Keeping Hall Long-term?

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I really don't think so. I can't see Reinhart Skinner Staal working as well. You're taking the big line from the year before and switching Eichel for Staal, and that's quite a drop off. Skinner and Reinhart both go towards the net so you need a guy to control the open ice. Staal also goes to the front so a speedy winger on that line is a better fit for the line chemistry.

Any sort of sniper would fit with Hall/Eichel so yes, Olofsson will get points/goals on that line but I'd rather see a net guy for garbage rebounds and let Jack shoot more. As much as I'm not a Reinhart fan, he'd fit that role better from our roster than Olofsson. I see a lot of Eichel carrying the puck, passing to Hall who will draw the D away from Jack and then pass back to Jack and shoots/scores or rebound for Sam. 

I might be jumping the gun, but if you really want Sam on line 2, I actually think Cozens would fit better than Olofsson on line 1. Guy loves to get in close and mix it up. 

We can agree to disagree about Reinhart or Olofsson on the top line.

As for Cozens, have long been a proponent of having him get time as Eichel's RW once he's acclimated to the NHL.  He could be the missing winger necessary to let the Sabres recreate Filly's old Legion of Doom line.

Being able to keep that LT, would require Staal to somehow find the fountain of youth, Mittelstadt to step up, or them finding somebody else to take on the 2C role effectively.  Which was a big part of why my preference in the draft was Rossi or Perfetti (or even Lundell) rather than Quinn.  That seemed to provide more flexibility LT than the actual pick gives.  But if Quinn really can fit that 1RW role in 2-3 years still gives the Sabres that overpowering 1st line but now Cozens is working on the 2nd line.

[klos1963]

18 hours ago, Thorny said:

I'd bet on Dahlin and give him term. He's on a completely different level to Reinhart. 

No reason to while he's still under team control.  We keep hearing that he's still so young and isn't there yet, so why give him a contract that he hasn't earned yet?

[Curt]

8 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

No reason to while he's still under team control.  We keep hearing that he's still so young and isn't there yet, so why give him a contract that he hasn't earned yet?

Not saying they should or shouldn’t, but I’ll lay out the answer to your question.

“why give him a contract that he hasn't earned yet?”

Because you believe that he will be worth that contract, and more.

If you were able to sign Dahlin to a 6x8 contract, and he becomes a Norris level guy 2 years into the deal, then that is a fantastic bargain contract.

As opposed to signing him to a 2x4 bridge contract, and then signing him to 8x10 after he has a Norris caliber season.

[klos1963]

40 minutes ago, Curt said:

Not saying they should or shouldn’t, but I’ll lay out the answer to your question.

“why give him a contract that he hasn't earned yet?”

Because you believe that he will be worth that contract, and more.

If you were able to sign Dahlin to a 6x8 contract, and he becomes a Norris level guy 2 years into the deal, then that is a fantastic bargain contract.

As opposed to signing him to a 2x4 bridge contract, and then signing him to 8x10 after he has a Norris caliber season.

Why would Dahlin sign a 6x8 deal when in 2 seasons, he could likely get 8x10?  His bridge deal would be more 2x6, not 2x4.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, klos1963 said:

No reason to while he's still under team control.  We keep hearing that he's still so young and isn't there yet, so why give him a contract that he hasn't earned yet?

There are a limited number of young players that are guaranteed to become elite players. However, he's is one of the few players in that category that barring injury is likely to become an elite multi-faceted defenseman. As @Curt stated it is better to sign him sooner rather than later before he becomes more established. If you want to get a better bargain on his contract it would be wise not to take a "show me" approach when what is already seen is that this burgeoning player's talents are already evident. 

[klos1963]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There are a limited number of young players that are guaranteed to become elite players. However, he's is one of the few players in that category that barring injury is likely to become an elite multi-faceted defenseman. As @Curt stated it is better to sign him sooner rather than later before he becomes more established. If you want to get a better bargain on his contract it would be wise not to take a "show me" approach when what is already seen is that this burgeoning player's talents are already evident. 

Why would Dahlin sign a lessor long term deal now, when , as you say, he's destined to become an 'elite multi faceted defenseman ' when he could demand a contract commensurate with the value of an elite defenseman.   By multi faceted to you mean along with offense, he'll be a physical, strong defensive player, because I think that's a stretch. 

He's not worth $8 million a year today.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Why would Dahlin sign a lessor long term deal now, when , as you say, he's destined to become an 'elite multi faceted defenseman ' when he could demand a contract commensurate with the value of an elite defenseman.   By multi faceted to you mean along with offense, he'll be a physical, strong defensive player, because I think that's a stretch. 

He's not worth $8 million a year today.

Players sign bridge deals all the time to get more money sooner with the expectation that they will get more money later. Jack is an example of that. And from an organization standpoint getting him signed sooner benefits the organization. For the player signing a bridge deal gets them more upfront money and is hedge against a devastating injury that could end or curtail his career. There is another factor that the player and his agent have to consider. Because of the sport's revenue uncertainties caused by this pernicious covid the economics of the league could dramatically be depressed for years. So getting money upfront would make sense.  

[klos1963]

23 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Players sign bridge deals all the time to get more money sooner with the expectation that they will get more money later. Jack is an example of that. And from an organization standpoint getting him signed sooner benefits the organization. For the player signing a bridge deal gets them more upfront money and is hedge against a devastating injury that could end or curtail his career. There is another factor that the player and his agent have to consider. Because of the sport's revenue uncertainties caused by this pernicious covid the economics of the league could dramatically be depressed for years. So getting money upfront would make sense.  

Jack didn't sign a bridge,  Sam did though.

[Taro T]

34 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Jack didn't sign a bridge,  Sam did though.

Eichel is elite.  Reinhart isn't.

[klos1963]

34 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Eichel is elite.  Reinhart isn't.

I understand. The poster, in replying to my comment,  mentioned Eichel signing a bridge deal. I only pointed out that he did not.

[Curt]

6 hours ago, klos1963 said:

Why would Dahlin sign a 6x8 deal when in 2 seasons, he could likely get 8x10?  His bridge deal would be more 2x6, not 2x4.

Use whatever numbers you want I guess, the accuracy of my off the cuff prediction was not the point.

The point is that signing Dahlin to a long term deal right now, would be cheaper than signing him to a long  term deal 2-3 years from now after he has performed at an elite level.  That’s why it could make sense for the Sabres to sign Dahlin to a long term contract ASAP, even if he hasn’t quite “earned” that salary number yet.  Contracts are about what you predict the player to do over the duration of that contract, not about what they have done previously.

It does, of course, as always, depend on the numbers that both sides are looking for.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Curt

[klos1963]

3 minutes ago, Curt said:

Use whatever numbers you want I guess, the accuracy of my off the cuff prediction was not the point.

The point is that signing Dahlin to a long term deal right now, would be cheaper than signing him to a long  term deal 2-3 years from now after he has performed at an elite level.  That’s why it could make sense for the Sabres to sign Dahlin to a long term contract ASAP, even if he hasn’t quite “earned” that salary number yet.  Contracts are about what you predict the player to do over the duration of that contract, not about what they have done previously.

It does, of course, as always, depend on the numbers that both sides are looking for.

My question would be why would Dahlin take a long term deal now for much less than one he could possibly earn 2 years later.  You did address that in your last sentence, but it's a significant factor. 

[PerreaultForever]

18 hours ago, Taro T said:

As for Cozens, have long been a proponent of having him get time as Eichel's RW once he's acclimated to the NHL.  He could be the missing winger necessary to let the Sabres recreate Filly's old Legion of Doom line.

If you haven't already read the article on the front do so and believe!

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/how-dylan-cozens-used-the-terrain-around-whitehorse-to-prep-for-sabres-camp/article_badd41a6-34db-11eb-baee-039b4caed262.html

 

I think Danny Briere was the last Sabre to play with tractor tires in his off season. Not sure, but those damn things be heavy. 

[LGR4GM]

Dahlin and Risto have used tires as training regiments. I am sure there are others. 

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

Kinda glad I only popped in once before today on this post.  Maybe everyone is catching a bit of the cabin fever.  

A couple points I've picked up along the way from reading fortune cookies:

1) it's ok if people don't agree with you; opinions are subjective by definition

2) not everyone is always going to agree with you, and that's ok, because see #1

3) people approach situations from different perspectives, which is typically the source of #2

4) you may disagree with the assessment and value others assign to the beliefs used develop their opinion, but we already knew that from #3 

5) getting angry or upset about someone else not adhering to your set of beliefs about line combinations or salary projects demonstrates a concerning lack of understanding and empathy and I recommend you review points 1 through 4 again 

Thanks for playing.

[Zamboni]

4 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

Kinda glad I only popped in once before today on this post.  Maybe everyone is catching a bit of the cabin fever.  

A couple points I've picked up along the way from reading fortune cookies:

1) it's ok if people don't agree with you; opinions are subjective by definition

2) not everyone is always going to agree with you, and that's ok, because see #1

3) people approach situations from different perspectives, which is typically the source of #2

4) you may disagree with the assessment and value others assign to the beliefs used develop their opinion, but we already knew that from #3 

5) getting angry or upset about someone else not adhering to your set of beliefs about line combinations or salary projects demonstrates a concerning lack of understanding and empathy and I recommend you review points 1 through 4 again 

Thanks for playing.

One can project that out to many topics. Not just sports. The problem is, there’s a growing number of people who don’t have that mindset instilled in them at a young age or even early adulthood. But in the narrow scope of sports and forums or by extension social media, it’s quite pervasive. And a healthy portion of participants don’t see it. Or try to Internet tough guy bully you into thinking their way. 😂

[Thorny]

23 hours ago, klos1963 said:

My question would be why would Dahlin take a long term deal now for much less than one he could possibly earn 2 years later.  You did address that in your last sentence, but it's a significant factor. 

It's all about risk tolerance. There's always the chance of injury or drop off. Getting absolute top dollar might not also, always, be the ONLY concern to these guys. 

Dahlin might just be someone who wants to lock in his future and the peace of mind that comes with it. 

[klos1963]

Just now, Thorny said:

It's all about risk tolerance. There's always the chance of injury or drop off. Getting absolute top dollar might not also, always, be the ONLY concern to these guys. 

Dahlin might just be someone who wants to lock in his future and the peace of mind that comes with it. 

I got 3 notifications that you replied, only seeing one. Did I miss something? 

[Thorny]

Just now, klos1963 said:

I got 3 notifications that you replied, only seeing one. Did I miss something? 

Sometimes I can be a bit of a, ah...perfectionist in getting the minute details right.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Sometimes I can be a bit of a, ah...perfectionist in getting the minute details right.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

I already knew to ignore you. LOL