Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Brawndo

Sabres Acquire Center Eric Staal from Wild for Marcus Johansson

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'm sorta looking at it as Staal upgrades Mojo's forced role at 2C, Kahun upgrades ERod's role as the swing forward, and Tage fills Sheary's role as the middle-six offensive winger. (Personally, I think Tage will be an upgrade as well.)

That leaves the Zemgus, Larry, Vesey, Sobotka/Frolik and 13th forward (Casey/Lazar/Asplun) slots to address. (With Sam, VO, Skinner, Kyle and Jack carrying over)

Merging our outlooks - i've covered the bolded, that leaves 2 depth wingers (Vesey, Sobotka). I guess that's 2 injury guys/an injury guy and 14th forward. 

This is penciling Cozens in on my end, though. 

Edited by Thorny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'm sorta looking at it as Staal upgrades Mojo's forced role at 2C, Kahun upgrades ERod's role as the swing forward, and Tage fills Sheary's role as the middle-six offensive winger. (Personally, I think Tage will be an upgrade as well.)

That leaves the Zemgus, Larry, Vesey, Sobotka/Frolik and 13th forward (Casey/Lazar/Asplund) slots to address. (With Sam, VO, Skinner, Kyle and Jack carrying over)

Realizing now why this move feels so good.  Even if Vesey were thrown into the 3LW slot @Thorny & I were discussing, that lineup is better than this past year's roster w/ no other moves.  And really expect 2 more F moves, 1 D, & a goalie move to upgrade this lineup.

Edited by Taro T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Where are you getting $70-72MM?  The credible rumors are "internal budget."  $75MM meets that description just as easily as setting up up to $10MM below cap.

https://www.tsn.ca/seravalli-at-least-17-nhl-teams-have-reduced-pay-amid-covid-19-crunch-1.1522380

Quote

Sources say the Sabres are considering an internal salary cap in the low $70 million range; 

75-76 mill isn't in the low 70 mill range.  70-72 mill is.  

I'll be thrilled if we only cut to $76 mill, but everything I've read says lower.

Edited by GASabresIUFAN
  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Realizing now why this move feels so good.  Even if Vesey were thrown into the 3LW slot @Thorny & I were discussing, that lineup is better than this past year's roster w/ no other moves.  And really expect 2 more F moves, 1 D, & a goalie move to upgrade this lineup.

I'm  expecting at least one more, the Larsson hole. And I've mentioned I think it can be filled by the addition of a defensive C, or even a bonafide top 6 winger indirectly. 

I'd certainly like 2 forward adds - both of those pieces. 

We need that LHD definitely (hey even a hockey trade is open to us, now, having already addressed the 2C), and yup that backup goalie. 

So for me, that's 3 necessary moves, only one of which I'd term high-level crucial, and all of which should be easier to consummate in theory than the 2C addition Adams just pulled out his arse. 

Edited by Thorny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I'm  expecting at least one more, the Larsson hole. And I've mentioned I think it can be filled by the addition of a defensive C, or even a bonafide top 6 winger indirectly. 

I'd certainly like 2 forward adds - both of those pieces. 

We need that LHD definitely (hey even a hockey trade is open to us, now, having already addressed the 2C), and yup that backup goalie. 

So for me, that's 3 necessary moves, only one of which I'd term high-level crucial, and all of which should be easier to consummate in theory than the 2C addition Adams just pulled out his arse. 

I agree an improvement in the backup goalie and LHD would be great.  I just don't see the money for it unless we have move on from another bigger contract.  The most obvious are KO, Hutton, Miller and Risto, but who is taking KO and Hutton off our hands. 

I think a great place to save money is trading Montour's rights and Miller.  This would leave us with a top 4 D of Risto, Joker, Dahlin and McCabe.  This is a great starting point.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree an improvement in the backup goalie and LHD would be great.  I just don't see the money for it unless we have move on from another bigger contract.  The most obvious are KO, Hutton, Miller and Risto, but who is taking KO and Hutton off our hands. 

I think a great place to save money is trading Montour's rights and Miller.  This would leave us with a top 4 D of Risto, Joker, Dahlin and McCabe.  This is a great starting point.   

We can swap a RHD for a left in a hockey trade, no money considerations needed necessarily. 

Today it was revealed to us at large that, you aren't dreaming, centres *can* be brought IN, as opposed to just OUT.

Perhaps the sun will shine on a simple mitigation of D surplus in due time. A true wonder. 

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://www.tsn.ca/seravalli-at-least-17-nhl-teams-have-reduced-pay-amid-covid-19-crunch-1.1522380

75-76 mill isn't in the low 70 mill range.  70-72 mill is.  

I'll be thrilled if we only cut to $76 mill, but everything I've read says lower.

OK, see where you're getting it.  Thanks.

But "sources" saying the Sabres are "considering" an internal cap of "low $70's" when the entire pool of potential "sources" that are ACTUALLY still in the know have been reduced significantly comes across as clickbait to foster fear & loathing among the fans.  Especially right after the team was several $MM over the cap the previous year.  $74 or $75 seems extremely plausible.  Will believe $71 or $72 when we see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How?  If the internal cap is 70-72 mill as projected, we are tight up against that number without dumping another big cap number and still retaining our current RFAs.

We are at 47 mill with 10 players under contract.  That leaves 23-25 mill to re-sign Montour, Kahun, Reinhart, VO, Lazar, Thompson, and Ullmark and sign 5 other players.  That's about $2 mill per player.  Ullmark, Montour, Kahun, VO and Reinhart will all cost more then $2 mill.  Most of the RFAs also have arbitration rights.  Ullmark, Montour, Kahun, VO and Reinhart will probably cost 18 mill to retain.  

I guess you are right.  Just resigning the RFAs probably puts it at around $72M.  

With that being said, I expect a RD to be moved, which would open up some room.  

Also, I don’t expect them to actually come in as low as $72M.  One guy wrote one time that “sources” said the team was “considering” an internal cap in the “low 70’s range”.  That’s pretty soft on definites.  I’m going to require something with a little more substance before I take it as gospel.

Edited by Curt
  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Meh, doesn't move the needle for me. Decent depth 3/4 line signing I guess.

If KA addresses the 2nd and 3rd lines to the same degree as he just did the 4th, we'd be looking at a c spine of Eichel - McDavid - Scheifele - Staal

I, for one, am on board

Edited by Thorny
  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I don't think Asplund is even an NHL player. 

Neither is Mitts. We're counting on too much youth here. 

Just shows we still need a couple additions. A Mitts for Copp-like swap goes a long way. Or even just acquiring a guy like Copp. 

Or, a top 6 W, of course. 

At this point, no. 
 

I DO think Asplund at minimum will be a solid NHL 4th liner, and will make an excellent 4th line with Pekar someday. 
 

Mitts I don’t see panning out with us. At all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a the kind of hockey trade Bots and Murray could not make.  Staal is a much better player than Johansson, and cheaper, and has a Cup, and is a leader.   The Sabres are a better team by this move.  Impressive first trade for Adams.  Do it again.  
 

I made lots of trades like this.  

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

How did he pull this one off?!? 

Johannsson makes 1.5 million a year more!

age obviously. 

The upside, Staal is an actual center, has played with Skinner, good character guy, fits the hole and hopefully gives Cozens (or longshot Mitts) time to evolve into the 2C. Oh, and cheaper.

The downside, he's old as dirt and might be past it. Also, it might mean that's it for 2C for now. 

I see this as a one season deal nothing more. Adequate, maybe decent, but nothing to get overly excited about. Dealt at the deadline if we suck again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

This is a the kind of hockey trade Bots and Murray could not make.  Staal is a much better player than Johansson, and cheaper, and has a Cup, and is a leader.   The Sabres are a better team by this move.  Impressive first trade for Adams.  Do it again.  
 

I made lots of trades like this.  

I dunno if I'm totally sold on the whole leader thing. Minnesota is looking to change things and he was a guy they moved out. They are paying more money to a lesser hockey player at a less important position. Let's pump the brakes for a second and think about why that might be. Could he be a leader? Possibly. Clearly Minnesota didn't feel like he was a necessary piece of their room.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

I dunno if I'm totally sold on the whole leader thing. Minnesota is looking to change things and he was a guy they moved out. They are paying more money to a lesser hockey player at a less important position. Let's pump the brakes for a second and think about why that might be. Could he be a leader? Possibly. Clearly Minnesota didn't feel like he was a necessary piece of their room.

Been around long enough to see players thrive in one environment and not in another.  Minnesota is not the standard to measure him to.   Staal was a leader on his Cup winning team.  Adams knows him.  We have upgraded the center position and saved money at the same time. 
 

Now let’s move a defenseman and add another center.  

Edited by Pimlach
  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

age obviously. 

The upside, Staal is an actual center, has played with Skinner, good character guy, fits the hole and hopefully gives Cozens (or longshot Mitts) time to evolve into the 2C. Oh, and cheaper.

The downside, he's old as dirt and might be past it. Also, it might mean that's it for 2C for now. 

I see this as a one season deal nothing more. Adequate, maybe decent, but nothing to get overly excited about. Dealt at the deadline if we suck again. 

I find it exciting - in that it's a huge step forward in surround Eichel with even merely adequate talent, and I think Eichel has proven himself to the extent that, well, that's enough (to be a playoff team).

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I find it exciting - in that it's a huge step forward in surround Eichel with even merely adequate talent, and I think Eichel has proven himself to the extent that, well, that's enough (to be a playoff team).

We disagree in magnitude I guess. I see it as a small step not a huge one. If Staal was 30 it would be huger than huge. At 35 or 36 it's a hope and a wish. 

I guess it also means we're not so concerned with "fast" any more. 

Don't get me wrong, I like Staal, I'm just not sure he's got a lot left. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

We disagree in magnitude I guess. I see it as a small step not a huge one. If Staal was 30 it would be huger than huge. At 35 or 36 it's a hope and a wish. 

I guess it also means we're not so concerned with "fast" any more. 

Don't get me wrong, I like Staal, I'm just not sure he's got a lot left. 

What I mean is that, he represents ~ half of the total value of the additions I think the forward group need. I don't consider him a huge upgrade in talent, but I do consider him likely at this stage to fill a considerable portion of our need. In that sense, I consider it a huge addition. One more C addition (and really, Staal is very likely to be the better one) and I can enter into a season reasonably content with the state of the forward roster. 

It's all relative. That sort of progress to me is huge compared to what we have seen. 

Edited by Thorny
  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Been around long enough to see players thrive in one environment and not in another.  Minnesota is not the standard to measure him to.   Staal was a leader on his Cup winning team.  Adams knows him.  We have upgraded the center position and saved money at the same time. 
 

Now let’s move a defenseman and add another center.  

We will see. Buffalo hasnt exactly been a nurturing environment for success either. A lot is going to depend on how much Staal actually wants to play hockey and how much he just wants to make a couple million dollars. And the, he played with Adams, thing doesn't do a lot for me. At this point they need to show me. I'm not taking anything at face value. Staal shouldn't be happy today. He just got traded to the worst franchise in recent history. I'd be very surprised if he weren't having a tough time getting to sleep tonight mulling over his actual desire to play hockey.

And yes I also want another center.

Put it this way, I'm from Buffalo and I were traded to Buffalo tomorrow I'd be pretty annoyed and seriously considering my options.

If my son were drafted by the Sabres I would advise him not to sign. Their player development has been that bad.

Edited by Let's Go B-Lo
  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://www.tsn.ca/seravalli-at-least-17-nhl-teams-have-reduced-pay-amid-covid-19-crunch-1.1522380

75-76 mill isn't in the low 70 mill range.  70-72 mill is.  

I'll be thrilled if we only cut to $76 mill, but everything I've read says lower.

Cap and salary are 2 completely different things though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://www.tsn.ca/seravalli-at-least-17-nhl-teams-have-reduced-pay-amid-covid-19-crunch-1.1522380

75-76 mill isn't in the low 70 mill range.  70-72 mill is.  

I'll be thrilled if we only cut to $76 mill, but everything I've read says lower.

 

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

OK, see where you're getting it.  Thanks.

But "sources" saying the Sabres are "considering" an internal cap of "low $70's" when the entire pool of potential "sources" that are ACTUALLY still in the know have been reduced significantly comes across as clickbait to foster fear & loathing among the fans.  Especially right after the team was several $MM over the cap the previous year.  $74 or $75 seems extremely plausible.  Will believe $71 or $72 when we see it.

I have no doubt that an NHL source told Seravelli that. I would suspect that source was not from inside the Sabres organization, and likely was repeating chatter being generated across the industry in the wake of the June bloodletting in Buffalo.

Every single story I read on this was piggybacking Seravelli's report. Have you seen anyone reporting this independently? Chad D said his source(s) say expect higher.

 

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Merging our outlooks - i've covered the bolded, that leaves 2 depth wingers (Vesey, Sobotka). I guess that's 2 injury guys/an injury guy and 14th forward. 

This is penciling Cozens in on my end, though. 

I think Cozens gets the Vesey slot, but I don't think the Sabres should be handing that to him. I sign a cheap vet that he (and Mittelstadt, Asplund and Lazar) will have to beat out to make the team. (Tage gets a spot because of waivers).

I think the team's most preferred target for the Sobotka slot would be a veteran defensively elite, offensively fine Craig Ramsey/Jere Lehtonen type with veteran cred and a dose of sandpaper.

Edited by dudacek
  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think they should but I still kinda think they are going to. My breakdown still needed those 2 extra forward spots filled, so if one or both are actually players he has to beat out, all the better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://www.tsn.ca/seravalli-at-least-17-nhl-teams-have-reduced-pay-amid-covid-19-crunch-1.1522380

75-76 mill isn't in the low 70 mill range.  70-72 mill is.  

I'll be thrilled if we only cut to $76 mill, but everything I've read says lower.

Is a billionaire owner seriously quibbling over $5-$10million dollars for his pet Sabres team?

Doesnt seem to be an issue with the Bills. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

I have no doubt that an NHL source told Seravelli that. I would suspect that source was not from inside the Sabres organization, and likely was repeating chatter being generated across the industry in the wake of the June bloodletting in Buffalo.

Every single story I read on this was piggybacking Seravelli's report. Have you seen anyone reporting this independently?

 

I think Cozens gets the Vesey slot, but I don't think the Sabres should be handing that to him. I sign a cheap vet that he (and Mittelstadt, Asplund and Lazar) will have to beat out to make the team. (Tage gets a spot because of waivers).

I think the team's most preferred target for the Sobotka slot would be a veteran defensively elite, offensive fine Craig Ramsey/Jere Lehtonen type with veteran cred and a dose of sandpaper.

Replace Sobotka with a Selke Trophy type of player.  Sure,  but who and for how much.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...