Rumor: Sabres looking for help to run team

[GASabresIUFAN]

I feel like we are going through the 1st Edm rebuild when they drafted Hall, Yakupov, and RNH and failed to improve.  Didn't draft D.  Then they ended up with McDavid and Leon and are slowly progressing.  

Now we have added one of their failed prospects and one of their failed coaches and surprise surprise we are getting those same results.

As to the tank, teams rebuild all the time, every year and at every trade deadline.  Contenders buy good players from bad teams and pay in futures (draft picks and prospects).  Maybe they don't go crazy like we did, but it happens all the time and sometimes to the same extent as ours.  Some work, many don't.

We have had this discussion all the time.  We can review the bad decisions by TM and Jbot ad nauseum, but where does it get us?

Our hope now is top get a competent coach, competent senior management, and hope that the kids develop quickly (Johnson, Samuelsson, UPL, Cozens, Mitts, Samuelsson, JJP, and Quinn) creating the organizational depth we have lacked for a decade.  We also need to stick with these kids and not trade them away.   If it ruins Jack's prime, so be it.  He is the present and no longer the future. 

  

Edited March 4, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[SDS]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

Keep your butterscotches in your back right pocket?

I like to jingle them in my front left. 

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

The year we competed with Arizona for the bottom took out more than what was normally necessarily. More than teams like Toronto sacrificed. 

Agree. We lost Myers, Stafford, our goalies when they got hot like Neuvirth, Enroth, our soul, Torrey Mitchell, Brian Flynn..

[SDS]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Agree. We lost Myers, Stafford, our goalies when they got hot like Neuvirth, Enroth, our soul, Torrey Mitchell, Brian Flynn..

All I remember is the constant 1-upsmansship on the way to the bottom 

[erickompositör72]

39 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The tank worked, the rebuild failed, multiple times due to chronic mismanagement of professional and draft assets. 

You're splitting hairs to benefit your tenuous argument.

 

I'll say it again- it's like saying McKinley didn't die from a gunshot wound, but rather, he died from sepsis. 

 

Does anyone doubt the gunshot had something to do with it?

[Randall Flagg]

Tobias Rieder was on fire that spring for the Coyotes. He may by himself be a single reason we drafted Jack instead of Dylan Strome.

Never even made the connection until right now. He seems to have been alright for us this year no?

[SwampD]

30 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I will scream this into the void of this godforsaken forum until it is understood, the Sabres problems all come back to one thing, drafting. 

Nylander instead of Sergachev

Johnson instead of Robertson or Hoglander

Asplund instead of Kyrou or Debrincat

Davidson instead of Comtois

Quinn instead of Jarvis

I can go on but they are easy fixes using analytics and cohorts for drafting as opposed to whatever it is they have used for years. Until the Sabres fix their drafting, nothing else matters. 

 

So, the problem was drafting...

... and your solution is getting rid of what assets we did have, creating a situation where drafting becomes even more important...

Seems like a good plan.

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by SwampD

[Huckleberry]

1 hour ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

My insider tells me they're looking for a 12 person panel selected from Sabrespace. 3 pure analytics types, 3 old schoolers and 6  in the middle. Hope it doesn't end up like Politics!

No talk of new european scout ? I can scout germany, netherlands, belgium france and spain for them, (especially the very promising hockey league in ibiza several times a year).

[Torpedo Forecheck]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

No talk of new european scout ? I can scout germany, netherlands, belgium france and spain for them, (especially the very promising hockey league in ibiza several times a year).

If I was in charge we would definately take a look at your proposal

[LGR4GM]

22 minutes ago, SwampD said:

So, the problem was drafting...

... and your solution is getting rid of what assets we did have, creating a situation where drafting becomes even more important...

Seems like a good plan.

 

That is literally why they tanked, to make sure they would successful draft top end talent. 

Here's a question, where would the Sabres be without Eichel and Reinhart currently? 

[SwampD]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

That is literally why they tanked, to make sure they would successful draft top end talent. 

Here's a question, where would the Sabres be without Eichel and Reinhart currently? 

It's impossible to answer that question.

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

You're splitting hairs to benefit your tenuous argument.

 

I'll say it again- it's like saying McKinley didn't die from a gunshot wound, but rather, he died from sepsis. 

 

Does anyone doubt the gunshot had something to do with it?

This is the same revisionist argument anti-tank ppl have been making for years. The team was bad 2013. It is not like getting shot and dying from something later it is like being in a hospital with heart failure and being shot... same outcome, one just sped up the process. 

Here is the 2013 Sabres, that we are upset we started selling off in the summer of 2013. I mean... the team was bad and lacked talent then. 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/BUF/2013.html

Here's 2012 https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/BUF/2012.html

Not exactly a powerhouse going on.

Here is 2014

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/BUF/2014.html

I mean, the only difference from 2012 to 2014 is that the top 2 guys were gone, everything else is basically the same. The team was going downhill and everyone seems to think we were some perennial playoff team. 

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

It's impossible to answer that question.

It is. But we are living in your hypothetical where the tank never happened. I don't think we would be better off at all, in fact we would probably have naturally tanked in 2016 due to Hodgson getting sick and the lack of underlying talent. 

[Scottysabres]

2 hours ago, john wawrow said:

 

I apologized because this is the second time in three months I've asked this person the same question. The first time, was after a secondary source I trust informed me of the possibility. That rumor was knocked down quickly.

So when this latest one popped up, I knew there were serious questions in regards to it, based on the source it was coming from, so I apologized in asking yet again knowing the report was very likely not accurate, and I was wasting everyone's time.

The last time Frank Wolf thought he broke a story about something, I checked up on it and was immediately told it was not true. I then approached Frank in the pressbox to inform him what I was told.

Frank shrugged and said, "Oops." And that was it.

When it comes to putting sourced information out there, this is not a reasonable or professional response.

But of course, you know better.

 

jw

Just keep on reporting John. It is what it is.

On that note, what exactly are we looking at here, if your somewhat aware that is? Are we looking at an experienced hockey operations individual as an avenue to attempt to right the ship?

[SDS]

6 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Just keep on reporting John. It is what it is.

On that note, what exactly are we looking at here, if your somewhat aware that is? Are we looking at an experienced hockey operations individual as an avenue to attempt to right the ship?

As of now, my guess is that it’s all bunk. 🤷🏻

[Scottysabres]

Just now, Let's Go B-Lo said:

I meet all of their criteria. I'm available. I'm willing to take the job. I'm cheap. I have absolutely no experience whatsoever.

And as your self appointed agent, I concur you will come cheap, the Pegula's can then pay my meager half a million dollar fee. Thanks for caring enough about the team 😉

[SwampD]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It is. But we are living in your hypothetical where the tank never happened. I don't think we would be better off at all, in fact we would probably have naturally tanked in 2016 due to Hodgson getting sick and the lack of underlying talent. 

My answer is then, "We couldn't be any worse and we wouldn't have been subjected to 2+ years of record-settingly bad hockey followed by 6+ more trying to climb out of the talent hole created by the Tank."

If the tank was from the trade deadline until the end of the season, sure, go for it. But it was more than 2 years.

Let me say that again, to remind myself it actually happened, we tried to lose for over 2 years,...

Jebus.

[Marvin]

If they kick KA upstairs, would a consortium of people from this board whom we all agreed upon be acceptable?

[etiennep99]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Yes.  Thanks for the reminder.

GMTM was the first post tank failure at the rebuild.

GMTM got them a #1LW, #1C, #1RW, best in the league #2C, and a #1G.  GMTM just blew it when he drafted Nylander instead of Sergachev, MacAvoy, Chychrun, or Fabbro. [He apparently totally blew it when he used the B word in relation to Kim.]

Then in same draft, he traded away an NHL(6-7) D in Pysyk to draft Asplund who hasn't really cracked the line-up yet, even as 4C. He missed on DeBrincat, but 29 other teams did too.  Sam Girard was drafted in the 2nd round of the same 2016 draft.  Oh the possibilities.

Edited March 4, 2021 by etiennep99
Added B word

[DeleteThisAccount]

25 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Just keep on reporting John. It is what it is.

On that note, what exactly are we looking at here, if your somewhat aware that is? Are we looking at an experienced hockey operations individual as an avenue to attempt to right the ship?

Unsure. There is beginning to be an acknowledgement there is a huge mess that needs to be cleaned up. The question is how far team can go before season is up, and whether it extends into the offseason. The Rutherford stuff is an interesting connection, but haven't been able to connect many dots yet.

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, john wawrow said:

Unsure. There is beginning to be an acknowledgement there is a huge mess that needs to be cleaned up. The question is how far team can go before season is up, and whether it extends into the offseason. The Rutherford stuff is an interesting connection, but haven't been able to connect many dots yet.

Thank you very much, John.

I was wondering how you felt about what can fix this season, if anything.  I can't believe the talent they have performs so badly so routinely.

[SDS]

13 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

Unsure. There is beginning to be an acknowledgement there is a huge mess that needs to be cleaned up. The question is how far team can go before season is up, and whether it extends into the offseason. The Rutherford stuff is an interesting connection, but haven't been able to connect many dots yet.

I would like to know if there’s any real indication how the players felt towards the head coach. The fans seem to have turned on him and we hear public statements from everyone, but I wonder what the team thinks off the record.

[That Aud Smell]

20 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

Unsure. There is beginning to be an acknowledgement there is a huge mess that needs to be cleaned up. The question is how far team can go before season is up, and whether it extends into the offseason. The Rutherford stuff is an interesting connection, but haven't been able to connect many dots yet.

And maybe ... maybe the person who's qualified to clean up that mess is ... just hear me out ... maybe that person (well, that person's agent) is asking to be compensated in part through a very small equity stake in the franchise (and also proposed that he serve as an alternate governor, or whatever it was that Larry Quinn (and Ted Black?) used to do).

[PASabreFan]

First Cozens and now this gets leaked. It makes me wonder if there's a dying fire here and someone wants to kick at the embers, keep hope alive. The people will get what they want?

[PASabreFan]

53 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

If they kick KA upstairs, would a consortium of people from this board whom we all agreed upon be acceptable?

If I'm hearing you right, you're proposing a bored board board to run the Sabres?

[Scottysabres]

40 minutes ago, john wawrow said:

Unsure. There is beginning to be an acknowledgement there is a huge mess that needs to be cleaned up. The question is how far team can go before season is up, and whether it extends into the offseason. The Rutherford stuff is an interesting connection, but haven't been able to connect many dots yet.

Appreciate the response John.

Candid conversations between the media, the analytic and the eye test fans is a welcomed atmosphere.

As always I remain hopeful other media representation, both local as well as league (yes, I'd like The Athletic and TSN accounts on here to mingle with the Sabres fan base from time to time) find their way to this community. Wishful thinking? If you could pass the word that would be wonderful, and of course, the commentors would have to behave (except PA, there is no stopping a crusader 🙂 ).

And a big thank you to SDS for creating the space for us to get together and speak.