Blue and Gold Scrimmage 1/9/21 7pm Streaming

[triumph_communes]

23 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I just don’t see Tage on the first line but then again I’m not the coach so we’ll see.  I just think Jack and Hall play a more complex, creative, fast style than Tage can keep up with.  He had two good scrimmages though.  I wouldn’t mind seeing the top two be:

Hall Eichel Olofsson

Skinner Staal Reinhart

 

If we had time, I’d like to see:

Hall-Staal-Reinhart (they’d be better)

Skinner-Eichel-Thompson (Teams will have to choose whether to match up the above line or Eichel)

Oloffson-Mittelstadt-Okposo

Rieder-Eakin-Lazar

but I don’t think this is tried for personnel reasons (I think Jack/Taylor are tied together for better or worse. And being #2 would drive Eichel out of town.)

Edited January 10, 2021 by triumph_communes

[SABRES 0311]

3 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

If we had time, I’d like to see:

Hall-Staal-Reinhart (they’d be better)

Skinner-Eichel-Thompson (Teams will have to choose whether to match up the above line or Eichel)

Oloffson-Mittelstadt-Okposo

Rieder-Eakin-Lazar

but I don’t think this is tried for personnel reasons (I think Jack/Taylor are tied together for better or worse. And being #2 would drive Eichel out of town.)

I think lack of a full camp before a busy season results in some experimental lines during games.  However the lines turn out I’m excited about the options.

[Weave]

7 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

I like Thompson on the top line. I think he creates chaos with his long reach for Hall/Eichel to feast on. And he has a killer shot if he’s ever fed.  Better option than Oloffson

Staal/Reinhart looked much much better with Oloffson on their wing, even if Oloffson was mostly forgettable. That duo has chemistry

I thought Mittelstadt looked much improved and if he keeps it up, playing LW with Staal/Reinhart would be interesting if they’ll take him off center.  I’m less concerned about replacing Staal in a year now

Skinner looks liability level bad. I won’t be surprised if he’s benched after the first couple of games. Ugly situation for the GM

Cozens did nothing to show he deserves a tryout. I bet the kid is exhausted, but he was being manhandled out there.  Quinn had a great pass

Ruotsolainen simply isn’t good enough for NHL

I think Eakin/Rieder/Sheehan are going to be better than many are expecting.  Okposo is a lock at 3RW and that will be fine, I see more offense out of him than last year with Larry/Girgs. Lazar makes the team over Ruotsolainen. 
 

Hutton did nothing to show any confidence in him is going to be restored. Trading for a backup is going to be necessary for this team to take a step forward, I hope the GM doesn’t sit trying to make the best deal too long. Girgensons on IR I think gives him the cap space to make this move now. 

I agree with most of this. 

Tage showed up looking to win a spot on the roster, and did, maybe even a spot on the top line. 

Mitts showed improvement.  He obviously put in the work this offseason.  I'm not sure it's enough, but he's improved his positional play a fair amount.

Cozens looked overmatched.  That surprised me given that he's been playing at a high level for weeks now.  Skinner looked like he had something else he wanted to do last night.  Roots didn't impress.  Neither did Asplund.  I don't think Asplund is going to be an NHL'er.

Okposo still has gas in the tank.  Staal and Reinhart look like they could be lethal.

Reider has a nice shot.

The defence will be fine.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Weave

[Curt]

I know these games are the first Sabres hockey that we have seen in 10 months, so they feel like they must be super important and mean a lot, but I would caution against giving too much weight to a training camp intrasquad scrimmage.

[tom webster]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

I know these games are the first Sabres hockey that we have seen in 10 months, so they feel like they must be super important and mean a lot, but I would caution against giving too much weight to a training camp intrasquad scrimmage.

This. 

[bob_sauve28]

10 minutes ago, Curt said:

I know these games are the first Sabres hockey that we have seen in 10 months, so they feel like they must be super important and mean a lot, but I would caution against giving too much weight to a training camp intrasquad scrimmage.

Not much hitting going on out there. Not exactly playoff hockey 

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

I like Thompson on the top line. I think he creates chaos with his long reach for Hall/Eichel to feast on. And he has a killer shot if he’s ever fed.  Better option than Oloffson

Staal/Reinhart looked much much better with Oloffson on their wing, even if Oloffson was mostly forgettable. That duo has chemistry

I thought Mittelstadt looked much improved and if he keeps it up, playing LW with Staal/Reinhart would be interesting if they’ll take him off center.  I’m less concerned about replacing Staal in a year now

Skinner looks liability level bad. I won’t be surprised if he’s benched after the first couple of games. Ugly situation for the GM

Cozens did nothing to show he deserves a tryout. I bet the kid is exhausted, but he was being manhandled out there.  Quinn had a great pass

Ruotsolainen simply isn’t good enough for NHL

I think Eakin/Rieder/Sheehan are going to be better than many are expecting.  Okposo is a lock at 3RW and that will be fine, I see more offense out of him than last year with Larry/Girgs. Lazar makes the team over Ruotsolainen. 
 

Hutton did nothing to show any confidence in him is going to be restored. Trading for a backup is going to be necessary for this team to take a step forward, I hope the GM doesn’t sit trying to make the best deal too long. Girgensons on IR I think gives him the cap space to make this move now. 

 

1 hour ago, Weave said:

I agree with most of this. 

Tage showed up looking to win a spot on the roster, and did, maybe even a spot on the top line. 

Mitts showed improvement.  He obviously put in the work this offseason.  I'm not sure it's enough, but he's improved his positional play a fair amount.

Cozens looked overmatched.  That surprised me given that he's been playing at a high level for weeks now.  Skinner looked like he had something else he wanted to do last night.  Roots didn't impress.  Neither did Asplund.  I don't think Asplund is going to be an NHL'er.

Okposo still has gas in the tank.  Staal and Reinhart look like they could be lethal.

Reider has a nice shot.

The defence will be fine.

 

Agree w/ the bolded.

If Skinner is going to start on the 3rd line, would expect Thompson on the top line w/ Olofsson on the 2nd line would be more effective than the other way around, but still expect Victor on the too line & Skinner on the 2nd works better.

Mittelstadt's play was interesting.  We've read for months that Casey was lazy & not taking to being a pro; small sample size, but it seems those reports were inaccurate.  😉 Don't know that he makes the opening night roster, but do expect him to get a reasonable amount of ice time this year.  Could see him as the 4C, 4LW, or 3LW dependent upon what Krueger is trying to accomplish.

And, yep, Thompson will be in the opening night lineup.  Which leaves the question of which 3 guys fill out the bottom 6:  Lazar & Rieder have the inside track to 2 of the spots with Mittelstadt, Sheahan, & Cozens looking for the last one.

Expect Miller will be in the opening night lineup; he's been playing well with Jokiharju.

Really hoping Arizona gets dumb & tries to put the kid on the taxi squad; Hutton will cost them games.

[Weave]

35 minutes ago, Curt said:

I know these games are the first Sabres hockey that we have seen in 10 months, so they feel like they must be super important and mean a lot, but I would caution against giving too much weight to a training camp intrasquad scrimmage.

It may not mean much in terms of how the team plays this season.  It means something in terms of beating out others for an opening night spot.  Limited opportunities to show the team in game situations where you stack up relative to others.  Limited opportunities to show under fire that you understand the system and how you fit in it.

[Curt]

26 minutes ago, Weave said:

It may not mean much in terms of how the team plays this season.  It means something in terms of beating out others for an opening night spot.  Limited opportunities to show the team in game situations where you stack up relative to others.  Limited opportunities to show under fire that you understand the system and how you fit in it.

I’m not saying that it means nothing at all, but it’s a training camp intrasquad game.  It’s one game, a large portion of the players are not going 100% and half the guys on the ice are non-NHLers.  It’s just not that representative of how these guys will be in an actual NHL game.

So I think that anyone who is making meaningful changes to how they view players, based upon watching this, is doing it wrong.

[Weave]

9 minutes ago, Curt said:

I’m not saying that it means nothing at all, but it’s a training camp intrasquad game.  It’s one game, a large portion of the players are not going 100% and half the guys on the ice are non-NHLers.  It’s just not that representative of how these guys will be in an actual NHL game.

So I think that anyone who is making meaningful changes to how they view players, based upon watching this, is doing it wrong.

I don’t know about that last part.  Was it not apparent to you that Mittlestadt’s play was better than last season?  Even his last preseason?  Was it not apparent that Cozens looked a bit out of place?

Is it not appropriate to alter your pre-preseason thoughts accordingly in at least these cases?  

 

No, that game was not the final arbiter for these or any other player, but if the game is meaningless for judgement purposes why is Kreuger scheduling them and why would he impress upon the players to take that game more seriously?

[jsb]

To me the scrimmages are to help get in shape, build chemistry, reinforce what you were taught in practice and lastly to win a job in the lineup. Having said that, my takes are that we will not miss Larsson as some of you seem to think with Eakin in the lineup. Okposo will be his primary winger because he's dependable, experienced, brings some physicality to the line and can bring some offense to it. Rieder is a completely different player than Girgs but that line is faster, quicker and appears to have the ability to actually score with him in it.

Tage T. made the team. Where he ends up is anyone's guess but he will play somewhere. Skinner is the anomaly, where does he end up?? He thrives in chaos so who he ends up has to help cause it. Lazar, Eakin, Rieder and Sheahan are our primary PKrs. Jack and Hall will be on another level, smart, skilled and their kind of speed kills. Mitts looks faster, quicker, positionally better but still needs work on his defense and especially intensity on the boards. He's coming along though. Asplund looks faster to me but I don't see a place in the lineup for him yet. The Stall-Samson line should be fun to watch. 

I think Cozens will be given a chance but off first impressions, he needs to start in a Taxi squad and get some AHL time to acclimate to pro hockey. I was having my doubts about the Quinn pick following the IIHF tournament but with some grooming, I think he'll end up being a good pick, someone who has an all around and complete game and doesn't need to be a star. 

Team looks bigger, faster than any of our recent teams but both Ullmark and Hutton still leaves me feeling that there's still a bigger than necessary hole in the lineup. Hopefully they'll step up or we have to make a move.

 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

 

Which leaves the question of which 3 guys fill out the bottom 6:  Lazar & Rieder have the inside track to 2 of the spots with Mittelstadt, Sheahan, & Cozens looking for the last one.

They signed Rieder with the intent of having him in the everyday lineup as a PK specialist.

Since than Zemgus went down, Rieder has shown the "play fast" element RK wants, and he has scored 3 goals in the team's only tuneups.

He's not on an inside track. He's on the team.

[erickompositör72]

20 minutes ago, jsb said:

To me the scrimmages are to help get in shape, build chemistry, reinforce what you were taught in practice and lastly to win a job in the lineup. Having said that, my takes are that we will not miss Larsson as some of you seem to think with Eakin in the lineup. Okposo will be his primary winger because he's dependable, experienced, brings some physicality to the line and can bring some offense to it. Rieder is a completely different player than Girgs but that line is faster, quicker and appears to have the ability to actually score with him in it.

Tage T. made the team. Where he ends up is anyone's guess but he will play somewhere. Skinner is the anomaly, where does he end up?? He thrives in chaos so who he ends up has to help cause it. Lazar, Eakin, Rieder and Sheahan are our primary PKrs. Jack and Hall will be on another level, smart, skilled and their kind of speed kills. Mitts looks faster, quicker, positionally better but still needs work on his defense and especially intensity on the boards. He's coming along though. Asplund looks faster to me but I don't see a place in the lineup for him yet. The Stall-Samson line should be fun to watch. 

I think Cozens will be given a chance but off first impressions, he needs to start in a Taxi squad and get some AHL time to acclimate to pro hockey. I was having my doubts about the Quinn pick following the IIHF tournament but with some grooming, I think he'll end up being a good pick, someone who has an all around and complete game and doesn't need to be a star. 

Team looks bigger, faster than any of our recent teams but both Ullmark and Hutton still leaves me feeling that there's still a bigger than necessary hole in the lineup. Hopefully they'll step up or we have to make a move.

 

This x1000

 

And that is not to say anyone overrated Larsson on this forum. He was fantastic at what he did. What some people seem to miss is that you can change the style of that line to fit the players on it, and have it be just as effective as the GLO line, but in a different way.

 

Another take on Mittelstadt. How would everyone feel if he kept developing his sense of "defensive responsibility," and became a reliable two-way 3C, who could be depended on to not give up chances to the other team? And who had occasional flashes of putting the puck in the net? I can see he growing into this role very well.

[Curt]

28 minutes ago, Weave said:

I don’t know about that last part.  Was it not apparent to you that Mittlestadt’s play was better than last season?  Even his last preseason?  Was it not apparent that Cozens looked a bit out of place?

Is it not appropriate to alter your pre-preseason thoughts accordingly in at least these cases?  

 

No, that game was not the final arbiter for these or any other player, but if the game is meaningless for judgement purposes why is Kreuger scheduling them and why would he impress upon the players to take that game more seriously?

Honestly, no.  Not really.  I don’t think so.

If the goal is to predict what the opening night lineup will be, I think just looking at the practice lines every day is a much better indicator of where these guys stand with the coaches.

The game was important in the sense that the players need to play.  Shake off any rust, get used to game speed.  There is no preseason.  They need this for practice.

Also, didn’t say that the game was meaningless.  It’s more that the game is one day out of an entire training camp, and the things that we saw from a player from our view may not have even been the same things that the coaching staff was looking for from that player.

[triumph_communes]

I want to see

Skinner-Mittelstadt-Lazar

Rieder-Eakin-Okposo

 

 

idc if it’s just a scrimmage, Mittelstadt and Okposo are skating faster than they had in two years. Cozens couldn’t keep up. Skinner was slacking off and has already been demoted to the bottom 6 three days before the season starts, and the only player he would replace is Oloffson who wasn’t slacking off

Edited January 10, 2021 by triumph_communes

[inkman]

Cozens was excelling against a bunch of teens who spank their monkeys 5 times a day and are thinking about which skin their Fortnite character is going to sport after the games.  He’s playing against men now.  

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, inkman said:

Cozens was excelling against a bunch of teens who spank their monkeys 5 times a day and are thinking about which skin their Fortnite character is going to sport after the games.  He’s playing against men now.  

Cozens can be a boy but that doesn't mean that he can't play like a man. If he can keep up and earn his way to playing time and role then why be so concerned about his age? No doubt he is going to get better but you got to start somewhere. He's a young player that not only am I not worried about so much as I am excited about. 

[Taro T]

35 minutes ago, inkman said:

Cozens was excelling against a bunch of teens who spank their monkeys 5 times a day and are thinking about which skin their Fortnite character is going to sport after the games.  He’s playing against men now.  

Cozens should've looked like Quinn did in the scrimmage.  It's not that he's going against men now, IMHO, but rather that he's still gassed from the tournament.  With Dach out, he was Canada's go-to guy the whole way.  That has to have been as mentally taxing as physically draining.

He'll get his tryout here and really expect him to earn staying w/ the Sabres all year at least in a 4th line/ taxi squad role.

[Shootica]

28 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Cozens should've looked like Quinn did in the scrimmage.  It's not that he's going against men now, IMHO, but rather that he's still gassed from the tournament.  With Dach out, he was Canada's go-to guy the whole way.  That has to have been as mentally taxing as physically draining.

He'll get his tryout here and really expect him to earn staying w/ the Sabres all year at least in a 4th line/ taxi squad role.

He looked burnt out in the gold medal game as well.  A full (or even partial) NHL schedule is going to be a learning curve for him.  I'm leaning more and more to the idea that he'll be rotated in and out of the lineup to start the year, and probably only get 50% of games or so.

[Thorny]

14 hours ago, Taro T said:

The only things to safely take away are: the goalies are we who we thought they'd be; Eichel & Hall will be special; Staal isn't spent yet; and the D pairings might work.  Anything else is narrative IMHO.

Lack of action perplexing on this front. 

5 hours ago, Curt said:

I know these games are the first Sabres hockey that we have seen in 10 months, so they feel like they must be super important and mean a lot, but I would caution against giving too much weight to a training camp intrasquad scrimmage.

Absolutely, said the same thing. 

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

They signed Rieder with the intent of having him in the everyday lineup as a PK specialist.

Since than Zemgus went down, Rieder has shown the "play fast" element RK wants, and he has scored 3 goals in the team's only tuneups.

He's not on an inside track. He's on the team.

Exactly. He was always on the team, he never had to fight for a spot. Ruotsalainen couldn't have beaten him out, for example. 

1 hour ago, inkman said:

Cozens was excelling against a bunch of teens who spank their monkeys 5 times a day and are thinking about which skin their Fortnite character is going to sport after the games.  He’s playing against men now.  

At the age prospects of his quality often start playing in the NHL. Maybe he's not ready but we can't tell anything from a scrimmage. Quinn looked good, and we already know Cozens is more ready than Quinn. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Exactly. He was always on the team, he never had to fight for a spot. Ruotsalainen couldn't have beaten him out, for example. 

At the age prospects of his quality often start playing in the NHL. Maybe he's not ready but we can't tell anything from a scrimmage. Quinn looked good, and we already know Cozens is more ready than Quinn. 

Had Rieder stunk in camp, he’d be on the taxi squad.  He needed to prove he was still an NHL player and had a good camp.  A vet minimum contract is barely better then a PTO.  These guys are easily waived with no cap consequences.  

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Had Rieder stunk in camp, he’d be on the taxi squad.  He needed to prove he was still an NHL player and had a good camp.  A vet minimum contract is barely better then a PTO.  These guys are easily waived with no cap consequences.  

It would be hard for a guy like Rieder to stink in camp when he's not a timing player. All he has to do is show up and work and Krueger is going to see what he wants to, to confirm what he already wants to happen. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Thorny said:

It would be hard for a guy like Rieder to stink in camp when he's not a timing player. All he has to do is show up and work and Krueger is going to see what he wants to, to confirm what he already wants to happen. 

Which is not a positive for RK.  

[Thorny]

He sees a player like Ruotsalainen show flash in the o-zone yet show inexperience leading to positional errors in the d-zone, and says: head to rochester and come back when you've mitigated your faults, instead of, i'm a good enough coach, with the strength of our dominant top 6, to find a matchup for this guy on the big team where his only impacts are considerably positive ones, because I'm masking his weaknesses with my gameplan. He'll learn the positioning through experience in the meantime. 

I'm not saying one is the right way but there's more than one way to handle these types of players. It's always more about what you are asking of a player, how much of a burden you are asking them to shoulder. This is why the perception of Mittelstadt is of spectacular fail because relative the role that was being asked of him he failed miserably.