2020-'21 Sabres Prospects

[jsb]

34 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

And? Risto isn't that good. 

 

I admit this is your opinion but every coach this kid has had except for his rookie year he has led the team in TOI, somehow I'm going to agree with coaches that until Dahlin is ready to take over the team on the backend, everyone else back there must suck because they all play him in all situations and the most of anyone else on the team. So save the hyperbole and admit he may not be as good as YOU want him to be, but he isn't any good??? Please.

[dudacek]

Dahlin Montour

McCabe Jokiharju

Irwin Miller

Borgen

Could work if Dahlin takes the jump we expect.

But we are in terrible, terrible shape if any of the top four get hurt.

I'd much rather trade Miller and keep five guys capable of playing on the top four. It's an underrated strength of the team.

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, tom webster said:

Between Cozens development, Hall’s arrival and a likely Skinner rebound, a Dahlin third year jump and ___________ in goal, I don’t see how this team can’t contend in a shortened season.

How confident are you that we'll even be filling in that blank? Do you have sources or is it more so a strong opinion?

Circumstances are different this year, but until we SEE a later key roster addition, I can't really believe it to be coming when as we've seen before - it doesn't. Not this late. Again, we are sort of in uncharted territory so I won't be shocked or even surprised if it happens, but I don't think it's likely. 

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

And? Risto isn't that good. Montour might be okay but he would be playing his natural side again if we shipped out another RHD. Further it is more important to add a goalie than worrying about what happens if Montour gets nicked up and misses 5 games. Further further, I think Miller is underrated and can slide up if we did trade Montour or Risto. 

I know. We are all in a holding pattern until an official start date is announced. 

 

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Dahlin Montour

McCabe Jokiharju

Irwin Miller

Borgen

Could work if Dahlin takes the jump we expect.

But we are in terrible, terrible shape if any of the top four get hurt.

I'd much rather trade Miller and keep five guys capable of playing on the top four. It's an underrated strength of the team.

Liger's bolded is the key point to me. I understand where you are with Risto, but I only agree with your bolded as far as he goes. We aren't trading him, so assuming he's here, I don't see it as a situation at all where, with Joki and Risto, we'd be in "terrible shape" if we lost Montour. I don't see him as much different in value than Miller, and far far far from being so much better it should prevent us from upgrading in net. 

Neither or Montour or Miller to me are going to provide top 4 value to me anyways, if someone goes down, so I'm not fussed about moving one, or which one that is. 

In truth I wouldn't mind if Risto was the player moved (he won't be), statistically everyone he plays with gets worse, being in a scenario where Krueger and Co don't even have the option of torpedoing our season by playing him the most minutes might just save us. There's a *chance* we'd be in trouble without him, but we are assuredly cooked if we do have him, in the same usual role. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Thorny

[LabattBlue]

Are Borgen and Bryson exempt from the expansion draft next year, or does it matter if they play X number of NHL games they play this season.  
 

The reason I ask is that they are arguably the best blue line prospects that are in the pipeline. 

[Taro T]

20 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Are Borgen and Bryson exempt from the expansion draft next year, or does it matter if they play X number of NHL games they play this season.  
 

The reason I ask is that they are arguably the best blue line prospects that are in the pipeline. 

Not sure how long they've been pros, so can't answer directly.  But whether they have to be protected/ exposed is based on their PRO experience, not NHL experience.

[LabattBlue]

21 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Not sure how long they've been pros, so can't answer directly.  But whether they have to be protected/ exposed is based on their PRO experience, not NHL experience.

Bryson entering his 2nd pro season, Borgen his 3rd. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

Are Borgen and Bryson exempt from the expansion draft next year, or does it matter if they play X number of NHL games they play this season.  
 

The reason I ask is that they are arguably the best blue line prospects that are in the pipeline. 

 

30 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Bryson entering his 2nd pro season, Borgen his 3rd. 

Bryson will be exempt, Borgen will not.

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

How confident are you that we'll even be filling in that blank? Do you have sources or is it more so a strong opinion?

Circumstances are different this year, but until we SEE a later key roster addition, I can't really believe it to be coming when as we've seen before - it doesn't. Not this late. Again, we are sort of in uncharted territory so I won't be shocked or even surprised it it happens, but I don't think it's likely. 

 

Liger's bolded is the key point to me. I understand where you are with Risto, but I only agree with your bolded as far as he goes. We aren't trading him, so assuming he's here, I don't see it as a situation at all where, with Joki and Risto, we'd be in "terrible shape" if we lost Montour. I don't see him as much different in value than Miller, and far far far from being so much better it should prevent us from upgrading in net. 

Neither or Montour or Miller to me are going to provide top 4 value to me anyways, if someone goes down, so I'm not fussed about moving one, or which one that is. 

In truth I wouldn't mind if Risto was the player moved (he won't be), statistically everyone he plays with gets worse, being in a scenario where Krueger and Co don't even have the option of torpedoing our season by playing him the most minutes might just save us. There's a *chance* we'd be in trouble without him, but we are assuredly cooked if we do have him, in the same usual role. 

I frequently feel like it only took one year of too many defencemen for many people to forget about what a shallow blueline looks like. I don't want to go back there.

But I guess this all comes down mostly our differing evaluations of the defencemen we have.

And, as I said before I am willing to move Risto or Montour if there is a real #1 coming back and/or if we can add a McCabe-level player to fill the hole.

My ideal trade remains a variation of Hutton and futures for Keumper

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Bryson will be exempt, Borgen will not.

I frequently feel like it only took one year of too many defencemen for many people to forget about what a shallow blueline looks like. I don't want to go back there.

But I guess this all comes down mostly our differing evaluations of the defencemen we have.

And, as I said before I am willing to move Risto or Montour if there is a real #1 coming back and/or if we can add a McCabe-level player to fill the hole.

My ideal trade remains a variation of Hutton and futures for Keumper

It's definitely that. Interestingly I'd be surprised if we differed even a little in terms of forward evaluations but in terms of the D there are some noticeable gaps. I see Dahlin, Jokiharju, and a bunch of interchangeable ideal 3rd pair players. 

You have Montour, McCabe, and Risto as second pair players - I'm the closest on Risto but him being here at all terrifies me. I wish I had a better idea of what he'd look like with adequate usage, but we don't. We only know he's bad with the usage we've seen. Yet, again we need not bother parsing him anyways as he's going to be here, they love him. 

Dahlin, Jokiharju, Risto and McCabe (left shot) will be here. So we have our top 4, at least 2 in appropriate fashion and potentially 3. So we are getting into the likes of Miller and Montour - 3rd pair players (IMO) I'm not hesitating for a moment to move to address goalie, considering how much more important that G role is compared to that of a 3rd pair D man. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Thorny

[LabattBlue]

34 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Bryson will be exempt, Borgen will not.

Thanks! 👍

[dudacek]

Terrific read on Cozens' off-season:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/how-dylan-cozens-used-the-terrain-around-whitehorse-to-prep-for-sabres-camp/article_badd41a6-34db-11eb-baee-039b4caed262.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

"This offseason, Cozens spent two-and-a-half hours, five days a week, working in and out of McPherson’s gym. Cozens improved his squat from 340 to 470 pounds. Stunned by the feat, McPherson had Cozens switch to single-leg squats and more hockey-specific work to turn the improved strength into power and speed on the ice."

That's in addition to running up sand dunes, pushing tractor tires and doing breathing exercises in the icy Yukon River.

[irregularly irregular]

Most of the time last season it was Miller taking the healthy scratch. Therefore you move Miller, and probably some pieces, for the best LHD you can get.

Keep it simple. Give Ralph something to work with rather than forcing the odd man out onto the gameday roster. 

[tom webster]

You have to remember as well, while these guys are assets, they are also human beings. It’s nice to have depth in Rochester but if you don’t give these guys a chance to make the big club, they eventually want out, just like Pilut. Make no mistake, his departure had as much to do with money as opportunity.

[dudacek]

33 minutes ago, tom webster said:

You have to remember as well, while these guys are assets, they are also human beings. It’s nice to have depth in Rochester but if you don’t give these guys a chance to make the big club, they eventually want out, just like Pilut. Make no mistake, his departure had as much to do with money as opportunity.

Borgen certainly fits that profile, and one would think Asplund, Oglevie and CJ Smith as well.

The flip side of that is "are any of them NHL players?"

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Borgen certainly fits that profile, and one would think Asplund, Oglevie and CJ Smith as well.

The flip side of that is "are any of them NHL players?"

I think Borgen and Asplund are. The other two, you never know, sometimes lightning strikes.

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

Borgen certainly fits that profile, and one would think Asplund, Oglevie and CJ Smith as well.

The flip side of that is "are any of them NHL players?"

The other three are very much long shots especially the latter 2 but I think Borgen is. 

[nfreeman]

On 12/4/2020 at 10:34 PM, dudacek said:

Terrific read on Cozens' off-season:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/how-dylan-cozens-used-the-terrain-around-whitehorse-to-prep-for-sabres-camp/article_badd41a6-34db-11eb-baee-039b4caed262.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

"This offseason, Cozens spent two-and-a-half hours, five days a week, working in and out of McPherson’s gym. Cozens improved his squat from 340 to 470 pounds. Stunned by the feat, McPherson had Cozens switch to single-leg squats and more hockey-specific work to turn the improved strength into power and speed on the ice."

That's in addition to running up sand dunes, pushing tractor tires and doing breathing exercises in the icy Yukon River.

Thanks.  I enjoyed that article quite a bit.  Some great nuggets, e.g.:

Quote

Before leaving for world junior camp, Cozens went to London, Ontario, where skated for six weeks with a group of NHLers, including Bo Horvat of the Vancouver Canucks, Travis Konecny of the Philadelphia Flyers, Boone Jenner of the Columbus Blue Jackets and Jordan Kyrou of the St. Louis Blues.

And from his coaches:

 

Quote

“He’s a special player,” Kisio said. “Buffalo’s going to be happy about the player they have coming in, on and off the ice. … Ever since he came in at 15, he's been one of those guys who always scores big goals. He’s scored them for us. He’s scored them for Hockey Canada. When the game is on the line, he’s a guy you want on the ice and he always delivers. He’s a guy you can rely on every night to play hard. … He’s getting better and better and showing what he can do.”

 

Quote

“The competitiveness, mixed with his size and speed, make him really special,” said Andre Tourigny, Canada’s coach for world juniors. “When you see a big boy like that who can move, who is so driven and plays with that pace ... We could say that about a lot of players: They’re big, fast and skilled. But that doesn’t mean they play with pace. It doesn’t mean they play with that speed and desire to make plays. Dylan has that, though.

 

Holy mackerel I sure hope the season starts soon.  I cannot wait to see this kid, and if he's good enough to stick in the top 6, that will be awesome.

 

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Thanks.  I enjoyed that article quite a bit.  Some great nuggets, e.g.:

And from his coaches:

 

 

 

Holy mackerel I sure hope the season starts soon.  I cannot wait to see this kid, and if he's good enough to stick in the top 6, that will be awesome.

 

The one impression I get every time he is interviewed is his maturity and how well grounded he is. His father is a judge and his mother is a prosecutor so he comes from a high achieving family. Although he had to leave the Yukon to play hockey at higher levels he still is attached to his Alaska roots. Because of some surprising draft picks made (most notably Detroit)  in his draft year we were very fortunate to have him slide a little and be able to draft him. It's not much of a prediction to make that he is going to earn a roster spot but it also won't be so surprising that he works his way up the lines and earns more playing time as the season progresses. (Assuming there is a season or is not abruptly shut down.)

The attached link is an article by Ricardo Nagaoka from the NY Times about Dylan and where he came from.  

N.H.L. Draft Pick Inspires Dreams as Big as the Yukon - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[Curt]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Although he had to leave the Yukon to play hockey at higher levels he still is attached to his Alaska roots.

The Yukon Territory is a part of Canada.  It is not in Alaska.

[JohnC]

54 minutes ago, Curt said:

The Yukon Territory is a part of Canada.  It is not in Alaska.

I humbly stand corrected. 🤡

[Curt]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Truth, they make you show your passport when you cross over from Alaska to the Yukon. 

Whitehorse is what? 100 miles from Skagway?

Google says 109 miles.  I didn’t realize that it was so close.  I forgot about that bit of Alaska that drags down south along the coast.

Its way the heck out there, that’s for sure!

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, JohnC said:

I humbly stand corrected. 🤡

It's OK.  Yukon Cornelius says it's close enough.  😉

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

It's OK.  Yukon Cornelius says it's close enough.  😉

When I am accused of my many faux pas I can comfortably say with confidence that I plead ignorance. 🤡

[Zamboni]

How Cozens visits Alaska  ...

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Well Cozens gets a lot of hype and rightfully so, Tage has apparently filled out that lanky giraffe frame. 

 

I am looking at this as good news, because more heft was definitely necessarily, but God, I hope Tage didn't overdo it and turn into his dad, hurting his speed and agility in the process.

Edited December 14, 2020 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Also, a low-expectations prospect I am really going to be watching closely is Rasmus Asplund.

The growth he showed over his first year pro and his heady two-way game had me going into last year's training camp thinking he might be graduating to the Sabres for good sometime last year.

But he was disappointing in his look-see; his defence wasn't good enough to compensate for his non-existent offence.

I've had really high hopes for him as a 30-point 3C, but that has faded.

Bit of a make-or-break season for Rasmus 3.0