Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
LGR4GM

Casey Mittelstadt, what should we make of him

Recommended Posts

On 8/18/2020 at 3:58 PM, Let's Go B-Lo said:

'Murican, playing at a 'Murican college not a Canadian playing in the CHL

No, it was his skill set...multiple outlets had him as a top-5 talent in that draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, OhMyDahlin said:

No, it was his skill set...multiple outlets had him as a top-5 talent in that draft.

I think his consensus ranking was 5. Casey got a big bump from the U18 tourney and learning that was a major reason I evaluate scouts and prospects different now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Why tamper with moving Reinhart away from the Jack line where he has helped to establish a high yield first line? I like Reinhart a lot. He is one of the few consistent scoring threats on this team and one of the best instinctive passers we have. The primary reason I want him to remain on the first line is I don't consider him the type of player who can drive a line. So if he is one of the more productive scorers on the Jack line then why put him in a position to be less successful?

If the second line is going to be upgraded it will have to be done by bringing in one or two players from the market. Diluting the first line by moving Reinhart off of it would not in my estimation be a good move. 

Its fairly dependent on what the solution is at 2C.  But i don't think putting cozens on line 3 with thompson and johannson is going to be very good for literally any of them.  

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Its fairly dependent on what the solution is at 2C.  But i don't think putting cozens on line 3 with thompson and johannson is going to be very good for literally any of them.  

You make a good point about Cozens and the 2C position. Putting him on a second line with an added center (as you noted) would be a better alternative than taking Reinhart off of the first line in my opinion. At the end of the abbreviated season Krueger put together a line of KahunJohansson/Olofsson. I thought they blended in well as an effective line. Assuming that a player or two can be brought in to staff the second line this reconstituted Johansson line would make for a more contributing third line. What is apparent is that pieces need to be brought in order to figure out the puzzle of putting together properly fitting lines

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I think his consensus ranking was 5. Casey got a big bump from the U18 tourney and learning that was a major reason I evaluate scouts and prospects different now. 

Is that essentially putting much less emphasis on WJC results?  Or the scouts that weight it heavily I suppose. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, inkman said:

Is that essentially putting much less emphasis on WJC results?  Or the scouts that weight it heavily I suppose. 

Both. And it isn't just that. There are a bunch of short tourneys and if you pop at any of them the scouts slobber all over year for the year. It makes no sense other than they think because you are playing with your peers and the best of your age etc... it is faulty logic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You make a good point about Cozens and the 2C position. Putting him on a second line with an added center (as you noted) would be a better alternative than taking Reinhart off of the first line in my opinion. At the end of the abbreviated season Krueger put together a line of KahunJohansson/Olofsson. I thought they blended in well as an effective line. Assuming that a player or two can be brought in to staff the second line this reconstituted Johansson line would make for a more contributing third line. What is apparent is that pieces need to be brought in order to figure out the puzzle of putting together properly fitting lines

I'm open to anything at this point.  There needs to be at least 4 forwards that are comfortable killing penalties though.  If Girgs/Larsson don't both return that leaves a big gaping hole there.  Asplund is probably the only potential call-up that fits in that role, maybe you could include lazar there.  But if your line 3 is kahun/johansson/olofsson - any winger/2C that is brought in most likely needs to be a 2 way player.  

You could let cozens play center and just try and load that line.  Grab wingers to fill out the rest of the roster maybe.  I think we're all nervous to do that since mittelstadt failed so spectacularly, and the definition of insanity... but if you can't find a center at the very least move a dman and go after some wingers.  

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Both. And it isn't just that. There are a bunch of short tourneys and if you pop at any of them the scouts slobber all over year for the year. It makes no sense other than they think because you are playing with your peers and the best of your age etc... it is faulty logic. 

I think the concern when you look at something like this stat sheet - http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Casey-Mittelstadt

Just - nothing there wows me.  He had a couple nice tournaments and then played alright at Minnesota.  He didn't like jump off the page stat wise at minnesota either.  Why did we even sign him after that season?  

Edited by Drag0nDan
  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I think the concern when you look at something like this stat sheet - http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Casey-Mittelstadt

Just - nothing there wows me.  He had a couple nice tournaments and then played alright at Minnesota.  He didn't like jump off the page stat wise at minnesota either.  Why did we even sign him after that season?  

I have no idea. He should have gone back to college for at least 1 year and spent another 1-2 years in the AHL. It was one of the dumbest development paths I have ever witnessed. 

 

As to the development stuff, again I was very busy leading up to the 2017 draft and didn't do a ton with it. Looking back now is cheating but you are 100% right that those stats don't standout. I also don't think we have a good reason why they don't. At least Raymond has the excuse of playing against men and only get 10mins a game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I have no idea. He should have gone back to college for at least 1 year and spent another 1-2 years in the AHL. It was one of the dumbest development paths I have ever witnessed. 

 

As to the development stuff, again I was very busy leading up to the 2017 draft and didn't do a ton with it. Looking back now is cheating but you are 100% right that those stats don't standout. I also don't think we have a good reason why they don't. At least Raymond has the excuse of playing against men and only get 10mins a game. 

Like there was a progression in his high school stats from sophomore to senior year - but its not as if he was that much more dominant than he was as a sophomore.  It really is just the tournaments where his stats look pretty great.  But as much as its a jump in competition, its also a jump in improved linemates etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Like there was a progression in his high school stats from sophomore to senior year - but its not as if he was that much more dominant than he was as a sophomore.  It really is just the tournaments where his stats look pretty great.  But as much as its a jump in competition, its also a jump in improved linemates etc.

Mitts plateaued. It is something scouts talk about with Rossi but I just don't see it because the guy works so hard on the ice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Mitts plateaued. It is something scouts talk about with Rossi but I just don't see it because the guy works so hard on the ice.

Good let him drop to us then ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Mitts plateaued. It is something scouts talk about with Rossi but I just don't see it because the guy works so hard on the ice.

Right - at this point can we salvage him? 

If his stocks at an all time low how much value does he have?  If were moving Risto/Montour + a prospect - is he more valuable than a Ruotsalainen or Johnson?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

I think the concern when you look at something like this stat sheet - http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Casey-Mittelstadt

Just - nothing there wows me.  He had a couple nice tournaments and then played alright at Minnesota.  He didn't like jump off the page stat wise at minnesota either.  Why did we even sign him after that season?  

My theory is either Botts was hoping he could take over RORs spot in stride or that Mitts agent threatened that without a signing that he’d just wait until he could flee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

My theory is either Botts was hoping he could take over RORs spot in stride or that Mitts agent threatened that without a signing that he’d just wait until he could flee.

I've always thought this was a factor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

My theory is either Botts was hoping he could take over RORs spot in stride or that Mitts agent threatened that without a signing that he’d just wait until he could flee.

 

21 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

I've always thought this was a factor.

Considering we'd heard/ read rumblings that Botterill felt that should the Sabres land Dahlin that he "could tear the team down" again to change the dynamics of the team, believe that though his agent was no doubt non-credibly threatening that (non-credible because there was no way Mittelstadt was staying in college for 4 years moving his ELC 4 years into the future) Botterill wouldn't have seen it as a threat, but had a reason for wanting to see Mitts in Buffalo for a few games at the end of '18.

Seeing Mitts in the NHL, he could decide how long he'd likely need the interim 2C to hold down that spot (1 season or 2) prior to having Mitts take over at 2C.  He miscalculated that and miscalculated that Berglund could be the 2C at all.  But really doubt going back into the draft in 3 more years factored into the thought process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

My theory is either Botts was hoping he could take over RORs spot in stride or that Mitts agent threatened that without a signing that he’d just wait until he could flee.

 

36 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

I've always thought this was a factor.

It’s possible, but 3 years is a long time to wait.  Also means Botterill is not a good negotiator.  If a prospect really pulled something like that, trade him.

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

My theory is either Botts was hoping he could take over RORs spot in stride or that Mitts agent threatened that without a signing that he’d just wait until he could flee.

That's one terrible agent then, who completely messed up Mitt's career.

It's not like rushing him into Buffalo would gain anything financially, and if he wasn't ready (like what happened), he could crater his value and ensure that his 2nd contract may not even be 7 digits a year (again, like what happened).

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Gabrielor said:

That's one terrible agent then, who completely messed up Mitt's career.

It's not like rushing him into Buffalo would gain anything financially, and if he wasn't ready (like what happened), he could crater his value and ensure that his 2nd contract may not even be 7 digits a year (again, like what happened).

In the short term it would.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

What about cozens with jack?  Lets you move reinhart down to line 2 to help drive that line with whomever we get as a 2C.  

If Cozens is at all ready he should play on the 3rd and 4th line and then eventually add some PP time, much the same thing Chicago did with Dach. No way should he be thrown to high expectations on the top line day 1. We've ruined enough kids already. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

Right - at this point can we salvage him? 

If his stocks at an all time low how much value does he have?  If were moving Risto/Montour + a prospect - is he more valuable than a Ruotsalainen or Johnson?

Personally I think at this point it is up to Mitts salvaging himself. He needs to realize he isn't good enough and put in the work and put in the time in the AHL to get better. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

I've always thought this was a factor.

I would have called that bluff. 

Also how funny if true because Botterill placed so much emphasis on taking USHL, NCAA guys for their development window. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

If Cozens is at all ready he should play on the 3rd and 4th line and then eventually add some PP time, much the same thing Chicago did with Dach. No way should he be thrown to high expectations on the top line day 1. We've ruined enough kids already. 

Plenty of 18-19 year olds have had excellent seasons (https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/player-age/18-year-old-nhl-forwards.html).  It's an if hes ready type of thing - it isn't an end all be all.  If he looks good it shouldn't be out of the question.  

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Selected D3 seasons from high picks:

  • Casey Mittelstadt (8, 2017) 9 points 31 games
  • Dylan Strome (3, 2015) 9 points 21 games
  • Dennis Gurianov (12, 2015) AHL
  • Kevin Fiala (11, 2014) 16 points 54 games
  • Jakub Vrana (13, 2014) 6 points 21 games
  • Anthony Mantha (20, 2013) 3 points 10 games
  • Radek Faksa (13, 2012) AHL
  • Ryan Strome (5, 2011) 18 points 37 games
  • J.T. Miller (15, 2011) 6 points 30 games
  • Ryan Johansen (4, 2010) 12 points 40 games
  • Nino Neiderreiter (5, 2010) AHL
  • Brett Connolly (6, 2010) 1 point 5 games
  •  Mikael Granlund (9, 2010) 8 points, 27 games
  • Jaden Schwartz (14, 2010) 13 points 45 games
  • Vladimir Tarasenko (16, 2010) 19 points 38 games

It’s not exactly rare for a touted guy to have a D3 season like Casey’s and still turn into a decent NHL player. He’s been disappointing and frustrating, but the idea he has no value is bizarre to me.

 

 

Edited by dudacek
  • Like (+1) 1
  • Thanks (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...