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The Athletic has put together a "Who would you pay more for in a trade?" ranking that accounts for age, contract and production.

https://theathletic.com/1606480/2020/11/30/nhl-trade-value-rankings/

 

  1. McDavid
  2. McKinnon
  3. Matthews
  4. Pastrnak
  5. Draisaitl
  6. Point
  7. Kucherov
  8. Heiskanen
  9. Makar
  10. Pettersson
  11. Quinn Hughes

 

Jack Eichel is 12th.

"The Sabres’ cornerstone doesn’t have quite the same cache as the other up-and-comers ahead of him on this list. But ask yourself this: What would Eichel look like on a more stable team with better talent around him?

Buffalo had 68 points last season, failing to qualify for even the expanded playoffs. But what more could you ask from Eichel, who produced well over a point per game while scoring at a 40-goal pace? He was fourth in expected goals above replacement.

You can understand why Eichel is frustrated and why new Sabres brass will try to do everything possible to turn things around, beginning with the signing of Taylor Hall this offseason. Hall will very likely be the best player Eichel has played with in the NHL. What kind of damage will he do with the 2018 MVP on his line?

Eichel turned 24 in late October, and while he’s not quite a bargain, he’s signed for the next six seasons. In time, that contract may deliver plenty of value. He won’t be a free agent again until 2026 when he’ll be nearing 30."

 

Dahlin is 19th.

He just had back-to-back 40-point seasons, playing around 20 minutes a night, as a teenager. Dahlin turned 20 in April.

 

Only guys I'd trade Jack for are McKinnon and McDavid. How about the rest of you?

Edited by dudacek
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I can’t see the justification for Matthews at 3 and Eichel at 12.  Eichel is signed for 2 years longer (6 yrs vs 4) at $1.5M less.  They are very similar in quality.

Funny that the Maple Leafs reporter made the list, isn’t it?

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Terrible list

Is that Quinn as in Hughes?

I don't really have a problem with any of the forwards listed ahead of Jack, even if I disagree with a few. 

But those D are no bueno. Centres are more valuable, and even that's only what I'd go to, as a decider, if the talent was close.

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NHL Networks Top 20 centers (2020) in order - I added the ages and draft class

NHL Network’s Top 20 Centers

Connor McDavid, Edmonton Oilers (24 on Jan 13) - 2015

Nathan MacKinnon, Colorado Avalanche (25) - 2013

Leon Draisaitl, Edmonton Oilers (25) - 2014

Sidney Crosby, Pittsburgh Penguins 

Auston Matthews, Toronto Maple Leafs (23) - 2016

Jack Eichel, Buffalo Sabres (24) - 2015

Patrice Bergeron, Boston Bruins

Evgeni Malkin, Pittsburgh Penguins

Brayden Point, Tampa Bay Lightning (24) - 2014

Mika Zibanejad, New York Rangers - 2011

Aleksander Barkov, Florida Panthers (25) - 2013

Mark Scheifele, Winnipeg Jets - 2011

Sebastian Aho, Carolina Hurricanes (23) - 2015

John Tavares, Toronto Maple Leafs

Ryan O’Reilly, St. Louis Blues

Elias Pettersson, Vancouver Canucks (22) - 2017

Steven Stamkos, Tampa Bay Lightning

Sean Couturier, Philadelphia Flyers - 2011

Mathew Barzal, New York Islanders (23) - 2015

Anze Kopitar, Los Angeles Kings

 

So....  Draisaitl is the 3rd best center, but 5th on the trade list behind the 5th best center in Matthews and a winger.  Eichel is the 6th best center yet 12th on the trade line behind 9th and 16th best centers who are the same age or older.  What a joke of a list.  FYI I like this center list from the NHL.

As to Matthews vs. Eichel - Matthews is a great goal scorer, but Eichel is the better all around player and improving as a goal scorer.  Jack actually kills penalties on occasion and is on the ice at the end of games defending a lead.  No so much for Matthews.  Matthews is much better in the faceoff circle.  I guess what it comes down to for me is that I look at Matthews as a one dimensional player (goal scorer).  Eichel scores, but also creates and makes the players around him better.

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9 hours ago, Curt said:

I can’t see the justification for Matthews at 3 and Eichel at 12.  Eichel is signed for 2 years longer (6 yrs vs 4) at $1.5M less.  They are very similar in quality.

Funny that the Maple Leafs reporter made the list, isn’t it?

Spot on. We've already seen Jack best him head to head several times. 

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15 hours ago, dudacek said:

The Athletic has put together a "Who would you pay more for in a trade?" ranking that accounts for age, contract and production.

https://theathletic.com/1606480/2020/11/30/nhl-trade-value-rankings/

 

  1. McDavid
  2. McKinnon
  3. Matthews
  4. Pastrnak
  5. Draisaitl
  6. Point
  7. Kucherov
  8. Heiskanen
  9. Makar
  10. Pettersson
  11. Quinn Hughes

 

Jack Eichel is 12th.

"The Sabres’ cornerstone doesn’t have quite the same cache as the other up-and-comers ahead of him on this list. But ask yourself this: What would Eichel look like on a more stable team with better talent around him?

Buffalo had 68 points last season, failing to qualify for even the expanded playoffs. But what more could you ask from Eichel, who produced well over a point per game while scoring at a 40-goal pace? He was fourth in expected goals above replacement.

You can understand why Eichel is frustrated and why new Sabres brass will try to do everything possible to turn things around, beginning with the signing of Taylor Hall this offseason. Hall will very likely be the best player Eichel has played with in the NHL. What kind of damage will he do with the 2018 MVP on his line?

Eichel turned 24 in late October, and while he’s not quite a bargain, he’s signed for the next six seasons. In time, that contract may deliver plenty of value. He won’t be a free agent again until 2026 when he’ll be nearing 30."

 

Dahlin is 19th.

He just had back-to-back 40-point seasons, playing around 20 minutes a night, as a teenager. Dahlin turned 20 in April.

 

Only guys I'd trade Jack for are McKinnon and McDavid. How about the rest of you?

How is Eichel not 3 or 4 or 5?   You can argue about  Eichel,  Mathews and Draisaitl all day but who would trade Eichel straight up for Pastrnak or Point?   Not I.  

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@GASabresIUFANI like your focus on their differing skills re: Matthews and Eichel. I think they are close enough that it's really splitting hairs and comes down to stylistic preference, but for me, and I believe regardless of my inherent Sabres bias, I'd take Jack every time between the two because he's a better centre iceman, specifically, in terms of the skills one historically looks to from that position. 

Matthews works for the Leafs, however, because they can stick a guy like Marner on his wing, who actually has the more traditional centre skills himself. 

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6 hours ago, Pimlach said:

How is Eichel not 3 or 4 or 5?   You can argue about  Eichel,  Mathews and Draisaitl all day but who would trade Eichel straight up for Pastrnak or Point?   Not I.  

I don't know if I'll ever get there with Leon. He plays half his minutes with the best player in the world, last I checked. Imagine what Eichel would look like on McDavid's wing. Eichel is better than Draisaitl. 

Also, both McDavid and Draisaitl are a significant step down defensively from Eichel and Matthews, for what it's worth. McDavid being, in reality, quite atrocious on the defensive front is why he's got a long, LONG way to go before he's even in the conversation with a player like Sidney Crosby, in the all-time sense.  

Edited by Thorny
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3 hours ago, Thorny said:

@GASabresIUFANI like your focus on their differing skills re: Matthews and Eichel. I think they are close enough that it's really splitting hairs and comes down to stylistic preference, but for me, and I believe regardless of my inherent Sabres bias, I'd take Jack every time between the two because he's a better centre iceman, specifically, in terms of the skills one historically looks to from that position. 

Matthews works for the Leafs, however, because they can stick a guy like Marner on his wing, who actually has the more traditional centre skills himself. 

Only MacDavid has been better than MacKinnon over the last few years which is why he is always talked about when it comes to the MVP. His next contract will reflect his worth and it'll be a doozy.

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Eichel vs MacKinnon

Eichel 1st 4 seasons - 286 gms 101g 158a 259 pts - .35 g/gp .91 pts/gp

MacKinnon 1st 4 - 300 gms  75g 131a 206 pts - .25 g/gp  .69 pts/gp

Eichel year 5 - 68 gms 36g 42a 78 pts - .53 g/gp 1.14 pts/gp

MacKinnon year 5 - 74 gms 39g 58a 97 pts - .53 g/gp 1.31 pts/gp

I'd argue that Jack breakout is very similar to Mac's except he didn't have Mikko Rantanen on his wing.  Rantanen had 84 pts that season playing with MacKinnon.  He scored goals at the same pace as Mac in year 5 and with a performing Skinner the year before Jack added 54 assists in 77 games.  Based on these last two seasons don't be surprised if Jack reaches 95 plus pts (in a full 82 game season) with Hall on his wing.  When that happens where will he be ranked?  My guess is right with MacKinnon. 

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I've watched Quinn Hughes play a lot. The kid is a difference-maker, an offensive force who just makes plays.

Anyone who would take him over Eichel doesn't watch either player enough. The writer gave his bias away when he said Jack doesn't have the same cachet — he's talking about the hype that comes from doing amazing things on a big stage.

Jack's rep in these sorts of exercises will continue to be undersold until the Sabres are relevant.

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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I've watched Quinn Hughes play a lot. The kid is a difference-maker, an offensive force who just makes plays.

Anyone who would take him over Eichel doesn't watch either player enough. The writer gave his bias away when he said Jack doesn't have the same cachet — he's talking about the hype that comes from doing amazing things on a big stage.

Jack's rep in these sorts of exercises will continue to be undersold until the Sabres are relevant.

The lack of cache is a real thing.  You don’t earn a Captaincy sailing calm seas.  The team needs to win before he gets placed above the guys were are discussing. And IMO it is warranted.  Not to say the losing is Jacks fault.  Rather, noone will know what level he is at until he shows that level in the biggest games.

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43 minutes ago, Weave said:

The lack of cache is a real thing.  You don’t earn a Captaincy sailing calm seas.  The team needs to win before he gets placed above the guys were are discussing. And IMO it is warranted.  Not to say the losing is Jacks fault.  Rather, noone will know what level he is at until he shows that level in the biggest games.

While I obviously agree with most of this, it doesn't even have to be a "win." Pettersson and Hughes have won nothing but they have impressed on the big stages of the Calder race and the Bubble playoffs.

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IMHO, Eichel & MacKinnon are essentially identical though Jack has been slightly better with a lesser surrounding cast on his ELC.

Because they're in the same division, both Americans, & only 1 season apart the writers seem to prefer the comparison between Jack & Matthews; but the correct comparison is Jack & Nate.  And if MacKinnon is ahead of Matthew's, so should Eichel be.

Which do you take, Jack or Nate?  Pretty much comes down to are being 2 years younger worth the slightly worse injury history?  Wouldn't trade either away if he's on my roster.  And McClavicle is the only guy better at this point IMHO.  (Hedman deserves mention too, but haven't really thought about whether he's better or not nor more valuable at this time.)  But not sure could pull the trigger on a Connor for Jack deal either (knowing what you have & how it fits in has a value too) though that would be tempting.

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On 12/2/2020 at 10:15 AM, dudacek said:

I've watched Quinn Hughes play a lot. The kid is a difference-maker, an offensive force who just makes plays.

Anyone who would take him over Eichel doesn't watch either player enough. The writer gave his bias away when he said Jack doesn't have the same cachet — he's talking about the hype that comes from doing amazing things on a big stage.

Jack's rep in these sorts of exercises will continue to be undersold until the Sabres are relevant.

Excellent insight about a team's success being a platform for a player's rating. The person who embraces your view is Jack himself. In the last couple of years he has started to stir and make noise indicating that he is not satisfied with what the organization has done to address roster deficiencies. He hasn't been obnoxious about it or overly public about it. But he has made it clear that he doesn't want to be stuck on a status quo and incremental-minded organization that lacks urgency to get better. Jack is a driven player who wants to be one of the best players in the game, if not in his era. He understands that what separates the special players from merely stat players are players who are on winning and are on Cup serious teams. Needless to say as a leader he's got the right demanding attitude.

 

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On 12/2/2020 at 11:16 AM, Weave said:

The lack of cache is a real thing.  You don’t earn a Captaincy sailing calm seas.  The team needs to win before he gets placed above the guys were are discussing. And IMO it is warranted.  Not to say the losing is Jacks fault.  Rather, noone will know what level he is at until he shows that level in the biggest games.

I agree with your analysis of why Jack doesn't get quite the cache he should (he already does get a lot, he finished 8th in league MVP voting, 6th on NHL.com's centre list, etc) and that we'll have to wait until we are winning more to get it, but I disagree with the bold. 

You'd be giving more weight to Quinn Hughes 90 total career NHL hockey games (regular season and playoffs) than Jack Eichel's 354.

That's gonna be a "no" from me, dawg. Jack is simply on another level. It can be a difference maker at this time when comparing Jack and some of the other guys above him, indeed I'm not outwardly taking issue with the group of players listed above Jack, just a few of them. It's too extreme in those cases. 

Edited by Thorny
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On 12/2/2020 at 12:02 PM, dudacek said:

While I obviously agree with most of this, it doesn't even have to be a "win." Pettersson and Hughes have won nothing but they have impressed on the big stages of the Calder race and the Bubble playoffs.

Well they had a pretty decent playoff run last year, which goes a long way. I think that would get it done for Jack, but the Calder thing is a good point, too. Jack was legit in the MVP race last year while the Sabres were still actually alive. A full season where the Sabres simply make the playoffs, or potentially even just stay alive until the very end, would probably keep him right at the top of the MVP convo/earn him a nomination, and do more less the same job as a playoff appearance in terms of that cache we are speaking about.

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