bob_sauve28 Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 🥺 Quote Goaltending hasn’t been the primary reason for the Sabres sitting last in the NHL with 16 points in 25 games. Wrong. https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/jonas-johansson-carter-hutton-havent-bailed-out-sabres-struggling-offense/article_c8a92f22-836c-11eb-96e9-4353428af438.html I'm reading this article and just want to scream. So many interesting little nuggets of...well...nuggets: Quote Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman reported recently that the Colorado Avalanche expressed interest in trading for Johansson. 🤣 Quote With Hutton likely to depart this summer, and prospect Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen at least one year away from the NHL, the Sabres can use the coming weeks to evaluate Johansson as a potential backup option for next season. He’s shown enough promise that General Manager Kevyn Adams opted to not claim any of the several goalies that were placed on waivers the past two months, including Alex Stalock, a 33-year-old who had a .910 save percentage in 33 games for Minnesota last season. 😐 Quote Hutton will have the opportunity to build on his sterling track record against the Penguins, a team he’s controlled to the tune of a 5-1 record and .940 save percentage in eight career appearances. 😄 Quote “I think our goaltending has been solid,” Adams said during a conference call with reporters last week. “Looking back, after the 18- or 19-game mark, we were probably in the middle of the pack with goaltending and I think in the top 10 in slot save chances. So, some of the data and analytics, the goaltending’s been fine. I think Linus, before he got hurt, was playing at a very, very high level. We just flat out haven’t been good enough around him.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) He says “goaltending” because Ullmark was pretty good and isolating the backup position alone yields horrendous results. Ullmark was already here. Adams neglected the position. He totally botched the necessary backup add and if he can’t admit that, I have zero confidence in his ability to evaluate roster needs Edited March 13, 2021 by Thorny 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Forecheck Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Pretty disingenuous to include Ullmark's solid play, and ignore the other 2 since game 18 or whatever Adams said. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Just now, Torpedo Forecheck said: Pretty disingenuous to include Ullmark's solid play, and ignore the other 2 since game 18 or whatever Adams said. “The part most people didn’t think I necessarily needed to upgrade is good” Dunce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Forecheck Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said: 🥺 Wrong. https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/jonas-johansson-carter-hutton-havent-bailed-out-sabres-struggling-offense/article_c8a92f22-836c-11eb-96e9-4353428af438.html I'm reading this article and just want to scream. So many interesting little nuggets of...well...nuggets: 🤣 😐 😄 Bob I share your pain. Coaching and Goaltending (both starter, backup and third goalie) are as important as it gets. We just dropped the ball, screwed up and refuse to deal with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thwomp! Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) Sorry but I agree with Adams assessment that we haven't been good in front of our goaltenders. I think we're so upset that he didn't upgrade the backup position that we're giving our even worst defense a free ride at times. Solid?? Now I wouldn't go that far. Since Ulmark went down I wouldn't say solid. Edited March 13, 2021 by Radar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Is Hutton better or worse this season vs when he had his eye problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 minute ago, pi2000 said: Is Hutton better or worse this season vs when he had his eye problem? About the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Radar said: Sorry but I agree with Adams assessment that we haven't been good in front of our goaltenders. I think we're so upset that he didn't upgrade the backup position that we're giving our even worst defense a free ride at times. Solid?? Now I wouldn't go that far. Since Ulmark went down I wouldn't say solid. We have played poor defence The goaltending has also been bad Ullmark has been pretty good The output from the goaltending position as a unit has been poor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Radar said: Sorry but I agree with Adams assessment that we haven't been good in front of our goaltenders. I think we're so upset that he didn't upgrade the backup position that we're giving our even worst defense a free ride at times. Solid?? Now I wouldn't go that far. Since Ulmark went down I wouldn't say solid. The team plays differently in front of Hutton because it has to. It doesn't have the confidence in him that it has in Ullmark (as it shouldn't). And even Ullmark is just ok. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thorny said: We have played poor defence The goaltending has also been bad Defense in my opinion if you deduct empty net goals has been even worst. I guess we can agree that goalkeeper has been less than stellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Eleven said: The team plays differently in front of Hutton because it has to. It doesn't have the confidence in him that it has in Ullmark (as it shouldn't). And even Ullmark is just ok. Then your saying they play more defensive with Hutton? Wow, then they would be atrocious in front of Ulmark. Their bad defensively and bad offensively as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, pi2000 said: Is Hutton better or worse this season vs when he had his eye problem? I looked it up... During his googly eyes episode he had a record of 0-4-3 with a sv% of .855. This season a "healthy" Hutton has a sv% of .883. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Just now, Radar said: Then your saying they play more defensive with Hutton? Wow, then they would be atrocious in front of Ulmark. Their bad defensively and bad offensively as well. They are more timid in front of Hutton. Just now, pi2000 said: I looked it up... During his googly eyes episode he had a record of 0-4-3 with a sv% of .855. This season a "healthy" Hutton has a sv% of .883. An improvement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, pi2000 said: I looked it up... During his googly eyes episode he had a record of 0-4-3 with a sv% of .855. This season a "healthy" Hutton has a sv% of .883. Still not very good. But improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruppstahl Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 I am in favor of replacing our goalies with Don Edwards and Bob Sauve. No, that's not a thought experiment. I don't mean go back in time and put young Edwards and Sauve on the current team. I mean using them right now at their current ages. It couldn't be worse and it would be fun to cheer for those guys again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Ullmark has been solid I'm still willing to give Adams the benefit of doubt on why he didn't upgrade the backup position. We have only the knowledge that nothing concrete occurred but plenty of rumors that he has been hunting for upgrades. They don't exactly have a ton of cap space either to just throw in a goalie trade without Hutton departing with it. The prices on trade candidates might just be to exorbitant to be worth it. In the end, he chose Taylor Hall over a goalie upgrade as we saw the opportunity to get MAF. Adams was likely counting on our scoring being better and with Ullmark having an above average season we should of been playoff worthy. Sadly, Hall has been mostly a bust and Ullmark was injured leading to us having zero goaltending and still little scoring. I wouldn't of traded our 1st for any of the likely goalie candidates available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 minute ago, thewookie1 said: Ullmark has been solid I'm still willing to give Adams the benefit of doubt on why he didn't upgrade the backup position. We have only the knowledge that nothing concrete occurred but plenty of rumors that he has been hunting for upgrades. They don't exactly have a ton of cap space either to just throw in a goalie trade without Hutton departing with it. The prices on trade candidates might just be to exorbitant to be worth it. In the end, he chose Taylor Hall over a goalie upgrade as we saw the opportunity to get MAF. Adams was likely counting on our scoring being better and with Ullmark having an above average season we should of been playoff worthy. Sadly, Hall has been mostly a bust and Ullmark was injured leading to us having zero goaltending and still little scoring. I wouldn't of traded our 1st for any of the likely goalie candidates available. So what's to stop the bold from being the case this summer, then? If those things happen again, and they easily could, are you ok with Hutton entering into next year as the backup again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted March 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said: I am in favor of replacing our goalies with Don Edwards and Bob Sauve. No, that's not a thought experiment. I don't mean go back in time and put young Edwards and Sauve on the current team. I mean using them right now at their current ages. It couldn't be worse and it would be fun to cheer for those guys again! Adams and Krueger just don't have the mental toughness or something. Hutton should of just been waived and someone should have been claimed off of waivers or traded for. JJ might still get better, but Hutton is finished. Lindy Ruff would call out Miller sometimes for goals he maybe should have stopped, but this crew are afraid to say anything bad about anyone on the team. 2 minutes ago, Thorny said: So what's to stop the bold from being the case this summer, then? If those things happen again, and they easily could, are you ok with Hutton entering into next year as the backup again? NO and Hell No!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thorny said: So what's to stop the bold from being the case this summer, then? If those things happen again, and they easily could, are you ok with Hutton entering into next year as the backup again? No, and his contract is up. I'll give Adams the mulligan on year 0's offseason for goaltending. If he brings Hutton back or any other terrible candidates though, I'll no longer be willing to sympathize with his present predicaments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, thewookie1 said: No, and his contract is up. I'll give Adams the mulligan on year 0's offseason for goaltending. If he brings Hutton back or any other terrible candidates though, I'll no longer be willing to sympathize with his present predicaments. By why did he get the benefit this year? What's the difference between this year and next? Edited March 13, 2021 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Just now, Thorny said: By why did he get the benefit this year? What's the difference between this year and next? This year he was thrust into the position and had to deal with multiple circumstances which would of muddled the goalie trade market. Teams needing 3 goalies being the primary one. There were only 3 goalie related trades the entire offseason; Allen to MTL which was early in the offseason (prior to the draft) Devon Dubnyk being shipped to the SJS in what was seemingly a cap dump and Matt Murray's RFA rights going to Ottawa. Of the three, Matt Murray was an RFA which ended up costing $6.25mil a year even with having a rough season last year. Dubynk was quite literally dumped for a 5th and had a terrible year last year. And lastly Allen, arguably the best of the group, but was acquired prior to the draft and was the 2nd trade overall. Adams supposedly went after a few goalies but even if he had hoped the regular season might help one shake loose; the league implemented a taxi squad with a minimum of one goalie just prior to the season starting which would of effectively killed the market instantaneously and/or made the prices sky rocket. Next year will be more of a typical offseason and Hutton, Ullmark, and Johansson are not under contract. There are no strings to the first two and Johansson is supposedly being shopped. And perhaps this offseason Adams will actually get some experienced help..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 minute ago, thewookie1 said: This year he was thrust into the position and had to deal with multiple circumstances which would of muddled the goalie trade market. Teams needing 3 goalies being the primary one. There were only 3 goalie related trades the entire offseason; Allen to MTL which was early in the offseason (prior to the draft) Devon Dubnyk being shipped to the SJS in what was seemingly a cap dump and Matt Murray's RFA rights going to Ottawa. Of the three, Matt Murray was an RFA which ended up costing $6.25mil a year even with having a rough season last year. Dubynk was quite literally dumped for a 5th and had a terrible year last year. And lastly Allen, arguably the best of the group, but was acquired prior to the draft and was the 2nd trade overall. Adams supposedly went after a few goalies but even if he had hoped the regular season might help one shake loose; the league implemented a taxi squad with a minimum of one goalie just prior to the season starting which would of effectively killed the market instantaneously and/or made the prices sky rocket. Next year will be more of a typical offseason and Hutton, Ullmark, and Johansson are not under contract. There are no strings to the first two and Johansson is supposedly being shopped. And perhaps this offseason Adams will actually get some experienced help..... Good points. You've done a great job outlining why the trade would have been a difficult one to make. But the fact that there were 3, means there could have been 4. In the end it comes down to evaluation - we *could not* have been successful with what we entered into the season with, in net. I would argue that can't ever be an acceptable result/evaluation - if KA thought Hutton would be good enough in a backup role, he was wrong. If he was simply unwilling to pay the price but knew it was necessary, it brings into question his team building ability and more importantly - the structure of his priorities as a GM. What could the cost of the asset possibly be that you were willing to turn an upgrade down and, because of it, willingly miss the playoffs? And again, if Adams thought Hutton wasn't necessarily so poor that he guaranteed that scenario even with a better roster around him, his asset evaluation was terrible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) He's actively terrible in net. Sometimes you need to demand more than the worst possible in the role. He literally could not have done worse. The expectation for competently filling a position doesn't change because of the varying degree of difficulty. Edited March 13, 2021 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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