproven Thompson, $8 Mill to a LW we didn’t need.

Granted hindsight is 20/20 and we thought he did a solid job in his 1st off-season. I think we were partially blinded by the star power of Hall and Staal.  That said we all wondered were the goalie was.  

Given what we know now, do you really trust KA to get it right in year 2 without help?

To answer your question, no, I don’t. I think it’s possible, but even with excuses considered, fielding the so-far worst performing Sabres roster in the history of Sabres rosters does not allow one to expect quite literally anything from said GM/organization. 

“Hindsight” caveat is erroneous. 

[bob_sauve28]

RJ has a guy crush on Hutton? 💜 

[bob_sauve28]

Wow, just wow. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Now that RK is gone and his vision with him, who is the core going forward?

i doubt KA has the guts to trade Eichel, Reinhart and Dahlin.  I maybe in the minority but I actually want all 3 back.  I think Sam is one of the only players that plays hard each night. 

Obviously Cozens will be back longterm.  I also think Lazar is back for next season and maybe beyond.

Skinner returns because of his contract.  He might be the happiest person in America    right now.

Who else? Mitts will be cheap to bring back.  I like his progress but the new coach is going to have to help him thrive. 

Not really a long list.  

I’m going to assume all the UFA want to go elsewhere.  Montour, Hall and Staal need to be traded before they walk. 

Risto and Olofsson are our best trade pieces and that’s really it after the UFAs. 

 

[dudacek]

I will be very surprised if all three of Sam, Risto and Jack are back.

I don’t want stupid trades for the sake of trades, but I will support the trade of anyone for the right return.

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by dudacek

[dudacek]

I just don’t see Kevyn Adams as at all invested in this roster and I think he genuinely understands the need for significant change.

Jeff Skinner, Dylan Cozens, Curtis Lazar are the only players on this roster guaranteed to be back next year, in my opinion.

Cozens and Lazar because they are under contract and have the compete Adams has identified as missing.

Skinner, of course, is untradeable.

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I just don’t see Kevyn Adams as at all invested in this roster and I think he genuinely understands the need for significant change.

Jeff Skinner, Dylan Cozens, Curtis Lazar are the only players on this roster guaranteed to be back next year, in my opinion.

Cozens and Lazar because they are under contract and have the compete Adams has identified as missing.

Skinner, of course, is untradeable.

im ready

[dudacek]

Don’t get me wrong. Girgensons will almost certainly be here. 

We arent trading all of Jack, Sam, Victor, Risto, Dahlin, Joki, Miller, Thompson, Eakin and Mitts.

But some of the above will be moved, and probably all of Staal, Hall, Sheahan, Rieder, Montour, McCabe, Irwin, Ullmark, Hutton and maybe even Okposo aren’t coming back.

It will be a different team, if nothing else.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Have Rieder and Sheahan looked good because they have been good or just better then the rest of the crap on the roster?