Zamboni Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 This just tells me, a team at pick #8 has pretty much the same chance of a “hit” of getting a good NHLer who has a long productive career, as a “miss” who has a poor or short NHL career. Obviously the most recent 3-4 years don’t carry much weight, yet. 8th overall picks ... 2000 Nikita Alexeev 2001 Pascal Leclaire 2002 Pierre-Marc Bouchard 2003 Braydon Coburn 2004 Alexandre Picard 2005 Devin Setoguchi 2006 Peter Mueller 2007 Zach Hamill 2008 Mikkel Bødker 2009 Scott Glennie 2010 Alexander Burmistrov 2011 Sean Couturier 2012 Derrick Pouliot 2013 Rasmus Ristolainen 2014 William Nylander 2015 Zach Werenski 2016 Alexander Nylander 2017 Casey Mittelstadt 2018 Adam Boqvist 2019 Philip Broberg a lot of teams with a lot of misses.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, TheCerebral1 said: If Lundell is the least exciting pick to you, for me it's Sanderson and it's not even close. If we take him 8th overall, which is easily 10 spots too early, I will lose my mind. Rossi is not falling, he's this years Cole Caufield (who slipped to what 7th). I prefer of this list: Lundell, Raymond, Perfetti, Askarov, Quinn, Jarvis, Hotlz. I don’t get the comparison at all. They don’t play the same position, have a similar style, or have a similar statistical profile. Also, Caufield DID slide to 15th, so................ Edited August 11, 2020 by Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 ^ That's why they should trade the pick to some team that thinks it's smarter than it actually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Zamboni said: This just tells me, a team at pick #8 has pretty much the same chance of a “hit” of getting a good NHLer who has a long productive career, as a “miss” who has a poor or short NHL career. Obviously the most recent 3-4 years don’t carry much weight, yet. 8th overall picks ... 2000 Nikita Alexeev 2001 Pascal Leclaire 2002 Pierre-Marc Bouchard 2003 Braydon Coburn 2004 Alexandre Picard 2005 Devin Setoguchi 2006 Peter Mueller 2007 Zach Hamill 2008 Mikkel Bødker 2009 Scott Glennie 2010 Alexander Burmistrov 2011 Sean Couturier 2012 Derrick Pouliot 2013 Rasmus Ristolainen 2014 William Nylander 2015 Zach Werenski 2016 Alexander Nylander 2017 Casey Mittelstadt 2018 Adam Boqvist 2019 Philip Broberg a lot of teams with a lot of misses.... Holy cow! From 2000-2009 what a bunch of crap ranging from busts to mediocre NHL players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Zamboni said: This just tells me, a team at pick #8 has pretty much the same chance of a “hit” of getting a good NHLer who has a long productive career, as a “miss” who has a poor or short NHL career. Obviously the most recent 3-4 years don’t carry much weight, yet. 2010 Alexander Burmistrov 2011 Sean Couturier 2012 Derrick Pouliot 2013 Rasmus Ristolainen 2014 William Nylander 2015 Zach Werenski 2016 Alexander Nylander 2017 Casey Mittelstadt 2018 Adam Boqvist 2019 Philip Broberg a lot of teams with a lot of misses.... TBF the Sabres are responsible for 30% of those picks in the last decade, and we already know we suck Edited August 11, 2020 by WildCard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted August 11, 2020 Report Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Zamboni said: This just tells me, a team at pick #8 has pretty much the same chance of a “hit” of getting a good NHLer who has a long productive career, as a “miss” who has a poor or short NHL career. Obviously the most recent 3-4 years don’t carry much weight, yet. 8th overall picks ... 2000 Nikita Alexeev 2001 Pascal Leclaire 2002 Pierre-Marc Bouchard 2003 Braydon Coburn 2004 Alexandre Picard 2005 Devin Setoguchi 2006 Peter Mueller 2007 Zach Hamill 2008 Mikkel Bødker 2009 Scott Glennie 2010 Alexander Burmistrov 2011 Sean Couturier 2012 Derrick Pouliot 2013 Rasmus Ristolainen 2014 William Nylander 2015 Zach Werenski 2016 Alexander Nylander 2017 Casey Mittelstadt 2018 Adam Boqvist 2019 Philip Broberg a lot of teams with a lot of misses.... TRADE IT! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 5 hours ago, WildCard said: TBF the Sabres are responsible for 30% of those picks in the last decade, and we already know we suck If you think Ristolainen was a bad pick at 8, well, there's a lot of news upthread for you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 Who the hell is Scott Glennie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) On 8/10/2020 at 9:22 PM, LabattBlue said: The lottery is a joke. Always was, still is, and always will be. Just go back to worst team picks first...and if that team decides to tank(I mean the GM, not the players or coaches), then so be it. i fully agree with this. how many years has it been since the tank and the sabres are still horrible. tanking is not worth it. its not like the nba where 1 or 2 players will completely change a team. Edited August 12, 2020 by miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 Peter Griffin: "A 2C is just a 2C, but a #8 pick could be anything. It could even be a 2C! And you know how long we've wanted one of those!" 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 23 hours ago, WildCard said: TBF the Sabres are responsible for 30% of those picks in the last decade, and we already know we suck thats why you either make a real run to the playoffs or come last...drafting 8th sucks! Lucky this draft has a bonafide top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 5 hours ago, miles said: i fully agree with this. how many years has it been since the tank and the sabres are still horrible. tanking is not worth it. its not like the nba where 1 or 2 players will completely change a team. if you tank you have to be patient. Murray wasn't and traded away too many picks. Who knows where they'd be if they had stayed the course. couldn't be much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 On 8/11/2020 at 8:40 AM, LGR4GM said: I don't think that's true at all. I think there's a break at 9 or 10. You have it after what, Byfield Lafreniere Stutzle Drysdale Rossi Perfetti Raymond and Holtz? So drop off after 8, into the Sanderson/Lundell tier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Crusader1969 said: if you tank you have to be patient. Murray wasn't and traded away too many picks. Who knows where they'd be if they had stayed the course. couldn't be much worse. The narrative that’ll never die. Murray didn’t trade too many picks. Maybe he shouldn’t have traded a 1st for Lehner. We’d have a Colin White level player. Other than that, including a second in a deal for an elite two way player, and a late first that became Jack Roslovic in a deal for a 30 goal scorer is not only perfectly acceptable, but desirable. I’m much more interested in what “staying the course” with ROR and Lehner would have looked like than what staying the course with Colin White, Jack Roslovic, and JT Compher would have looked like. Edited August 13, 2020 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 17 minutes ago, Thorny said: The narrative that’ll never die. Murray didn’t trade too many picks. Maybe he shouldn’t have traded a 1st for Lehner. We’d have a Colin White level player. Other than that, including a second in a deal for an elite two way player, and a late first that became Jack Roslovic in a deal for a 30 goal scorer is not only perfectly acceptable, but desirable. I’m much more interested in what “staying the course” with ROR and Lehner would have looked like than what staying the course with Colin White, Jack Roslovic, and JT Compher would have looked like. I’d say the more correct notion would be Murray overpaid in his attempt to hasten the rebuild. 2 2nds for Fasching Myers, Stafford, a 1st, Lemuiex and Armia for Kane, Bogosian, and Kasdorf A 3rd for Vesey’s rights A 1st for Lehner and Legwand (capdump that turned out good) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: I’d say the more correct notion would be Murray overpaid in his attempt to hasten the rebuild. 2 2nds for Fasching Myers, Stafford, a 1st, Lemuiex and Armia for Kane, Bogosian, and Kasdorf A 3rd for Vesey’s rights A 1st for Lehner and Legwand (capdump that turned out good) Didn't he also acquire a bunch of picks? I did the breakdown recently and he brought in a bunch, too. More less breaking even. Remember Moulson deal? No one read the breakdown lol. Go search the full list of deals under Murray's tenure and see for yourself! And, again, we lost the equivalent of Colin White, Jack Roslovic, and whatever that 2nd in the ROR deal became, in pick currency, in the acquisition of a Conn Smythe level player, a Vezina Finalist level goalie talent, and a perennial 30 goal type scorer. Edited August 13, 2020 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Thorny said: Didn't he also acquire a bunch of picks? I did the breakdown recently and he brought in a bunch, too. More less breaking even. Remember Moulson deal? No one read it. Yes he did but it doesn’t matter if you make $100 if you immediately use it to buy overpriced goods for $100. His biggest flaws was marrying himself to specific players versus a type of player, seemingly not understanding team chemistry, and completely destroying Rochester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) My point is that he didn't trade too many picks away. He just didn't. He made some bad decisions but he wasn't philosophically bankrupt and in opposition of some accepted standard of the amount of picks it's ok to move. We didn't overpay for ROR or Kane. Is giving Colin White up for a starting goalie an overpayment? The Fasching deal is the only one that sticks out in terms of objective misuse of picks. But he made up for that with the Moulson deal. Edited August 13, 2020 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 Just now, Thorny said: My point is that he didn't trade too many picks away. He just didn't. He made some bad decisions but he wasn't philosophically bankrupt and in opposition of some accepted standard of the amount of picks it's ok to move. We didn't overpay for ROR or Kane. Is giving Colin White up for a starting goalie and overpayment? The Fasching deal is the only one that sticks out in terms of objective misuse of picks. But he made up for that with the Moulson deal. I’d disagree about Kane and Lehner. Kane had requested out and was at odds with the team’s management. So his value should of dropped some. Bogosian was a toss up who had dropped into healthy scratch with awful contract and a random goalie. We traded a former Calder trophy winning freak dman with warts but still very useful. A rental in Stafford worth a 2nd, a late 1st, the 31st pick from the year prior and a former 1st rounder in Armia. It was very one sided then and only worsened as time passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: I’d disagree about Kane and Lehner. Kane had requested out and was at odds with the team’s management. So his value should of dropped some. Bogosian was a toss up who had dropped into healthy scratch with awful contract and a random goalie. We traded a former Calder trophy winning freak dman with warts but still very useful. A rental in Stafford worth a 2nd, a late 1st, the 31st pick from the year prior and a former 1st rounder in Armia. It was very one sided then and only worsened as time passed. A lot of this is revisionist. If you revisit the trade at the time, plenty were saying Bogo/Myers was a wash for us. In no way shape or form was Bogo's value perceived as a "toss in" at the time. Only worsened? What are you smoking? As of this day I'd argue we got the better of the deal. Montour is probably the best active player on either team from the tree of the deal If anything, I'd take Armia back. The pick is whatever. Who knows who it would have been. The Jets got Roslovic who's been a big meh so far. I watch him here a lot, he's not an impressive player. Edited August 13, 2020 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) If Pick Roslovic and pick White for a net of Montour is enough to buoy a narrative that Murray traded too many picks, have at it. I don't really care, I just don't like when "Murray traded too many picks" is used as the main justification for why we shouldn't trade draft picks, full stop, as it often is. As if it was the mere fact of trading them, and too many, that was the problem. It's about WHO is making the decisions. Each decision has its own context and result. I'm good with trading all of our picks, or none of them, depending on the deals available. Edited August 13, 2020 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 I haven't seen it posted yet but Pronman's latest mock draft had Drysdale going 7th and us taking Rossi, if New Jersey were to take Rossi would we take a Dman 8th or does that put a possible premium on trading that pick?? I'm not sure I take any of the remaining forwards ahead of Drysdale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, jsb said: I haven't seen it posted yet but Pronman's latest mock draft had Drysdale going 7th and us taking Rossi, if New Jersey were to take Rossi would we take a Dman 8th or does that put a possible premium on trading that pick?? I'm not sure I take any of the remaining forwards ahead of Drysdale. If Drysdale falls to 8 I think you just take him. Our D would probably be ridonkulous pretty quickly. Just make sure the top 6 additions this offseason are legit mainstays and not placeholders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 Dahlin - Drysdale McCabe - Jokiharju Samuelsson - Risto/Montour/Miller lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Thorny said: Dahlin - Drysdale McCabe - Jokiharju Samuelsson - Risto/Montour/Miller lol With a smidge of luck, that could be Nashville quality for a long time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.