Buffalo Sabres Training Camp (2020/21)

[inkman]

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

If cozens can bump Reider out of the lineup, it’ll look a lot better, especially if they put him on a scoring line.  

[LGR4GM]

Cozens will be ready to go once he hit camps. He's been playing competitive games now for 2 weeks and has a few more to go. I am excited for his arrival to see where he gets slotted and what he looks like. 

[LGR4GM]

 

[triumph_communes]

Will they play Mittelstadt over Lazar/Reider on a 4th line?  If he doesn’t play NHL where would he play

[dudacek]

6 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Condensed season along with an evolving game means you need more than just two lines who can score.  Add in however many COVID cases and injuries, definitely need the bottom six to contribute.  I won’t be surprised if we have a few games won/lost on the backs of guys like Lazar, KO and the like.  

One of the more interesting things to watch will be the play of Eakin.

Most fans on the internet: “Larsson was a defensive force and the catalyst for the LOG line, which was our second best line last year. Eakin might be a bit better offensively, but he kinda sucks. That line isn’t going to be able to handle the tough minutes and is worse than it was last year.”

Ralph and Kevyn: “Larsson was dependable defensively but had hands of stone and was an absolute anchor in the other two zones. Eakin is also good defensively, but he is also way faster, a better penalty killer and has at least some offence. That line goes from shutdown-only to a legit 2-way 3rd line and will be better than it was last year.”

Huge test of the player evaluation skills of our new hockey department.

[bob_sauve28]

5 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Will they play Mittelstadt over Lazar/Reider on a 4th line?  If he doesn’t play NHL where would he play

Taking Lazar out would be a big mistake, IMO. He’s a good player and would fill the fourth line role WAY better than Casey would. In addition, his face offs in overtime are worth points in the standings and we will be fighting for every point we can get to make the playoffs. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Isn't Mitts contract 1 way?

No.

[dudacek]

36 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Will they play Mittelstadt over Lazar/Reider on a 4th line?  If he doesn’t play NHL where would he play

Sometimes.

It’s really looking like those three, plus Cozens, R2 and maybe Sheahan will operate as a new kind of bottom six, rotating through the 4th line and spotting into the top nine as injuries, play, matchups and the condensed schedule dictates.

At least to start.

Edited January 2, 2021 by dudacek

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Will they play Mittelstadt over Lazar/Reider on a 4th line?  If he doesn’t play NHL where would he play

Am expecting Mittelstadt to be taxi squaded to start. 

But if he shines in camp could see him beating out somebody on the 4th line.  Am expecting that 4th line to be pretty fluid based upon who the opponent is & who is going well.  Am almost expecting that to be as interchangeable as Housley made it his last year.

And expect the 4th line to be treated like a utility tool box- getting the odd shift at ES but comprising guys that specialize in a particular aspect rather than being a true energy line.  On any given night it might be a Kids Line, a 2nd checking line, a 3rd scoring line, a banging line, or the hodge-podge.  (With the 1st & 3rd option being pretty much identical & the 2nd & 4th being more or less identical as well.) 

Am hoping a Kids Line ends up being able to hold it's own reasonably well in its own end given sheltered minutes because a Thompson - Mittelstadt/Ruutsalainen - Cozens line could be a RAV sort of 3rd line that could actually contribute to the offense.

[tom webster]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Sometimes.

It’s really looking like those three, plus Cozens, R2 and maybe Sheahan will operate as a new kind of bottom six, rotating through the 4th line and spotting into the top six as injuries, play, matchups and the condensed schedule dictates.

At least to start.

I think something you might see is a 13-5 line up with Reider as a PK specialist.

[SABRES 0311]

Olofsson to the dressing room after a hard fall.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, tom webster said:

I think something you might see is a 13-5 line up with Reider as a PK specialist.

If Ristolainen, Dahlin, & Montour end up all getting Ristolainen style minutes that might be possible with McCabe-Jokiharju getting the last minutes.

But in a compressed schedule season, that could leave the top 3 gassed by the time game 50 rolls around & poor Thorny might have an aneurysm watching Risto play that much.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

One of the more interesting things to watch will be the play of Eakin.

Most fans on the internet: “Larsson was a defensive force and the catalyst for the LOG line, which was our second best line last year. Eakin might be a bit better offensively, but he kinda sucks. That line isn’t going to be able to handle the tough minutes and is worse than it was last year.”

Ralph and Kevyn: “Larsson was dependable defensively but had hands of stone and was an absolute anchor in the other two zones. defensively, bEakin is also good ut he is also way faster, a better penalty killer and has at least some offence. That line goes from shutdown-only to a legit 2-way 3rd line and will be better than it was last year.”

Huge test of the player evaluation skills of our new hockey department.

You are astute in your observations. A couple of the priorities this offseason in reworking the roster is to get faster and to improve the secondary scoring. If you include the skating ability of our defensive unit and with the additions of Hall and Eakins to their respective lines this is more of a north/south and faster lineup. 

As you suggest with your last sentence about player evaluations the organization has conceptualized how it wants to build a roster and then brought in players who fit in with their concept. This is a good example of an organization that is cohesive top to bottom compared to one that is disjointed. You got to like what has been done and be optimistic. 

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are astute in your observations. A couple of the priorities this offseason in reworking the roster is to get faster and to improve the secondary scoring. If you include the skating ability of our defensive unit and with the additions of Hall and Eakins to their respective lines this is more of a north/south and faster lineup. 

As you suggest with your last sentence about player evaluations the organization has conceptualized how it wants to build a roster and then brought in players who fit in with their concept. This is a good example of an organization that is cohesive top to bottom compared to one that is disjointed. You got to like what has been done and be optimistic. 

Even if this team misses the playoffs, and my expectation is there's slightly better odds of them making them than not, they really are getting to a good place.  (Having both Hall & Reinhart go away would put a big dent in that but they can keep them both LT or at minimum keep Hall & convert Reinhart into other assets.)  They have 4 or 5 pieces of the top 6 that will be here for the long haul (yes, both Hall & Reinhart could be gone 1 year from now and 2 respectively, but again really expect at least 1 if not both are extended beyond Sam's RFA term) and at least 5 pieces in the pipeline to backfill those openings and unlike with the prior regime they have a GM that can find top 6 pieces from other sources that don't break the bank nor deplete the prospect pool should all 5 prospects bust.

They have Dahlin on the back end that will cover a lot of warts.  The rest of the top 6 are at least top 5's with most being 3 or 4's and between prospects or trades they should be able to backfill losing guys like Miller should they depart.

Have a goalie tandem that doesn't cost games and this team should be a perennial playoff team.  Get top 10 GT and they can be contenders.

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Don't see how. He should be adding muscle, not getting lighter. 

Anyway, I wouldn't put too much stock in who is lined up with who right now. Ralph is a mixed line chemistry kind of guy and he's going to mix and match with the new guys until he sees who clicks with who. Based on last year and the things he said he is also a work hard and play more (and vice versa) guy so the entire line up will be fluid unless the first game group keeps winning. 

We might finally have enough talent where hard work can be rewarded and slackers can be sent to the press box. For years we've never had that. There was never any way to sit a guy without hurting the team. I also have no issues with not rushing Cozens. By the end of the year I think he will have worked into the main group but easing him in slowly is not a problem. 

With the correct training he can lose a few pounds and still get much stronger and even faster/quicker.   Casey has a “pudgy” body type, he will lose pounds first before he reverses and starts adding pounds from muscle growth.  He can still get stronger while losing weight.  He might be a lot better as a strong 190 pound player than he was last year as a relatively weak 200 pound player.  

I see him listed at 6’1” and 199 LBs.  If that is his true weight, and suspect he was actually low 200’s,  he can definitely drop pounds and still increase strength, stamina and quickness.   

Don’t let the baby face fool you, his body type is that of a stout guy.  Physically, he has been pretty much of a soft dough boy for his NHL career.  It’s time for him to get in his best shape and take his career seriously.  

Since Covid hit I have lost 35 pounds and increased my strength and stamina by large amounts. Using old power 90 type workouts, in my basement, with only dumbbells and basic calisthenics.    I am 62 and I kept a log.   I went from doing 4 sets of 10 push ups (and killing myself) to my current four sets of 35 push ups (and I try to max out the last set and go beyond 35). 
 

 I expect a 21 year old professional hockey player to be in great physical shape.  This kid has the body type that can support more muscle at a slightly lower weight if he chooses to do the work.   

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

With the correct training he can lose a few pounds and still get much stronger and even faster/quicker.   Casey has a “pudgy” body type, he will lose pounds first before he reverses and starts adding pounds from muscle growth.  He can still get stronger while losing weight.  He might be a lot better as a strong 194 pound player than he was last year as a relatively weak 200 pound player.  

I see him listed at 6’1” and 199 LBs.  If that is his true weight, and suspect he was actually low 200’s,  he can definitely drop pounds and still increase strength, stamina and quickness.   

Don’t let the baby face fool you, his body type is that of a stout guy.  Physically, he has been pretty much of a soft dough boy for his NHL career.  It’s time for him to get in his best shape and take his career seriously.  

Since Covid hit I have lost 35 pounds and increased my strength and stamina by large amounts. Using old power 90 type workouts, in my basement, with only dumbbells and basic calisthenics.    I am 62 and I kept a log.   I went from doing 4 sets of 10 push ups (and killing myself) to my current four sets of 35 push ups (and I try to max out the last set and go beyond 35). 
 

 I expect a 21 year old professional hockey player to be in great physical shape.  This kid has the body type that can support more muscle at a slightly lower weight if he chooses to do the work.   

 

[dudacek]

Krueger on Casey Mittelstadt:

“He was our best finishing forward in Rochester in March... He’s embracing the challenge of being a depth player that can play on any line... he’s increased his speed and he’s increased his fitness.” #Sabres @WKBW
 

PHam saying Casey stayed out after practice finished and was the last guy off the ice.

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

If Ristolainen, Dahlin, & Montour end up all getting Ristolainen style minutes that might be possible with McCabe-Jokiharju getting the last minutes.

But in a compressed schedule season, that could leave the top 3 gassed by the time game 50 rolls around & poor Thorny might have an aneurysm watching Risto play that much.

As I’ve said before, if Casey develops into a legit asset, this team becomes very deep and a lot better then people are expecting.

[inkman]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Krueger on Casey Mittelstadt:

“He was our best finishing forward in Rochester in March... He’s embracing the challenge of being a depth player that can play on any line... he’s increased his speed and he’s increased his fitness.” #Sabres @WKBW
 

PHam saying Casey stayed out after practice finished and was the last guy off the ice.

Quite Frankly, I believe it when I see it.  It sounds like a lot of coach speak. I saw Casey play last season.   “Best finishing forward” really leaves a lot of room to still not play good hockey.  This dude buried himself in ineptitude, he’ll need to do a lot of digging to get out.  Because it’s the NHL, a 1000% improvement in his game would still only result in a .25 point per game increase.   We have a half dozen of the best players in the game and who the hell can tell.   I can understand why people either love or hate hockey.  It’s too nuanced for the stars to really shine.  

[matter2003]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Don't see how. He should be adding muscle, not getting lighter. 

Anyway, I wouldn't put too much stock in who is lined up with who right now. Ralph is a mixed line chemistry kind of guy and he's going to mix and match with the new guys until he sees who clicks with who. Based on last year and the things he said he is also a work hard and play more (and vice versa) guy so the entire line up will be fluid unless the first game group keeps winning. 

We might finally have enough talent where hard work can be rewarded and slackers can be sent to the press box. For years we've never had that. There was never any way to sit a guy without hurting the team. I also have no issues with not rushing Cozens. By the end of the year I think he will have worked into the main group but easing him in slowly is not a problem. 

Those two things are not binary.

Mittlestadt was simply skinny fat last year. He needed to lose quite a bit of fat and if he is training properly he can gain muscle while doing it.

If he lost 15 lbs of fat and gained 10 lbs of muscle, the net loss is still 5 lbs but his body composition changed a LOT.

So what you really mean to say(I think), or at least SHOULD be saying, is that he needs a drastic body recomposition makeover. Meaning he needs to replace a lot of the fat with muscle.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Speed kills, and he needs to be quicker. He’s never going to be a banger. 

ya, but he's fast enough to play. He's not very strong on the puck imo and lacks compete. Strength would help him more. I don't think losing a few pounds will make him a better skater to the extent that he'd have to be to make up for that. 

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You don't know how much of his previous weight was fat. I went from 205 to 195 5 years ago and it was a stronger 195.

Ya but how old are you? He's a kid and an athlete. Usually not the recipe for a pot belly. Muscle weighs more than fat remember. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

 I expect a 21 year old professional hockey player to be in great physical shape.  This kid has the body type that can support more muscle at a slightly lower weight if he chooses to do the work.   

This would be the crux of my skepticism. I'd buy into the losing weight is good argument if he was a track athlete, a runner, but for a young hockey player who should already be in great shape, he needs to add muscle to compete with men, like Cozens did. Night and day those two in comparison. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by PerreaultForever

[dudacek]

Remember last year during the 40 minutes Jack wasn’t on the ice and the best you were realistically hoping for was not much to happen?

The Skinner/Staal/Reinhart line should make watching the games that much more enjoyable.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Even if this team misses the playoffs, and my expectation is there's slightly better odds of them making them than not, they really are getting to a good place.  (Having both Hall & Reinhart go away would put a big dent in that but they can keep them both LT or at minimum keep Hall & convert Reinhart into other assets.)  They have 4 or 5 pieces of the top 6 that will be here for the long haul (yes, both Hall & Reinhart could be gone 1 year from now and 2 respectively, but again really expect at least 1 if not both are extended beyond Sam's RFA term) and at least 5 pieces in the pipeline to backfill those openings and unlike with the prior regime they have a GM that can find top 6 pieces from other sources that don't break the bank nor deplete the prospect pool should all 5 prospects bust.

They have Dahlin on the back end that will cover a lot of warts.  The rest of the top 6 are at least top 5's with most being 3 or 4's and between prospects or trades they should be able to backfill losing guys like Miller should they depart.

Have a goalie tandem that doesn't cost games and this team should be a perennial playoff team.  Get top 10 GT and they can be contenders.

Terrific post. Well thought out and expressed. As you point out not only are the pieces being assembled but what distinguishes this roster from the prior years is that there is a cushion of depth that we haven't seen for years. This team has a recent history of starting off exceptionally well and then falling like a boulder rolling down a steep mountain because there wasn't enough cushion to sustain a few injuries or substitute for faltering players. What is apparent entering this training camp is that there is internal competition vying for playing time. We haven't had enough talent before to fill the holes when they happened. 

I believe that this team is capable of being a playoff team even within this more challenging Covid manufactured conference. If they don't there still should be a recognition that this organization is being more smartly run and more aggressively run than with the previous administration. 

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Remember last year during the 40 minutes Jack wasn’t on the ice and the best you were realistically hoping for was not much to happen?

The Skinner/Staal/Reinhart line should make watching the games that much more enjoyable.

The Dahlin show should also be aesthetically pleasing. And with him there will be a lot of "wow" moments.