Buffalo Sabres Training Camp (2020/21)

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Shootica said:

I think there's a lot of potential if Tage could do the same.

I was going to post something similar but you beat me to it.

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Sam Reinhart will be fine! 

No, it's SAMSON REINHART WILL BE FINE

Don't dilute the branding.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Don't put too much stock into training camp shuffles, but I am glad to see Borgen progressing; I want to see the concept of Will to actually hit and he's getting old.

Also (same caveat) glad to see Tage getting a legit shot. His emergence is important.

Finally, has Skinner showed chemistry with anyone other than Jack his entire career?

On that note, @LGR4GMI like the idea of Jeff with R2 on an offensive 3rd line

If they give him another center who can't create it will be the same results. I am and remain HIGHLY skeptical of Ralph Krueger as a coach. 

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If they give him another center who can't create it will be the same results. I am and remain HIGHLY skeptical of Ralph Krueger as a coach. 

But Skinner doesn't need a centre who can create, at least not in the traditional sense of threading the needle to him in open spaces. He needs a centre who can keep the puck in the offensive zone, get pucks to the net and cover for his defensive weaknesses.

(Part of the reason why I like the concept of R2 and Cozens)

[jsb]

39 minutes ago, dudacek said:

But Skinner doesn't need a centre who can create, at least not in the traditional sense of threading the needle to him in open spaces. He needs a centre who can keep the puck in the offensive zone, get pucks to the net and cover for his defensive weaknesses.

(Part of the reason why I like the concept of R2 and Cozens)

Not that I disagree with you but R2 and Cozens haven't proved they can do anything in the NHL, much less their rookie years

[Brawndo]

Bold going with only a Top 6 and 2 pairings 

 

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

But Skinner doesn't need a centre who can create, at least not in the traditional sense of threading the needle to him in open spaces. He needs a centre who can keep the puck in the offensive zone, get pucks to the net and cover for his defensive weaknesses.

(Part of the reason why I like the concept of R2 and Cozens)

 

1 hour ago, jsb said:

Not that I disagree with you but R2 and Cozens haven't proved they can do anything in the NHL, much less their rookie years

If this turned into another "Old Goat and Two Kids" line (Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Hull), I would not complain.

25 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Bold going with only a Top 6 and 2 pairings 

 

He wants to saturate Cozens and Quinn and get them playing essentially double shifts to get them into the Sabres system.

[Broken Ankles]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

"The concept of" is one of the better SabreSpace™ creations. (Was that a @Weave thing, or one of our many COVID-19 casualty posters?)

Right now we have the Concept of Dylan Cozens™, the Memory of the Concept of Lawrence Pilut™, the Rebirth of the Concept of Tage Thompson™ and the Wreckage of Casey Mittelstadt™.

The reclamation of the Concept of Jeff Skinner? 

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If they give him another center who can't create it will be the same results. I am and remain HIGHLY skeptical of Ralph Krueger as a coach. 

I think it's fair to be uncertain about Krueger but I'm not highly skeptical... yet anyway. 

[nfreeman]

That Skinner demotion makes me nervous.  The odds of another lost year for him just increased.

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Exactly -- I don't get all the anguish about the bottom 6.  Eakin has enough game to center a 3rd line that contributes offense, and it will be up to Cozens, TT, R2 and Mitts to earn ice time on that line.  I expect at least 1 of them will do so, yielding a 3rd line of, say, TT-Eakin-KO, and I think that line will produce much more offense than any line did last year other than Eichel's line. 

I also think Cozens will force his way into the lineup sooner rather than later and that he will produce more offense than any of the bottom 6 did last year.

I kinda expect R2 and Mitts to be on the taxi squad and then Rochester, but anything is possible there too.

This seems extreme. Who were the most common second line players last year? Johansson, Skinner, Vesey? All three of those players outscored Eakin and KO last year. Thompson would have to absolutely explode for them to come close to matching, for them to score MUCH MORE than the second line last year, A) we'd comfortably, easily make the playoffs , and B)Eakin and KO would need to rejuvenate to their prime level play. 

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

Don't put too much stock into training camp shuffles, but I am glad to see Borgen progressing; I want to see the concept of Will to actually hit and he's getting old.

Also (same caveat) glad to see Tage getting a legit shot. His emergence is important.

Finally, has Skinner showed chemistry with anyone other than Jack his entire career?

On that note, @LGR4GMI like the idea of Jeff with R2 on an offensive 3rd line

Yes, some of those other years he scored 30. 

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

But Skinner doesn't need a centre who can create, at least not in the traditional sense of threading the needle to him in open spaces. He needs a centre who can keep the puck in the offensive zone, get pucks to the net and cover for his defensive weaknesses.

(Part of the reason why I like the concept of R2 and Cozens)

What's the comparison in that regard? Both to me seem to be defensively responsible players. 

[Curt]

20 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This seems extreme. Who were the most common second line players last year? Johansson, Skinner, Vesey? All three of those players outscored Eakin and KO last year. Thompson would have to absolutely explode for them to come close to matching, for them to score MUCH MORE than the second line last year, A) we'd comfortably, easily make the playoffs , and B)Eakin and KO would need to rejuvenate to their prime level play. 

Look at the per game ES numbers.  Okposo and Eakin were pretty close with Skinner, Johansson, Vesey.  It’s not the drop off that you are portraying.

[nfreeman]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This seems extreme. Who were the most common second line players last year? Johansson, Skinner, Vesey? All three of those players outscored Eakin and KO last year. Thompson would have to absolutely explode for them to come close to matching, for them to score MUCH MORE than the second line last year, A) we'd comfortably, easily make the playoffs , and B)Eakin and KO would need to rejuvenate to their prime level play. 

Well, MoJo had 30 pts last year, Skinner had 23 and Vesey had 20.  That's a pretty low bar to clear. 

FWIW, KO had 19 pts in 52 games (12 fewer games than Vesey, 7 fewer than Skinner and 8 fewer than Mojo).  Eakin had 15 pts in 49 games -- again, substantially fewer games than the guys you noted, and the prior year he had 41 pts.

I don't expect KO to recapture his prime and frankly I won't be surprised if he ends up getting healthy-scratched periodically as the season progresses -- but I think either he or his replacement will score at at 25-30 pt pace, and I think the same will be true of Eakin and TT.

Beyond the numbers, I just think that the Sabres' forward group was a vast wasteland last year whenever Eichel's line wasn't on the ice, and I think the new centers plus the influx of talented youth at forward will generate a substantial improvement in scoring depth.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

Well, MoJo had 30 pts last year, Skinner had 23 and Vesey had 20.  That's a pretty low bar to clear. 

FWIW, KO had 19 pts in 52 games (12 fewer games than Vesey, 7 fewer than Skinner and 8 fewer than Mojo).  Eakin had 15 pts in 49 games -- again, substantially fewer games than the guys you noted, and the prior year he had 41 pts.

I don't expect KO to recapture his prime and frankly I won't be surprised if he ends up getting healthy-scratched periodically as the season progresses -- but I think either he or his replacement will score at at 25-30 pt pace, and I think the same will be true of Eakin and TT.

Beyond the numbers, I just think that the Sabres' forward group was a vast wasteland last year whenever Eichel's line wasn't on the ice, and I think the new centers plus the influx of talented youth at forward will generate a substantial improvement in scoring depth.

I don't care to do the ground work here but if a team has a checking line that has 3 guys scoring at a 25-30 pace, I think we'll be the best team in the league?

Agree on the improved unit as a whole. I just think the expectations for a checking line are teetering here. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, Curt said:

Look at the per game ES numbers.  Okposo and Eakin were pretty close with Skinner, Johansson, Vesey.  It’s not the drop off that you are portraying.

He said produce "much more" offence, though. 

And the key here is that's the checking line - they'll be doing it with much less offensive usage than than whoever was playing on our second line. I don't really care to argue this, with all do respect things are jumping the shark a bit if we are seeing arguments about our checking line contributing 90 points.

[Thorny]

Tampa's common 3rd line (not even a checking 3rd line like ours would be) of Gourde, Paquette and Maroon paced for 90 points over 82 last year. 

Are Eakin, Okposo, and Thompson prepared to challenge this feat? 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Rasmus_]

23 hours ago, freester said:

Tage will be an impact player this year. 

Or a major bust, which is more likely.

[Taro T]

Just now, TheCerebral1 said:

Or a major bust, which is more likely.

You're in Phoenix?  Thought you were in Germany.  

[Rasmus_]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

You're in Phoenix?  Thought you were in Germany.  

Nope, Originally born in Rochester, lived in Webster, NY until 2016, and relocated.  Tired of snow.  I've bled Sabres B&G since 1984.  Thompson, has the tools and a decent shot.  He's just shown nothing to me, that he'll be consistent or has the mental edge on that side.  In addition, he's starting to seem very injury prone.  I'm hoping for a Stafford like inconsistent forward, but I've completely blanked out the entire O'Reilly trade outside of possibly Ryan Johnson.

Edited January 8, 2021 by TheCerebral1

[Curt]

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

He said produce "much more" offence, though. 

And the key here is that's the checking line - they'll be doing it with much less offensive usage than than whoever was playing on our second line. I don't really care to argue this, with all do respect things are jumping the shark a bit if we are seeing arguments about our checking line contributing 90 points.

Yeah, I just wanted to point it out that the per game ES numbers were not far off between those players.

I don’t really have a good feel for how the bottom 6 will be used this coming season.  Would TT-Eakin-Okposo really even be used as a defensive checking line?  I don’t know.

All I can say thus far is that the effectiveness of the bottom 6 will in large part depend upon how good the young guys are. Eakin, Okposo, Reider, Sheahan are not going to do anything good if they are the best players in the bottom 6.  It’s going to be up to Cozens, Thompson, Mitts, Routsalainen, even Lazar to make the bottom 6 good.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Today's line.  

4 Taylor Hall - 9 Jack Eichel - 72 Tage Thompson
68 Victor Olofsson - 12 Eric Staal - 23 Sam Reinhart
53 Jeff Skinner - 27 Curtis Lazar - 38 Riley Sheahan
13 Tobias Rieder - 20 Cody Eakin - 21 Kyle Okposo
25 Arttu Ruotsalainen - 74 Rasmus Asplund - 37 Casey Mittelstadt 

These are even better then yesterday.  Lazar centering Skinner, that's really going to help get Skinner back on track.  The season starts in 5 days.  Ralph, please put some line together that make some sense.  Also having all 5 of Eakin, Rieder, Lazar, KO and Sheahan in your bottom 6 is a huge mistake.  We can do better.

I understand that Staal/Reinhart are now a pair just like Jack/Hall, please try to put some like Skinner in a place to prosper.  

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Today's line.  

4 Taylor Hall - 9 Jack Eichel - 72 Tage Thompson
68 Victor Olofsson - 12 Eric Staal - 23 Sam Reinhart
53 Jeff Skinner - 27 Curtis Lazar - 38 Riley Sheahan
13 Tobias Rieder - 20 Cody Eakin - 21 Kyle Okposo
25 Arttu Ruotsalainen - 74 Rasmus Asplund - 37 Casey Mittelstadt 

These are even better then yesterday.  Lazar centering Skinner, that's really going to help get Skinner back on track.  The season starts in 5 days.  Ralph, please put some line together that make some sense.  Also having all 5 of Eakin, Rieder, Lazar, KO and Sheahan in your bottom 6 is a huge mistake.  We can do better.

I understand that Staal/Reinhart are now a pair just like Jack/Hall, please try to put some like Skinner in a place to prosper.  

Ruotsalainen is the guy we both (I think?) want to see at 3C there, but the most eye-drawing blotch is Sheahan - him being in the lineup at all to me is a bit of a Derp as I think he's a 13th F. If Cozens is there instead, the line could work in theory with Lazar. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ruotsalainen is the guy we both (I think?) want to see at 3C there, but the most eye-drawing blotch is Sheahan - him being in the lineup at all to me is a bit of a Derp as I think he's a 13th F. If Cozens is there instead, the line could work in theory with Lazar. 

Imho I want Eakin to either center the shutdown line of Rieder/Sheahan and KO or as the vet between 2 kids.  My real preference is for Cozens (if he is ready) to center Thompson and Mitts/Routsalainen.  We need to commit to the future.  If it doesn't work, we have a whole taxi squad worth of vets to sub in for those injured or not doing the job.

Hall Eichel Olofsson

Skinner Staal Reinhart

Sheahan Eakin KO

Mittelstadt Cozens Thompson

That's my preference.  I have zero problem with Routsalainen beating out Mitts or Cozens.  

This approach does the following

1. It creates two very skilled and accomplished scoring line.  These are our 6 proven offensive forwards.  Make it work RK

2.  Since Eakin is the Larsson substitute and Sheahan the Girgensons sub, and both are decent to good defensively, make them the shutdown line.  

3.  RK can utilize, especially at home, the kids at a 3rd offensive weapon.  Skill wise they should have a huge mismatch against most teams they play.  It would also be great experience in a not overly pressured situation.  Hopefully they produce, gain confidence and more PT, as the season progresses

4.  A Taxi squad with Rieder and Lazar gives us two proven NHL players we can sub in on the checking line for injuries and matchups.  Have a high skill player like Mitts or Routsalainen in Rochester to also call up in case of injury would also help.