Should Pro Sports "Jump the Line" for a Vaccine?

[Marvin]

No.  Players are in one of the lowest risk groups by age.

CAVEAT: (this may be deemed political; I understand the opposing view but felt it important to give my exception.  Edit or move if you deem it necessary.)  Because of the history of mistreatment of Native American and African Americans in particular by the US government (e.g., small pox blankets, Tuskegee Airmen), I think that minority celebrities of all stripes, such as MLB players, hip-hop musicians, and guys like Ted Nolan, need to be in the same group as teachers.  The level of distrust in those communities makes it imperative to convince minorities to get the shots or it will take even longer to get back to normal.  This is also why I think we need to help vaccinate the world.

I put myself at the back of the line.  I have anti-bodies, for one.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Marvin, Sabres Fan
Question on politics

[SwampD]

27 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Arguments can be made for those who take care of our food supply, those who take care of children and the infirm, those who go into houses to repair your AC or to restore the blessed cable box on which you watch hockey, those who tend to the needy, those who deal with criminals (no that's not what I do), veterinarians, haircutters, the criminals who are incarcerated themselves, those who go live for news, those who govern, those who do just about ANYTHING freaking else but entertain.

I'll put myself at the bottom of the list.

EDIT:  There are many excellent re-runs available for free on Pluto or whatever, and most North American libraries have electronic loans, for those truly starved for entertainment.  For me, I'd rather have the vulnerable inoculated so that I can have society.  More important than entertainment.

Gottit. So, only those who are old or sick and most likely to die are allowed to restart their lives first. If you are young or healthy, you have to wait.

[#freejame]

14 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

No.  Players are in one of the lowest risk groups by age.

CAVEAT: Because of the history of mistreatment of Native American and African Americans in particular by the US government (e.g., small pox blankets, Tuskegee Airmen), I think that minority celebrities of all stripes, such as MLB players, hip-hop musicians, and guys like Ted Nolan, need to be in the same group as teachers.  The level of distrust in those communities makes it imperative to convince minorities to get the shots or it will take even longer to get back to normal.  This is also why I think we need to help vaccinate the world.

I put myself at the back of the line.  I have anti-bodies, for one.

Are minorities not more likely to refuse the vaccine for the very reasons you listed? Pretty sure historically speaking that is true. Also don’t think that’s the best idea, prioritizing one race over another is not the way to go about things. 

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

Gottit. So, only those who are old or sick and most likely to die are allowed to restart their lives first. If you are young or healthy, you have to wait.

I don’t know a single young and healthy person not living their normal life outside of working from home. At the same, I know probably about 30 people who have tested positive (myself included) and only two or three have been sick. Cant say many in the under 30 crowd give a *****, at least not here. 

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, #freejame said:

Are minorities not more likely to refuse the vaccine for the very reasons you listed? Pretty sure historically speaking that is true. Also don’t think that’s the best idea, prioritizing one race over another is not the way to go about things. 

Absolutely on the reasons.  Further explanations from me will belong in the politics board.

Your point of view makes sense to me too; indeed, stating what I did rubs *me* the wrong way.  I figure this is just more emotionally charged for me.

[Indabuff]

22 minutes ago, #freejame said:

smoking, drinking, eating smoked meats, and having unprotected sex with strangers. 

Does finally having time and energy to have sex with my wife after three months count as sex with a stranger?  If so I check all these boxes.

In all seriousness though I think it's a good question but a hot-button topic.  

[Brawndo]

With the limited supply of vaccine available, there is no way that athletes should be anywhere near the front of the line. 
 

Once the supply is adequate, athletes, entertainers and celebrities should be amongst the first to receive the vaccine and become part of one of largest PSA Campaigns to promote the general public receiving the vaccine 
 

 

[Eleven]

15 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Gottit. So, only those who are old or sick and most likely to die are allowed to restart their lives first. If you are young or healthy, you have to wait.

Is that what I said above?  About parents with children in long-term care?  Let's be intellectually honest, please.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

I'm just going to add:  It's 8 billion (ok, 7.7 billion if you're being finicky) and not 329 million.  This world is bigger than the US.  You (whoever is reading this) and I (me) are no more important than some man in Montevideo (most awesome capital name ever) or some woman in Kathmandu (second most awesome).

 

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

PS.  Our job is not to protect the 8 billion in the world.  Are we supposed to send 2500 extra doses to China.  Seriously? We need to protect all our citizens and residents before 1 dose goes elsewhere.  Once that’s completed, then we can mobilize to help in places that can’t help themsleves.

 

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Yes, it is.  We all are people.  You and I are not more or less important than anyone else just because we're American.

My view on this:

The US should first worry about vaccinating our most vulnerable and those most likely to catch and spread it.  In my mind, that encompasses something around 75% of the population, but I’m no expert.

Beyond that, I think there are extremely valid arguments for putting a lot of effort into helping to make sure that those who are most likely to catch and spread Covid worldwide are vaccinated, even if you are looking at it from an “America First” type of perspective.  Having Covid raging in 3rd world countries puts the US at serious risk because this virus mutates, and the more cases there are worldwide, the more chances there are for a more deadly and/or contagious strain to pop up, possibly one that currently developed vaccines are ineffective against.  If a strain such as that starts spreading it will not respect international borders.  It will be in the US as well, and everyone could be back in the ***** for months and months until we get a vaccine that works.  The US does not exist in a silo.

Its not about being a bleeding heart.  This is not a moral question for me.  It’s a question of what is the fastest way to make it safe for everyone to go back to normal social/public activities.  At a certain point it just makes sense to help other countries, even if some fraction of the US population is yet unvaccinated.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Curt

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Is that what I said above?  About parents with children in long-term care?  Let's be intellectually honest, please.

I know I’m boiling it down, as well.

Anything but entertain,...

So, it’s way more important for people to be able to make cheap crap that will be in a landfill in 2 years, or style someone’s hair. Just be a good stay at home robot. Those people matter more,... k

[PromoTheRobot]

Absolutely not.

[#freejame]

19 minutes ago, Indabuff said:

Does finally having time and energy to have sex with my wife after three months count as sex with a stranger?  If so I check all these boxes.

In all seriousness though I think it's a good question but a hot-button topic.  

One thing that has bothered me is that many people aren’t admitting their own flaws when it comes to their risks of Covid. I fully understood my actions would likely result in me getting Covid and lo and behold I got Covid. I don’t know if there are many overweight individuals who have that same stance.
 

We all live the lives we lead. We all need to acknowledge our risks and judge them against what alternatives do to our quality of life. I spent the first two months by myself as a single man living alone and would not have lasted this long had I continued to down that path. It was not worth it to me to keep living that way, but that does not mean I threw caution to the wind. It took me five exposures to finally get it though and now I’m negative, still quarantining since I’m about to travel, but fully prepared to continue living my best life. 

Anyway, give professional athletes vaccines sooner than later. Another nonsense baseball season like last season isn’t worth it. Based on the science I’ve seen, NHL isn’t practical without vaccines either, but it’s too soon into distribution to jump the line. Allegedly Congress reached out to the MLBPA about delaying the season (which the owners want) in order to vaccinate players. Congress will always care about baseball more than other sports so it wouldn’t surprise me if baseball players are the first athletes to “jump the line.”

27 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

With the limited supply of vaccine available, there is no way that athletes should be anywhere near the front of the line. 
 

Once the supply is adequate, athletes, entertainers and celebrities should be amongst the first to receive the vaccine and become part of one of largest PSA Campaigns to promote the general public receiving the vaccine 
 

 

I more or less agree with this, which is why I think MLB players will be the first to do so (not counting the LeBrons of the world). 

[#freejame]

37 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Absolutely on the reasons.  Further explanations from me will belong in the politics board.

Your point of view makes sense to me too; indeed, stating what I did rubs *me* the wrong way.  I figure this is just more emotionally charged for me.

I was trying my best to keep it public board best I could. I understand and respect where you are coming from, I’m just not certain, right or wrong, that those communities would embrace. 

[#freejame]

16 minutes ago, Curt said:

 

 

My view on this:

 

I cut this for space, but at the end of the day we are the United States of America. We need to help our own, but the America I believe in was a leader of the free world. We have an absolute responsibility to continue to vaccinate our own as quickly and responsibly as possible so we can spread the vaccine as far and wide as possible. 
 

I think we are on the same page, albeit possibly for different reasons. 

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, #freejame said:

I was trying my best to keep it public board best I could. I understand and respect where you are coming from, I’m just not certain, right or wrong, that those communities would embrace. 

Neither am I.  The idea came from some people I know in the Network of Religious Communities, National Comference for Community and Justice, and other groups.  I defer to them.  But they are not completely sure either.  So your skepticism is warranted.

[Eleven]

30 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I know I’m boiling it down, as well.

Anything but entertain,...

So, it’s way more important for people to be able to make cheap crap that will be in a landfill in 2 years, or style someone’s hair. Just be a good stay at home robot. Those people matter more,... k

I respect you way too much to react to this post.  Let's revisit what I wrote tomorrow or Friday or whenever.  This wasn't my point.  

I also want to reiterate (this isn't directed to you, Swamp), that this is a global crisis that requires a global solution.  Inoculating Americans "first" isn't going to do a thing because borders will eventually reopen, and, again, we aren't any more important than anyone else.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Eleven

[Curt]

2 minutes ago, #freejame said:

I cut this for space, but at the end of the day we are the United States of America. We need to help our own, but the America I believe in was a leader of the free world. We have an absolute responsibility to continue to vaccinate our own as quickly and responsibly as possible so we can spread the vaccine as far and wide as possible. 
 

I think we are on the same page, albeit possibly for different reasons. 

Yeah, and get that too.  There is also a certain value to the national ideal of being that leader of the world, because someone is going to be, so you’d rather it be the US than Russia/China/etc.  Also, there are times when something is just the right thing to do.  Everyone is going to have a slightly different view on that though.

I just think that, totally separate from any moral or emotional reasons, it probably makes the US a safer place to prioritize vaccinating healthcare workers in Nigeria and Brazil before healthy 20-45 year olds who can work from home in the US.

[#freejame]

5 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I respect you way too much to react to this post.  Let's revisit what I wrote tomorrow or Friday or whenever.  This wasn't my point.  

I also want to reiterate (this isn't directed to you, Swamp), that this is a global crisis that requires a global solution.  Inoculating Americans isn't going to do a thing because borders will eventually reopen, and, again, we aren't any more important than anyone else.

While I agree on a whole, one of the greatest issues facing us today is the degradation of our relationships with our immediate neighbors. I do not believe neighborhoods being fully vaccinated will cure this, but it has the ability to help. We (USA) have been in trying times for longer than most care to admit, and it is repairing these relationships that will allow us to grow strong to where we can be the country leading the world in vaccinations on a global scale. This is the type of American exceptionalism we should all be able to rally behind, but without Americans being taken care of I worry that will not be the case. 

[#freejame]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, and get that too.  There is also a certain value to the national ideal of being that leader of the world, because someone is going to be, so you’d rather it be the US than Russia/China/etc.  Also, there are times when something is just the right thing to do.  Everyone is going to have a slightly different view on that though.

I just think that, totally separate from any moral or emotional reasons, it probably makes the US a safer place to prioritize vaccinating healthcare workers in Nigeria and Brazil before healthy 20-45 year olds who can work from home in the US.

I am hoping my reply to Eleven merges with this because it is more or less the same. Regardless, I am very appreciative of the overall tone of this topic so far and for that I thank everyone involved. 

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I respect you way too much to react to this post.  Let's revisit what I wrote tomorrow or Friday or whenever.  This wasn't my point.  

I also want to reiterate (this isn't directed to you, Swamp), that this is a global crisis that requires a global solution.  Inoculating Americans isn't going to do a thing because borders will eventually reopen, and, again, we aren't any more important than anyone else.

I won't get offended by anything you have to say. We're just talking here and I'm doing my share of devil's advocacy.

As someone who doesn't vote his pocketbook or tax bracket, my views on who should get the vaccine are similar.

At risk people first, period. But that can mean different things to different people. Lifestyle matters. Just because someone is older or has health issues, doesn't mean they are more at risk and should get it first. I know people who haven't left their house in months. They can wait even if they might be on a list that puts them ahead of others.

Quality of life matters and has been a topic since this has begun.

This whole thing just points out to me once more those good ole American values that if you are a good consumer and producer of things, you are of more worth.

[Curt]

10 minutes ago, #freejame said:

While I agree on a whole, one of the greatest issues facing us today is the degradation of our relationships with our immediate neighbors. I do not believe neighborhoods being fully vaccinated will cure this, but it has the ability to help. We (USA) have been in trying times for longer than most care to admit, and it is repairing these relationships that will allow us to grow strong to where we can be the country leading the world in vaccinations on a global scale. This is the type of American exceptionalism we should all be able to rally behind, but without Americans being taken care of I worry that will not be the case. 

Interesting perspective.  There certainly is truth to this.  At least for some people.  I think if enough of the US population is vaccinated and those who aren’t are a good cross section of the most healthy/least at risk, then social life will be able to get back to essentially normal, and we can work towards rebuilding those relationships you are talking about.  I do think we need to get back our basic social structures, but I don’t think 100% need to be vaccinated to do that.

And to be clear my numbers are just estimates.  I am in no way qualified to determine who and how many should/shouldn’t be vaccinated.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I love how people just say no without looking at anything but raw emotion.  

https://ourworldindata.org/us-states-vaccinations

We are now vaccinating over 1.3 million people per day and that number is expanding.  

Some please explain how giving 2500 doses to athletes to protect an important piece of our society harms anyone?  From the stats I've seen and linked here NY alone has wasted as many as 600,000 doses.  Everyone seems more worried about optics then the actual cost benefit to our society.  

The best way to help outside this country is to license the vaccines to manufacturers around the world (this is already being done).  They are also developing and producing their own in Europe, China, Russia and Israel among others.  My research shows as many as 23 vaccines being developed and some already in production around the world. It's arrogant to believe that we are the only ones that can solve this.  Our job is also to protect home first.

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[#freejame]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

Interesting perspective.  There certainly is truth to this.  At least for some people.  I think if enough of the US population is vaccinated and those who aren’t are a good cross section of the most healthy/least at risk, then social life will be able to get back to essentially normal, and we can work towards rebuilding those relationships you are talking about.  I do think we need to get back our basic social structures, but I don’t think 100% need to be vaccinated to do that.

And to be clear my numbers are just estimates.  I am in no way qualified to determine who and how many should/shouldn’t be vaccinated.

I fully agree with you, and I believe that there will be a large contingency of the population that will forgo a vaccine regardless and that same contingency will not care whether they are vaccinated. However, I am concerned those folks would  be the loudest against vaccinating those outside of the United States before everyone else is vaccinated. There is almost certainly no option that will have full support unfortunately. 

[#freejame]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I love how people just say no without looking at anything but raw emotion.  

https://ourworldindata.org/us-states-vaccinations

We are now vaccinating over 1.3 million people per day and that number is expanding.  

Some please explain how giving 2500 doses to athletes to protect an important piece of our society harms anyone?  From the stats I've seen and linked here NY alone has wasted as many as 600,000 doses.  Everyone seems more worried about optics then the actual cost benefit to our society.  

Wasted doses have more to do with the nature of the vaccines than anything else, however, there are definitely terrible policy in place that prevents those doses from finding a suitor and that falls solely on state governments implementing these policies. If it’s two hours until closing and you have one hundred vaccines remaining with only twenty scheduled recipients they need to just open their doors to the first 80 people off the street, priority be damned. This is not the case in any state that I know of. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Also the truth is that this vaccine long-term is meaningless.  In speaking with my doctor today about COVID vaccines he thinks that we'll be getting an annual COVID shot just like the flu shot.  He also believes that these two shots will eventually be combined into one annual inoculation. 

[#freejame]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Also the truth is that this vaccine long-term is meaningless.  In speaking with my doctor today about COVID vaccines he thinks that we'll be getting an annual COVID shot just like the flu shot.  He also believes that these two shots will eventually be combined into one annual inoculation. 

People will need to return to their lives at some point or become hermits because we are far from an insular country. However, I believe only 40% of the country gets a flu shot annually. If you can convince 80% of the population to get a Covid vaccine this year, maybe it takes five years to get down to 40% for annual Covid vaccines. Regardless, this conversation will quickly head towards overall management strategy and what folks have given up over the last year and how much it was worth it.