Buffalo Sabres Training Camp (2020/21)

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Right, so it all kinda comes to the same thing. We agree the line designation is irrelevant, he just needs to be with a player or two who'll compliment him. It is certainly in their power to achieve that, correct?

And my expectation is that it will be, though not necessarily to the level some are arguing for.  (Meaning it might be he gets help in the bottom 6 but not having Olofsson nor Thompson bumped out of the top 6.)

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

And my expectation is that it will be, though not necessarily to the level some are arguing for.  (Meaning it might be he gets help in the bottom 6 but not having Olofsson nor Thompson bumped out of the top 6.)

I doubt the firm-top 6 guys will have a hard time coming around if Skinner is producing for a lower line, so we have that. 

If your expectation comes to fruition for Game 1, I'm good. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Anyone know when final cuts happen? Gotta be soon.

[Brawndo]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Anyone know when final cuts happen? Gotta be soon.

Tomorrow by 5pm rosters need to be finalized but waivers are at noon

Edited January 12, 2021 by Brawndo

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Anyone know when final cuts happen? Gotta be soon.

They typically happen the day before RS play begins.  So should be tomorrow afternoon holding suit.

(Brawndo too fast for the rest of us again.  😉 )

[erickompositör72]

It was alluded to before, but I think it's important to point out that Skinner-type players are "streaky" because so many of their chances are based on good/bad bounces. Someone mentioned he did create many chances last year and didn't get the right bounces, etc.

 

Understandably, every coach wishes you could be more like Eichel (or even Reinhart) than Skinner. But Skinner is one of the best in league at what he does, and I really think last year he was mostly just unlucky.

 

Predicting a big bounce-back for Skinner this season (or, at least- what's the term- "regression to the mean"- but in this case, "progression," rather than "regression")

Edited January 12, 2021 by erickompositör72

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

It was alluded to before, but I think it's important to point out that Skinner-type players are "streaky" because so many of their chances are based on good/bad bounces. Someone mentioned he did create many chances last year and didn't get the right bounces, etc.

 

Understandably, every coach wishes you could be more like Eichel (or even Reinhart) than Skinner. But Skinner is one of the best in league at what he does, and I really think last year he was mostly just unlucky.

 

Predicting a big bounce-back for Skinner this season (or, at least- what's the term- "regression to the mean"- but in this case, "progression," rather than "regression")

Regression still applies in a statistical sense. An outlier moving back towards to norm, regards of direction. 

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I doubt the firm-top 6 guys will have a hard time coming around if Skinner is producing for a lower line, so we have that. 

If your expectation comes to fruition for Game 1, I'm good. 

Hoping it's game 1 because they need to get out of the gate fast.  Expecting it by game 3 at the latest.

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This isn't the case of an inmate running the asylum.  What has Skinner said the media or on social media?  The only one who said Skinner wasn't playing the system was RK.  My defense of Skinner is simple.  I've said over and again that Skinner needs to buy in.  RK admits Jeff is working on doing what RK wants, however, as I've said before, great coaches work with what they got and adjust to their talent.  Lindy Ruff for example, but also Barry Trotz with Ovie, Backstrom and Kuznetsov.  RK's system reminds me of Trotz's.   From the quotes I hear Skinner is trying to do what the coach wants, but I also hear a coach unwilling to adjust to make the best out of this excellent 5 on 5 scorer.  Trotz proved in Wash that he can be flexible. 

You keep going back to Trotz in Washington but might I remind you that he inherited a talented team with talented players and they went through 3 years of badly under achieving in the playoffs before finally putting it together for one successful cup run and then, because of that and maybe because of his tenuous relationship with those names his contract was not renewed and he had to go to the island despite winning a Stanley Cup. 

Trotz does much better with lesser talented teams that he can elevate using his system. I agree Ralph has some similar ideas (it's kind of basic defense first hockey) but I think in order for everyone to buy in fully he is going to need some actual success. At the moment I suspect Skinner thinks he knows better and since his contract is locked up he's in control in his mind. 

I guess last year soured me on Skinner and as a fan I expect him to at least try to earn his contract. idk how this will resolve, but it is a potential hurdle that could be disastrous. Let's hope they figure out a way to please both of them.

[Thorny]

34 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

You keep going back to Trotz in Washington but might I remind you that he inherited a talented team with talented players and they went through 3 years of badly under achieving in the playoffs before finally putting it together for one successful cup run and then, because of that and maybe because of his tenuous relationship with those names his contract was not renewed and he had to go to the island despite winning a Stanley Cup. 

Trotz does much better with much less neck and lesser talented teams that he can elevate using his system. I agree Ralph has some similar ideas (it's kind of basic defense first hockey) but I think in order for everyone to buy in fully he is going to need some actual success. At the moment I suspect Skinner thinks he knows better and since his contract is locked up he's in control in his mind. 

I guess last year soured me on Skinner and as a fan I expect him to at least try to earn his contract. idk how this will resolve, but it is a potential hurdle that could be disastrous. Let's hope they figure out a way to please both of them.

Ftfy

[PerreaultForever]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ftfy

very nice. 

so ditto? 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

very nice. 

so ditto? 

You mean like the Pokemon? I'm lost now 

[dudacek]

With all this focus on Skinner/Krueger, I haven’t really heard what you guys think about the macro picture being tested here:

• Do people like Thompson with Eichel and Hall?
• How about Olofsson with Staal and Reinhart?
• Would either Victor or Tage be a better fit with two of Sheahan/Lazar/Cozens on a line Ralph apparently wants to be able to trust both ways?

Personally, I suspect it’s going to be Eichel/Hall Staal/Reinhart Eakin/Okposo and a revolving door and the above debate will lose its heat because two of Thompson VO and Skinner click where they are and we’re winning, or two of them don’t and we shake things up because we’re losing.

Another development that hasn’t really been a talking point that I am quietly pumped about: Dahlin and Montour have been regular thing with Eichel and Hall.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

You mean like the Pokemon? I'm lost now 

perhaps I took the abbreviation incorrectly. Where I live "ftfy"  means f this and f you. 

[PerreaultForever]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

With all this focus on Skinner/Krueger, I haven’t really heard what you guys think about the macro picture being tested here:

• Do people like Thompson with Eichel and Hall?
• How about Olofsson with Staal and Reinhart?
• Would either Victor or Tage be a better fit with two of Sheahan/Lazar/Cozens on a line Ralph apparently wants to be able to trust both ways?

Personally, I suspect it’s going to be Eichel/Hall Staal/Reinhart Eakin/Okposo and a revolving door and the above debate will lose its heat because two of Thompson VO and Skinner click where they are and we’re winning, or two of them don’t and we shake things up because we’re losing.

Another development that hasn’t really been a talking point that I am quietly pumped about: Dahlin and Montour have been regular thing with Eichel and Hall.

1. No. I like Hall Eichel Cozens. Cozens is big and fast and complements better. If he's not ready so be it, but I need to see Thompson. Thompson last year not better than Cozens now.

2. It has to be Skinner Staal Reinhart. If not we're toast. Staal and Reinhart fiot. Both a step slower than some but both smart and deliberate and they can make good plays. Skinner as the shooter. Olofsson might fit but then you discard Skinner.

3. Sheahan shouldn't even be in the line up, Lazar is a checker only. Line is rubbish and I don't want to bury Cozens there. Bottom line for me is if NONE of the younger guys like Asplund or Routsaleinen or even Mitts can crack the lineup we are in deep trouble. At least one or two of those players have to make a step forward.

I'm ok with Eakin Okposo, I see them as fitting, and so in my groupings I see Olofsson there. I suppose you could swap Olofsson and Skinner but 4th line is still garbage and Tage has to show me before I give him anything. 

[Thorny]

55 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

perhaps I took the abbreviation incorrectly. Where I live "ftfy"  means f this and f you. 

Lmao no no of course not. I've honestly never seen it used that way. 

"Fixed that for you". I added in a dumb joke. 

[PerreaultForever]

58 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Lmao no no of course not. I've honestly never seen it used that way. 

"Fixed that for you". I added in a dumb joke. 

lol, I had no idea. I didn't read the quote either. "no neck" got it. Several years ago my kids were still kids and they used to watch Dr. Who. The youngest said (during a Nashville playoff game) their coach looks like a Sontaran, and I went to google images to get 2 pictures and see it's already been done.

 

 

[triumph_communes]

7 hours ago, #freejame said:

I snipped some out but I couldnt disagree more with what I’m thinking is a McD-Diggs/Skinner-Ralph comparison. Diggs was poorly utilized and unhappy in Minnesota and came to Buffalo. He has said on a number of time everyone from Allen to Daboll to McDermott allows him to play his game and trusts him to make smart decisions. Skinner was in a very similar situation in Carolina when he was traded here and said many of the same things. Now we have Ralph and we have the current iteration of Skinner. McDermott is a person of the people and the way that his players speak of him is nothing like that of Ralph. Yea, plenty of Sabres praise Ralph in different ways, but it is nothing like the love and affection and respect and admiration that Bills players speak of McD. Skinner was never worth his contract, that isn’t on Ralph. But much of what has transpired with Skinner is totally and completely on Ralph. This is the closest I’ll ever come to defending Skinner, but he’s certainly not fully responsible here. Let him play his game, that’s why you signed him. 

You’re missing the part where Diggs wasn’t brought in until the room had transformed. McDermott also brought in people like Benjamin who went nowhere because it wasn’t there yet. Skinner is more like Dareus

 

 

[triumph_communes]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

1. No. I like Hall Eichel Cozens. Cozens is big and fast and complements better. If he's not ready so be it, but I need to see Thompson. Thompson last year not better than Cozens now.

2. It has to be Skinner Staal Reinhart. If not we're toast. Staal and Reinhart fiot. Both a step slower than some but both smart and deliberate and they can make good plays. Skinner as the shooter. Olofsson might fit but then you discard Skinner.

3. Sheahan shouldn't even be in the line up, Lazar is a checker only. Line is rubbish and I don't want to bury Cozens there. Bottom line for me is if NONE of the younger guys like Asplund or Routsaleinen or even Mitts can crack the lineup we are in deep trouble. At least one or two of those players have to make a step forward.

I'm ok with Eakin Okposo, I see them as fitting, and so in my groupings I see Olofsson there. I suppose you could swap Olofsson and Skinner but 4th line is still garbage and Tage has to show me before I give him anything. 

On paper, the points you make may seem plausible. 

In two scrimmages it was clear that Cozens was struggling to keep up physically against AHL players, Skinner was killing all the momentum Staal and Reinhart would build, Thompson was a good fit, and Mittelstadt is a renewed hope. 
 

and the coaches got to see a whole lot more than we did in the scrimmage. 

[Radar]

7 hours ago, erickompositör72 said:

It was alluded to before, but I think it's important to point out that Skinner-type players are "streaky" because so many of their chances are based on good/bad bounces. Someone mentioned he did create many chances last year and didn't get the right bounces, etc.

 

Understandably, every coach wishes you could be more like Eichel (or even Reinhart) than Skinner. But Skinner is one of the best in league at what he does, and I really think last year he was mostly just unlucky.

 

Predicting a big bounce-back for Skinner this season (or, at least- what's the term- "regression to the mean"- but in this case, "progression," rather than "regression")

Hope you're right on Skinner. With that albatross of a contract we're stuck. Hopefully him and RK are not at odds and Skinner is motivated. Guaranteed contracts you better be right because they become an anchor if not.

[tom webster]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

You keep going back to Trotz in Washington but might I remind you that he inherited a talented team with talented players and they went through 3 years of badly under achieving in the playoffs before finally putting it together for one successful cup run and then, because of that and maybe because of his tenuous relationship with those names his contract was not renewed and he had to go to the island despite winning a Stanley Cup. 

Trotz does much better with lesser talented teams that he can elevate using his system. I agree Ralph has some similar ideas (it's kind of basic defense first hockey) but I think in order for everyone to buy in fully he is going to need some actual success. At the moment I suspect Skinner thinks he knows better and since his contract is locked up he's in control in his mind. 

I guess last year soured me on Skinner and as a fan I expect him to at least try to earn his contract. idk how this will resolve, but it is a potential hurdle that could be disastrous. Let's hope they figure out a way to please both of them.

What he also fails to mention is that Trotz first two years in Washington where spent realing in the offense. They went from one of worst defensive teams to being sixth in the league in goals against in first year under Trotz  and it took a couple years before players became comfortable and before they turned it around and won Cup there was friction between OVI and Trotz. It’s a similar story to Hitchcock and Modano.

[bob_sauve28]

9 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Tomorrow by 5pm rosters need to be finalized but waivers are at noon

I wonder if there might be a goalie that is decent we can nab off of waivers?? 

[Derrico]

15 minutes ago, tom webster said:

What he also fails to mention is that Trotz first two years in Washington where spent realing in the offense. They went from one of worst defensive teams to being sixth in the league in goals against in first year under Trotz  and it took a couple years before players became comfortable and before they turned it around and won Cup there was friction between OVI and Trotz. It’s a similar story to Hitchcock and Modano.

Good points.  The coach is the coach and I don't want someone who's focus is more on keeping players happy then keeping players motivated and in the best position for the team to win.  If you don't like your ice time or line mates then work harder at playing the system and moving up in the lineup.  You shouldn't be happy based on what you've shown from last November to today.  Blame RK all you want, the guy is too talented to be completely invisible for long stretches like he was last year.

17 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I wonder if there might be a goalie that is decent we can nab off of waivers?? 

Ya this should be an interesting waiver list I would think. 

Anyone know what the cap situation looks like?  I assume Girgs salary is coming off the books so there should be atleast that to add if necessary?

[Shootica]

21 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I wonder if there might be a goalie that is decent we can nab off of waivers?? 

Looks like both Toronto and Arizona are planning to carry 3 goalies into the season.  Maybe there's more, that's off the top of my head.

And unfortunately for us, New Jersey has a higher waiver priority than us and has an even bigger need in net.

[JohnC]

13 hours ago, Curt said:

If I were to ask sarcastically.  It could be a dishonest question if I already had my mind made up.

What's the sarcasm emoji? 

Just an observation but often it is often difficult to distinguish the difference between sarcasm and seriousness when reading the page. On the other hand it is easier to detect sarcasm when in the presence of the commentator where tone and facial expression/body language are more evident.