Curtis Lazar Signs Two Year Extension with Sabres

[JohnC]

17 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

When constructing the roster, yes, he's a bottom 6 forward.

But once we get into the season, whatever works, works. If Lazar is that perfect complement to a Staal-Cozens combo or Staal-Skinner combo, so be it. We've seen a line fail as often as we've seen a line gel. Girgs was stapled to Eichel a couple seasons back with no real benefit to either. But in the past we've seen Crosby and Sheary be great together (particularly that one playoff run) to the extent that PIT traded back for Sheary, despite him being a 4th liner for PIT before JBot brought him here. And Bure put up 60 with Gino Odjick as his opposite winger. So while Bure might have scored more, it certainly didn't slow him down.

Lines need the flexibility to find what clicks. Heck, if Eichel scores 82 points this year with Lazar on his wing AND we make the playoffs, I won't complain that Lazar's out of place. Until he misses a gaping empty-net tap-in to clinch a series we end up losing, and then I lament Reino's placement with Skinner-Cozens. 'Til then, though, gotta let things shake out.

If Lazar becomes a full time second line player then this team is in trouble. That is not to argue against situationally playing him on the second line on limited occasions. I'm aware that Krueger likes to balance his lines but your top two lines should have scoring capabilities even when the situation calls for the top two lines to accentuate the defensive side of play. I don't see him enhancing that line's offensive role so much as inhibiting it.

I'm not criticizing Lazar as a player. There is a role for him. He's a grinder whose utility is best served on the lower lines. Putting aside Okposo's high salary there is a role for him on this team. It's certainly not on the top two lines. Again, that is not a criticism of him as a player so much as to where his talents are best utilized. You give the example of Eichel scoring 82 points with Lazar on his wing. I got a better example that would be more beneficial to the team: Skinner on his wing with him scoring 95-100 pts. 

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

30 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

When constructing the roster, yes, he's a bottom 6 forward.

But once we get into the season, whatever works, works. If Lazar is that perfect complement to a Staal-Cozens combo or Staal-Skinner combo, so be it. We've seen a line fail as often as we've seen a line gel. Girgs was stapled to Eichel a couple seasons back with no real benefit to either. But in the past we've seen Crosby and Sheary be great together (particularly that one playoff run) to the extent that PIT traded back for Sheary, despite him being a 4th liner for PIT before JBot brought him here. And Bure put up 60 with Gino Odjick as his opposite winger. So while Bure might have scored more, it certainly didn't slow him down.

Lines need the flexibility to find what clicks. Heck, if Eichel scores 82 points this year with Lazar on his wing AND we make the playoffs, I won't complain that Lazar's out of place. Until he misses a gaping empty-net tap-in to clinch a series we end up losing, and then I lament Reino's placement with Skinner-Cozens. 'Til then, though, gotta let things shake out.

Exactly.  There are usually one or two surprises during camp, and line-ups get juggled throughout the year.   This is a quality signing that provides Krueger some flexibility in the line-up vs having a one-dimensional player in a bottom 6 role.

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

9 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If Lazar becomes a full time second line player then this team is in trouble. That is not to argue against situationally playing him on the second line on limited occasions. I'm aware that Krueger likes to balance his lines but your top two lines should have scoring capabilities even when the situation calls for the top two lines to accentuate the defensive side of play. I don't see him enhancing that line's offensive role so much as inhibiting it.

I'm not criticizing Lazar as a player. There is a role for him. He's a grinder whose utility is best served on the lower lines. Putting aside Okposo's high salary there is a role for him on this team. It's certainly not on the top two lines. Again, that is not a criticism of him as a player so much as to where his talents are best utilized. You give the example of Eichel scoring 82 points with Lazar on his wing. I got a better example that would be more beneficial to the team: Skinner on his wing with him scoring 95-100 pts. 

I think we are all pretty close on this.  As a stand-alone move signing Lazar doesn't make or break this team.   

To some of us the jury is still out on Lazars ceiling and/or where he slots in to the line-up.   Depending on the overall team chemistry, it is possible he could play an effective 2nd line winger role on good Sabres team.  He's fast, creative, defensively responsible, gives'r hard, and comes cheap.  That might open up more money for a scoring 3rd line winger.  

Edited September 25, 2020 by SHAAAUGHT!!!

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

I think we are all pretty close on this.  As a stand-alone move signing Lazar doesn't make or break this team.   

To some of us the jury is still out on Lazars ceiling and/or where he slots in to the line-up.   Depending on the overall team chemistry, it is possible he could play an effective 2nd line winger role on good Sabres team. He's fast, creative, defensively responsible, gives'r hard, and comes cheap.  That might open up more money for a scoring 3rd line winger.  

I respectfully disagree with the assessment that he could be an effective 2nd line winger on a good Sabre team. As I said in my prior posts if he regularly plays as a second line winger then this roster has a dearth of talent and this team will be an inconsequential NHL team. There certainly is a role for this very earnest player. It shouldn't be on any of the top two lines. For too long this franchise has been playing players in roles higher than their talent level. The record reflects this mismatch. If you want to be a competitive team that has to stop. 

[Rasmus_]

Like the player, and I like that the term is exactly what it needed to be.  Extended since he played hard, but not showing him more than his role on the team.  Solid signing.  I like the little things Lazar brings to the table.  You also need to reward low level signings that bring stabilizing elements to the roster. 

[thewookie1]

Lazar’s Jury came back 3 years ago and gave him a 4th Line Forward decision with chance of Bot 6 Forward. He is a hard worker who I’m glad to have but unless he’s hot, I don’t want him playing anywhere above 4th line minutes.

[msw2112]

Every NHL team fields 4 lines and guys on the third line (to an extent) and the 4th line (without question) have to be high-energy guys.  Lazar is just that.  He may be a late bloomer and have potential as a middle-6 guy, but if he has hit his ceiling, he is still valuable in a bottom-6 role. Good signing. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Shoots right. 

13th forward or 4c if Larsson moves on (although I think he is 4c regardless as Larssons should be 3c). Good price, Adams thus far hasn't done anything ill advised. 

Yet!

[In The Buff]

Interesting footnote, but how many NHL teams can say they have a 4th line full of 1st round draft picks?

I imagine not many, but we can!

Just don't know if thats a good thing or a bad thing. It is an interesting observation tho imo.

[DarthEbriate]

18 minutes ago, In The Buff said:

Interesting footnote, but how many NHL teams can say they have a 4th line full of 1st round draft picks?

I imagine not many, but we can!

Just don't know if thats a good thing or a bad thing. It is an interesting observation tho imo.

We can also claim last year's team had these first rounders skating: Eichel, Reino, Frolik, Girgs, Lazar, Okposo, Skinner, Dahlin, Joker, and Risto.

[Thorny]

23 minutes ago, In The Buff said:

Interesting footnote, but how many NHL teams can say they have a 4th line full of 1st round draft picks?

I imagine not many, but we can!

Just don't know if thats a good thing or a bad thing. It is an interesting observation tho imo.

It's a nice feather in the cap I suppose, but something that sometimes goes unnoticed is just how much of the league is populated by 1st round picks. It's really not that uncommon because by far 1st round picks have the best shot at the NHL, generally, and obviously. 

The fact we have 3 second overall picks is kinda cool. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Thorny

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

If Lazar becomes a full time second line player then this team is in trouble. That is not to argue against situationally playing him on the second line on limited occasions. I'm aware that Krueger likes to balance his lines but your top two lines should have scoring capabilities even when the situation calls for the top two lines to accentuate the defensive side of play. I don't see him enhancing that line's offensive role so much as inhibiting it.

I'm not criticizing Lazar as a player. There is a role for him. He's a grinder whose utility is best served on the lower lines. Putting aside Okposo's high salary there is a role for him on this team. It's certainly not on the top two lines. Again, that is not a criticism of him as a player so much as to where his talents are best utilized. You give the example of Eichel scoring 82 points with Lazar on his wing. I got a better example that would be more beneficial to the team: Skinner on his wing with him scoring 95-100 pts. 

I'm still in agreement that Lazar pencils in as a bottom 6.

For the sake of argument, let's say Lazar becomes Sobotka this year, with just a bit more offense and also health. He drives the net, he works the boards. And now instead of MoJo, it's the Skinner-and-Staal show. Skinner was on fire to start last season, until Sobotka got hurt. If Skinner-Staal-Lazar gets Skinner to his expected 30 goals and Staal to 60 points (And Eichel's line does what they do), that's the 2nd line. If we win, anybody can play with anybody. And if it allows a third line to feature some more scoring threat while on the ice in favorable scenarios, all the better.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

I'm still in agreement that Lazar pencils in as a bottom 6.

For the sake of argument, let's say Lazar becomes Sobotka this year, with just a bit more offense and also health. He drives the net, he works the boards. And now instead of MoJo, it's the Skinner-and-Staal show. Skinner was on fire to start last season, until Sobotka got hurt. If Skinner-Staal-Lazar gets Skinner to his expected 30 goals and Staal to 60 points (And Eichel's line does what they do), that's the 2nd line. If we win, anybody can play with anybody. And if it allows a third line to feature some more scoring threat while on the ice in favorable scenarios, all the better.

There is no need to contort yourself into the "what if" pretzel. My response is still an unequivocal no on Lazar playing on the second-line. If we can't do better than that then its time to put your hands up and yell that you give up. ☠️

[Zamboni]

Yea, I don’t ever want Lazar sniffing the top 6. UNLESS there are so many injuries that you are forced to do it. I’d rather see him effective on the bottom 6, than neutered on the top 6. I hope he can get more than 25 points this season. No matter what line he ends up being on. 

[Andrew Amerk]

3 hours ago, Sabre fan said:

If ever we need proof that teams make mistakes drafting (including the first round) Curtis is it. Having said that, he was the captain I believe of that amazing Canadian team that was loaded with talent and he has a ton of upside and I am tired of the same old lineup; no offense to Larson or Girgonson or Okoposo but we really need some fresh faces and a fresh mentality and focus. Curtis is a great start (along with Stall which was en excellent move). Give new GMKA two thumbs up so far! Keep it going!!!

 

[nfreeman]

 

4 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

When constructing the roster, yes, he's a bottom 6 forward.

But once we get into the season, whatever works, works. If Lazar is that perfect complement to a Staal-Cozens combo or Staal-Skinner combo, so be it. We've seen a line fail as often as we've seen a line gel. Girgs was stapled to Eichel a couple seasons back with no real benefit to either. But in the past we've seen Crosby and Sheary be great together (particularly that one playoff run) to the extent that PIT traded back for Sheary, despite him being a 4th liner for PIT before JBot brought him here. And Bure put up 60 with Gino Odjick as his opposite winger. So while Bure might have scored more, it certainly didn't slow him down.

Lines need the flexibility to find what clicks. Heck, if Eichel scores 82 points this year with Lazar on his wing AND we make the playoffs, I won't complain that Lazar's out of place. Until he misses a gaping empty-net tap-in to clinch a series we end up losing, and then I lament Reino's placement with Skinner-Cozens. 'Til then, though, gotta let things shake out.

Darthie, you know I luv ya, but this is like when a certain poster whose name rhymes with "shmiger" was arguing that Robyn Regehr might get power play time.

[kas23]

If Lazar wants to blow up and start scoring a bunch of goals on the 4th line, you then don’t move him to the 2nd line. You keep the chemistry going on his line, praise the Almighty you’re getting great 4th line production, and maybe increase their minutes and situations. 

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

There is no need to contort yourself into the "what if" pretzel. My response is still an unequivocal no on Lazar playing on the second-line. If we can't do better than that then its time to put your hands up and yell that you give up. ☠️

Contortion is fun!

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Darthie, you know I luv ya, but this is like when a certain poster whose name rhymes with "shmiger" was arguing that Robyn Regehr might get power play time.

Again, I don't say we line Lazar up with Staal on paper to start, just that lines have a habit of looking quizzical at times. Rather, if we end up with 3 lines we can roll, or even 4 lines, I don't care who plays where or how many minutes they play if we win. I mean, if Eichel ends up benched and Lazar centers the top line, I'm good if we win the Cup.

[JohnC]

Just now, DarthEbriate said:

Contortion is fun!

 

Not if you have a bulky back, a fat assss and a lumpy tummy. 🤡

[Huckleberry]

***** it I'm drunk, and 13th forward and up good signing at 800k.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Not if you have a bulky back, a fat assss and a lumpy tummy. 🤡

And a lightsaber in your hand...ouch!!

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

12 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Again, I don't say we line Lazar up with Staal on paper to start, just that lines have a habit of looking quizzical at times. Rather, if we end up with 3 lines we can roll, or even 4 lines, I don't care who plays where or how many minutes they play if we win. I mean, if Eichel ends up benched and Lazar centers the top line, I'm good if we win the Cup.

I get it man; Sbotoka was a perfect example.  On paper he should not have been that effective in a second line role, but they were getting things done those 2 weeks where Skinner - Mojo - and Sbotoka were all healthy.  We need bottom 6 guys like Lazar that provide flexibility when injuries happen or lines need to be mixed up.  Vesey and Frolik were not the type of players that can help with that, Lazar does. 

 

 

 

[bob_sauve28]

5 goals in less than half a season on the team. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if while playing more he gets somewhere between 15-20 goals. Give him more responsibility and see if he rises to the occasion. 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, bob_sauve28 said:

5 goals in less than half a season on the team. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if while playing more he gets somewhere between 15-20 goals. Give him more responsibility and see if he rises to the occasion. 

I would like nothing better than for you to be right, but he's scored 20 goals in his entire NHL career — 280 games.

He had one 20-goal season in the minors, but his second highest total as a pro is 6. He's smart and determined enough to get chances, but he just doesn't have the hands o finish.

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I would like nothing better than for you to be right, but he's scored 20 goals in his entire NHL career — 280 games.

He had one 20-goal season in the minors, but his second highest total as a pro is 6. He's smart and determined enough to get chances, but he just doesn't have the hands o finish.

As you seem to suggest Lazar is a utility player. There certainly is a role for that type of player. His signing to a reasonable contract is a good move but it is not an influential move. That's what I will be looking for as the offseason advances with the conclusion of the playoffs and the approaching of the draft.