Krueger wants Dylan Cozens to start on the Wing

[Brawndo]

It worked for Kirby Dach in Chicago last year 

[nfreeman]

Interesting, and probably for the best, since it means they won't be relying on him to be the 3C.

[IKnowPhysics]

5 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Interesting, and probably for the best, since it means they won't be relying on him to be the 3C.

It's one way to go.  The other, of course, being starting him at 4C with veteran wingers.

It comes down to line usage.  If you lean on lines 3/4 to take defense zone starts, you probably want to shelter the kid with more offensive zone starts, so you put him top six, but there's no way you lean on him to be the 2C.  If you chessmatch the lines and shelter line 4 with high OZ% and low quality of competition, you can put Cozens at 4C with support.

Looking at this past year's usage, Girgensens-Larsson-Okposo got the defensive zone starts, and there didn't seem to be much chessmatch-ing against different competition for forwards (although it looks like Oloffson-Eichel-Reinhart attracted the opponent's best players slightly more often).  Those two lines also received the most zone start bias, defensively and offensively, respectively.  The other lines either got mixed usage over the season or weren't biased at all.  If RK runs it the same way again, expect Cozens in at middle-six wing with not much competition sheltering and probably not a whole lot of zone start bias either.

[GASabresIUFAN]

No, just no.  If the plan is for this kid to be an NHL center, play him there and only there.  Shelter his minutes, give him veteran wingers, whatever, but play him at center.  I'm sick of converting our centers to wingers.  How do you learn to play center in the NHL if you don't play center in the NHL?

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

42 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Interesting, and probably for the best, since it means they won't be relying on him to be the 3C.

The good news is this (and Adams reaction yesterday when asked about our centre situation) suggests they will be acquiring another centre.

The bad new is this means that right now the 3C spot is occupied by Casey Mittelstadt.

(It was also interesting that when asked about our centre situation yesterday, Adams didn't bring Mittelstadt's name up. It will be interesting to see where he fits into Adams' plans)

[miles]

I heard the show. It wasnt because they want to convert him to winger but to give him minutes in a more sheltered position for a short time until he is comfortable.

I would think by game 30 or 40 he would start getting time at center 

Edited October 8, 2020 by miles

[Sabre fan]

42 minutes ago, miles said:

I heard the show. It wasnt because they want to convert him to winger but to give him minutes in a more sheltered position for a short time until he is comfortable.

I would think by game 30 or 40 he would start getting time at center 

agreed...even start letting him take faceoffs in offensive zone. should not take long for him to adjust and in the meantime he won;t have that immediate pressure that he'd feel if at center. Heck he can play with Staal and Skinner on 2nd line and watch and learn from Eric which would work well

[That Aud Smell]

I like that plan from RaKru.

[inkman]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No, just no.  If the plan is for this kid to be an NHL center, play him there and only there.  Shelter his minutes, give him veteran wingers, whatever, but play him at center.  I'm sick of converting our centers to wingers.  How do you learn to play center in the NHL if you don't play center in the NHL?

 

Many young centers start on the wing in the NHL.  It's a way to get them minutes without putting team goals in jeopardy.  

[jsb]

Sounds like the same thing the Blackhawks did with Kirby Dach. Not sure why this isn't a good idea. Let him get his feet wet before you throw him in the deep end.

[aristocrat]

good call. let him learn the grind of a season and get his confidence up and maybe a shift here and there at center.  

[IKnowPhysics]

Perhaps implied and overlooked, but nonetheless equally important: Ralph Krueger thinks Dylan Cozens is ready to play in the NHL.

[Taro T]

5 hours ago, Brawndo said:

It worked for Kirby Dach in Chicago last year 

Hal-le-####in'-lu-jah!

He'll be a C soon enough.  Let him break in without having to drive a line.  Eichel & Staal can handle that duty for now.

(But also another reason they should've taken Rossi.  When he'd develop, they could've kept the better one at 2C and either put Cozens at 1/2 RW or Rossi @3C.  And if Perfetti were the choice, repeat the analysis but if Perfetti loses the 2C competition slide him to top 6 wing.)

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

The good news is this (and Adams reaction yesterday when asked about our centre situation) suggests they will be acquiring another centre.

The bad new is this means that right now the 3C spot is occupied by Casey Mittelstadt.

(It was also interesting that when asked about our centre situation yesterday,Adams didn't bring Mittelstadt's name up. It will be interesting to see where he fits into Adams' plans)

In Adams interview on WGR with Howard Simon he did bring up Mittelstadt's name. He pointed out that the Mitts is only 21 yrs old and that players have different developmental timetables. That isn't necessarily an indication that he will win a roster spot but it might be an indication that he wants to keep him in the system(AHL) and have him continue growing as a player. 

[Andrew Amerk]

25 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Perhaps implied and overlooked, but nonetheless equally important: Ralph Krueger thinks Dylan Cozens is ready to play in the NHL.

That, or they plan on relying heavily on cheap talent (regardless if they’re ready or not) to fill the roster in order to fit into their “budget.”

Meaning the Tages and Caseys and Wills and Dylans of the world MUST be ready no matter what. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Andrew Amerk

[nfreeman]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

In Adams interview on WGR with Howard Simon he did bring up Mittelstadt's name. He pointed out that the Mitts is only 21 yrs old and that players have different developmental timetables. That isn't necessarily an indication that he will win a roster spot but it might be an indication that he wants to keep him in the system(AHL) and have him continue growing as a player. 

 

9 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

That, or they plan on relying heavily on cheap talent (regardless if they’re ready or not) to fill the roster in order to fit into their “budget.”

Meaning the Tages and Caseys and Wills and Dylans of the world MUST be ready no matter what. 

Based on KA's comments to Howard Simon this AM, I think his near-term expectations for Mitts are pretty low.  He was responding to a question about both Mitts and TT, and he spoke much more positively about TT -- in particular, about how he thinks TT is ready to bust out this year -- while regarding Mitts, he just said that players mature at different rates and he was looking forward to seeing Mitts working hard in camp.  So I don't think he has Mitts penciled in at 3C, or even on the Sabres' roster at all, for this coming season.

 

[Andrew Amerk]

16 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

Based on KA's comments to Howard Simon this AM, I think his near-term expectations for Mitts are pretty low.  He was responding to a question about both Mitts and TT, and he spoke much more positively about TT -- in particular, about how he thinks TT is ready to bust out this year -- while regarding Mitts, he just said that players mature at different rates and he was looking forward to seeing Mitts working hard in camp.  So I don't think he has Mitts penciled in at 3C, or even on the Sabres' roster at all, for this coming season.

 

What KA wants, and what TP commands, might not be the same. 

[Thorny]

6 hours ago, Brawndo said:

It worked for Kirby Dach in Chicago last year 

He shouldn't be penciled into the top 6, regardless, Lance Lysowski. 

How much has Krueger seen Cozens play first hand? Shouldn't be entering into the season with pre-conceived notions. 

I'd be fine with Cozens starting on the wing if that's what's best for him. Hopefully on the 3rd line, in a sheltered offensive role. We should be bringing in a top-6 capable wing. 

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

It's one way to go.  The other, of course, being starting him at 4C with veteran wingers.

It comes down to line usage.  If you lean on lines 3/4 to take defense zone starts, you probably want to shelter the kid with more offensive zone starts, so you put him top six, but there's no way you lean on him to be the 2C.  If you chessmatch the lines and shelter line 4 with high OZ% and low quality of competition, you can put Cozens at 4C with support.

Looking at this past year's usage, Girgensens-Larsson-Okposo got the defensive zone starts, and there didn't seem to be much chessmatch-ing against different competition for forwards (although it looks like Oloffson-Eichel-Reinhart attracted the opponent's best players slightly more often).  Those two lines also received the most zone start bias, defensively and offensively, respectively.  The other lines either got mixed usage over the season or weren't biased at all.  If RK runs it the same way again, expect Cozens in at middle-six wing with not much competition sheltering and probably not a whole lot of zone start bias either.

Agree with most of this - Krueger will have to alter his usage, though, if we don't acquire a Larsson-like defensive whiz. 

Cozens at "4C" or "4RW" (which is usually the THIRD line listed in a lineup, as people tend to list the "Checking" line last) is where I'd have Cozens, like you mention. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Thorny

[Andrew Amerk]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

He shouldn't be penciled into the top 6, regardless, Lance Lysowski. 

How much has Krueger seen Cozens play first hand? Shouldn't be entering into the season with pre-conceived notions. 

I'd be fine with Cozens starting on the wing if that's what's best for him. Hopefully on the 3rd line, in a sheltered offensive role. We should be bringing in a top-6 capable wing. 

Between Duclair, And Then I See You, Toffoli, and whoever else - seems like there are a lot of options to look at. 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Between Duclair, And Then I See You, Toffoli, and whoever else - seems like there are a lot of options to look at. 

There's one other guy I know of.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Brawndo said:

It worked for Kirby Dach in Chicago last year 

Dach started on the 4th line and his play got him moved up. Predetermining moving him up without him playing is what we did with Mitts. Wing is easier than center and it's the same thing we did with Sam after he failed at center when we first had him up. 

To me this says don't expect a RW via trade or free agency. They'll play Cozens with Staal and if Staal fits maybe extend him a little and then when he retires or fades totally Cozens slides over and the plan would be the best of the wingers from this draft take Cozens spot, presumably Quinn.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Perhaps implied and overlooked, but nonetheless equally important: Ralph Krueger thinks Dylan Cozens is ready to play in the NHL.

He should wait and see, right? lol

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said:

That, or they plan on relying heavily on cheap talent (regardless if they’re ready or not) to fill the roster in order to fit into their “budget.”

Meaning the Tages and Caseys and Wills and Dylans of the world MUST be ready no matter what. 

Right. There should be a little bit more talk about how Cozens is already being penciled in. That's a mistake, if that's what's happening. 

Yes, I definitely think he'll be NHL ready, but that's not the same thing. People seem pretty quick to not only have him in the line-up, but in a Top 6! role, as a rook. 

- - - 

We need to be very, very careful with his development. I ask the board at large, have you thought about where we'd be at if Cozens doesn't pan out? I know we hate thinking about it, but seriously, how do we look at the most important position in hockey if one single prospect doesn't pan out?

It's not like it's one non-pan-out from a tricky situation. We are one non-pan-out from a disaster. The system doesn't have any other centres, and we didn't draft any with second line potential. 

Cozens is still The Plan, as of now. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Thorny

[Andrew Amerk]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Right. There should be a little bit more talk about how Cozens is already being penciled in. That's a mistake, if that's what's happening. 

Yes, I definitely think he'll be NHL ready, but that's not the same thing. People seem pretty quick to not only have him in the line-up, but in a Top 6! role, as a rook. 

This has become a common theme for Sabres fans for a decade now when it comes to draft picks. Kassian, Grigorenko, Mitts, you name it.