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Scouts quick take on Dylan Cozens


Xzy89c

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4 minutes ago, Xzy89c said:

u r comparing apples and oranges.  

Go with your definitions.  Find a scout to argue with.  You will talk to their back as they walk away.

Taro brought up the QB thing, so I just went with it.

Its fine.  It’s just a pet peeve of mine.  I am sure that most scouts would dismiss my opinion.  It’s the lexicon that they use and it works for them, but it’s also not at all intuitive or logical.  I honestly think that it is just carryover from a much smaller league.  They probably just kind of kept characterizing player quality using the same terms.  I think it is out of date.

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7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Except a guy like Briere was a true 1C even though he definitely wasn't elite.  And, even with 2006 Briere included there were well less than 30 1C's back then.

This isn’t what everyone keeps telling me though.  I keep hearing that only the 10-12 elite C’s in the league are 1Cs.

Let me ask this then, and I do it in the heart of friendly discussion, really, how can I tell if a player is 1C quality?  How many 1Cs are there in the league right now?

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44 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Funnier version of this: I remember there were several hockey sites in 2005-6 who were incredulous and disgusted that Buffalo's "pond-hockey pansies" (that's a direct quote from a very reputable site) could win so consistently without a true #1 goaltender, a decent top-6 centre, or a great defence.  In this argument: Miller, Biron, and Noronen were considered sub-standard back-ups; the defence was considered adequate; Briere was a low-end 2C while Connolly was a passable 3C and Drury was an overpaid 3C.  The writing team concluded that the NHL had so distorted the game that even though "Lindy Ruff could get blood from stone", the Sabres were bad for hockey and proof that the league "encouraged figure skaters, not hockey players."

I should note that I still go to the site regularly as its Admins are very good analysts and ferret out better-founded rumours.

And in the same vein, Peca, Barnes, Brown, and Holzinger-to-Gratton (oh! and Hasek and the rest of the '98-'01 squads) would also like a word with you.

8 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

I bet Staal doesn’t eclipse 50 pts

Threepio! What kind of talk is that?  It's the offseason... where's the hope and hype?

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3 minutes ago, Curt said:

This isn’t what everyone keeps telling me though.  I keep hearing that only the 10-12 elite C’s in the league are 1Cs.

Let me ask this then, and I do it in the heart of friendly discussion, really, how can I tell if a player is 1C quality?  How many 1Cs are there in the league right now?

In a few hours, we could be down to just 2. 🍺

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3 minutes ago, Curt said:

This isn’t what everyone keeps telling me though.  I keep hearing that only the 10-12 elite C’s in the league are 1Cs.

Let me ask this then, and I do it in the heart of friendly discussion, really, how can I tell if a player is 1C quality?  How many 1Cs are there in the league right now?

It's like a Brees - Flacco - Keenum thing. 

When someone says true starting QB they mean Brees or Flacco and not Keenum even though he's been a starter. 

But only Brees would be considered elite. Unless you ask Flacco. 

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Just now, Thorny said:

It's like a Brees - Flacco - Keenum thing. 

When someone says true starting QB they mean Brees or Flacco and not Keenum even though he's been a starter. 

But only Brees would be considered elite. Unless you ask Flacco. 

Are Brees and Flacco still good, who is Keenum.  I don’t know fooseball.

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I too have been cautious on the Cozens bandwagon. I wanted Krebs at 7.

I still see Cozens’ puck handling and passing skills as potential weaknesses (but fixable), but he had a hell of a D+1, so I’m starting to believe. 
 

I still want his handling to not mirror past mistakes his first season(ie he earns ice, not Mittelrenko’d it...I mean given it)

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1 minute ago, Gabrielor said:

I too have been cautious on the Cozens bandwagon. I wanted Krebs at 7.

I still see Cozens puck handling and passing skills as potential weaknesses (but fixable), but he had a hell of a D+1, so I’m starting to believe. 
 

I still want his handle to be careful his first season(ie he earns ice, not Mittelrenko’d it...I mean given it)

This is interesting. I've always seen him described as, while not an elite playmaker or anything, being a pretty good passer.

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15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This is interesting. I've always seen him described as, while not an elite playmaker or anything, being a pretty good passer.

It was rough D year, and when I saw him live in camp. Puck handling and passing stood out as shortcomings.

 

I make no claims on D+1 and whether or not it improved, as I watched 0 Hurricane games the past season.

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3 hours ago, Curt said:

This isn’t what everyone keeps telling me though.  I keep hearing that only the 10-12 elite C’s in the league are 1Cs.

Let me ask this then, and I do it in the heart of friendly discussion, really, how can I tell if a player is 1C quality?  How many 1Cs are there in the league right now?

Don't know the entire league as well as had in the past, so hard to say how many 1C's there are.  Would guess 15 as came up w/ 11 ottomh.

The reason I'd included the old Briere though only a true homer would've called him elite was if ever the Sabres were down by a goal in the 3rd FULLY expected him to either net the tying goal (and the eventual winner) or set them up.  He had the special factor that  you knew would come through.  That sceams #1 IMHO.

Hope that helps w/out going through a whole dissertation on the subject.

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6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Don't know the entire league as well as had in the past, so hard to say how many 1C's there are.  Would guess 15 as came up w/ 11 ottomh.

The reason I'd included the old Briere though only a true homer would've called him elite was if ever the Sabres were down by a goal in the 3rd FULLY expected him to either net the tying goal (and the eventual winner) or set them up.  He had the special factor that  you knew would come through.  That sceams #1 IMHO.

Hope that helps w/out going through a whole dissertation on the subject.

Got it.  1Cs are elite C’s, or very good C’s who are clutch for your favorite team.  😁

I challenge the board to tell me, who are the #1Cs in the league?  And/Or, What makes a player qualify as a #1C?  Because I guess I just don’t know.

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10 hours ago, Xzy89c said:

Spoke to fiend who is a senior amateur scout for NHL team:

His take on Cozens is he is good player with definite chance to be a good second line center in the league.  He is big, good skills, very good skater, and can make plays at top speed.  

I have been very hesitant to get on Dylan bandwagon, but was happy to hear this.

I know I caused a major tangent.  It wasn’t personal, but I acknowledge that it probably did take away a little from your thread.  I do want to take a second to say thank you for bringing this to the board.  We/I do value people who hear directly from interesting sources “on the inside” and take the time to share it here.

I am glad that your scout friend thinks so highly of Cozens.  It echoes what most scouting sources have been saying, so it’s encouraging.

When he was drafted, I had some concerns about his ultimate upside as a playmaker, and even wondered if he may end up being better suited as a RW.  He is more a straight ahead, direct player than creative playmaker.  I think he has improved as a playmaker/passer a little, though he probably will always be a bit more of a direct, shoot first guy.

Cozens is definitely big, very good skater, plays 200 ft game, high compete, very good shot.  Passing/playmaking I still think are the question marks.  Will they be just ok, good, or very good?

Either way, the total package is looking good.

Edited by Curt
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On 9/17/2020 at 12:40 PM, Xzy89c said:

Spoke to fiend who is a senior amateur scout for NHL team:

His take on Cozens is he is good player with definite chance to be a good second line center in the league.  He is big, good skills, very good skater, and can make plays at top speed.  

I have been very hesitant to get on Dylan bandwagon, but was happy to hear this.

FYI: there are only 10-15 true first line centers in the league.  When the scout says he could be a good second line center that is a big compliment.  Like saying a pitcher could be a number two starter.  There are only 5-10 true number one starters in baseball.  The aces.

Second line centers can play in any situation, and will be among top 20% scorers depending on PP time.

It's hard to trust a fiend. 

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On 9/17/2020 at 11:01 PM, Curt said:

I know I caused a major tangent.  It wasn’t personal, but I acknowledge that it probably did take away a little from your thread.  I do want to take a second to say thank you for bringing this to the board.  We/I do value people who hear directly from interesting sources “on the inside” and take the time to share it here.

I am glad that your scout friend thinks so highly of Cozens.  It echoes what most scouting sources have been saying, so it’s encouraging.

When he was drafted, I had some concerns about his ultimate upside as a playmaker, and even wondered if he may end up being better suited as a RW.  He is more a straight ahead, direct player than creative playmaker.  I think he has improved as a playmaker/passer a little, though he probably will always be a bit more of a direct, shoot first guy.

Cozens is definitely big, very good skater, plays 200 ft game, high compete, very good shot.  Passing/playmaking I still think are the question marks.  Will they be just ok, good, or very good?

Either way, the total package is looking good.

You know all this, yet don't know what a 1C is or how many there are in the NHL?  I guess I just don't believe, you don't think you know.

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8 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

You know all this, yet don't know what a 1C is or how many there are in the NHL?  I guess I just don't believe, you don't think you know.

I don’t know what others consider to be a 1C.  And as of yet, no one has taken up my question.

For example:  IMPO, if Cozens hits near his ceiling, 60+ pt, 2-way C who can play in any situation, I think that is a 1C.  It seems most disagree, and would call that a 2C.

So I ask, what are people’s yardsticks for being a 1C?

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