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sweetlou

2C and 3C for 20-21

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Which center's game is best suited to playing with Skinner?

And which center is best suited to shadow the other teams #1 line and add some grit?

Those are the two I want.

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I would think a Gourde and McCann 2nd and 3rd line center would be ideal.  Still young and can move to wings if Cozens or Mitts blossom in the next few years.

Also I think either could be obtained rather cheap since Tampa and Pitt both need to shed salary.

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3 hours ago, Weave said:

Which center's game is best suited to playing with Skinner?

And which center is best suited to shadow the other teams #1 line and add some grit?

Those are the two I want.

I was thinking about your first question.  I think the answer is Eichel honestly, but I think Domi and Skinner would make an explosive duo.  

Skinner thrived when Eichel carried the puck and created chaos in the O-Zone that he could capitalize on.  Domi can do that.  They are both fast and aggressive (over aggressive?).  They would give the opposition fits when they have the puck, and probably give Sabres fans fits when the other team does.  Might need to pair them with a very responsible RW.  Someone like Strome, Stepan or Wennberg, as strong passers, could also be good with Skinner, to a lesser degree.

Your second question question has several options.  Danault, Henrique, Bonino, Tierney, McCann, Copp and Faska could all be good in a shut down role while still producing some offense.

Some of the top end guys like Cirelli, Lindholm, Couture, Staal would probably be really good regardless of role, of course.

If Buffalo was able to get Domi and McCann, two guys who are apparently seriously being shopped, It would go an incredibly long way to fixing this team.  I don’t think the cost of either would be prohibitive either.

Edited by Curt

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5 hours ago, Curt said:

I think any type of ranking that overall rates Granlund above Bergeron, ROR, or Couturier should be looked at with extreme skepticism.  🤨

It is true though that he has played mostly LW since the 2015-16 season.

I posted this article in another thread, maybe you can see the stats they use and make heads or tails of it. I'm not a big stats guy but I somewhat understand some of it. 

It's not as much a ranking and is more that his stats are better than those three guys on certain key categories.

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2020/09/08/mikael-granlund-brings-everything-the-sabres-want/

Just for your info so you can see one of the things I read.

Edited by MakeSabresGrr8Again
Add info

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22 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I posted this article in another thread, maybe you can see the stats they use and make heads or tails of it. I'm not a big stats guy but I somewhat understand some of it. 

It's not as much a ranking and is more that his stats are better than those three guys on certain key categories.

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2020/09/08/mikael-granlund-brings-everything-the-sabres-want/

Just for your info so you can see one of the things I read.

Thanks!

The stats used by the author are fine, but just one evaluation metric among many.  Overall, I didn’t like the article.  The author apparently believes that Granlund at 2C would immediately fix the Sabres.  I’ve been a Sabres fan too long to believe that nonsense.  The author gushes about how great of a center Granlund is, when in fact Granlund hasn’t even played C a lot in the past 4 years.  It’s just strange and seems like it’s written by a guy who doesn’t really know what he is talking about.  Or maybe he is just the worlds biggest Mikael Granlund fan.

I like Granlund fine though.  He seems to be on the decline a bit, so I would be a little cautious with term.  He is still good though, and if he even wants to play C (a legitimate question after years away from the position) I’m not against it.  If he isn’t going to play C though, this team is kinda full at LW, so I’m not sure there is a great fit.

Edited by Curt

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9 minutes ago, Curt said:

Thanks!

The stats used by the author are fine, but just one evaluation metric among many.  Overall, I didn’t like the article.  The author apparently believes that Granlund at 2C would immediately fix the Sabres.  I’ve been a Sabres fan too long to believe that nonsense.  The author gushes about how great of a center Granlund is, when in fact Granlund hasn’t even played C a lot in the past 4 years.  It’s just strange and seems like it’s written by a guy who doesn’t really know what he is talking about.  Or maybe he is just the worlds biggest Mikael Granlund fan.

I like Granlund fine though.  He seems to be on the decline a bit, so I would be a little cautious with term.  He is still good though, and if he even wants to play C (a legitimate question after years away from the position) I’m not against it.  If he isn’t going to play C though, this team is kinda full at LW, so I’m not sure there is a great fit.

Thanks. I'm not as excited as the writer but thought it might be a good option for the "stop gap" that could move to a 3C or move-on in 2yrs. Good all around player.

 

Edited by MakeSabresGrr8Again

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7 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I posted this article in another thread, maybe you can see the stats they use and make heads or tails of it. I'm not a big stats guy but I somewhat understand some of it. 

It's not as much a ranking and is more that his stats are better than those three guys on certain key categories.

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2020/09/08/mikael-granlund-brings-everything-the-sabres-want/

Just for your info so you can see one of the things I read.

The author of the article lacks credibility. His proposal of a second line of MOJO-Granlund-Skinner is absurd. Skinner is not a RW and MOJO belongs on the 3rd line.  I have no interest in Granlund unless we can get him for dirt cheap as I see him as a 3rd line player.  

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Reinhart 47 50 65 50

Skinner 63 49 63 23

Granlund 69 67 54 30

Sabres could use a few more 3rd liners

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7 minutes ago, Weave said:

Don’t like that trend. 

 

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Reinhart 47 50 65 50

Skinner 63 49 63 23

Granlund 69 67 54 30

Sabres could use a few more 3rd liners

In ppg terms.

Reinhart: 

0.59494 0.609756 0.792683 0.724638

Skinner: 

0.79747 0.597561 0.768293 0.389831

Granlund: 

0.85185 0.87013 0.683544 0.47619

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13 minutes ago, Weave said:

Don’t like that trend. 

Well, he's 28, so it should be no surprise that he's already had his 'career years.'

The question is 30 points is an outlier, or the new normal?

Was he just a bad fit in Nashville (32 points in 79 games since being acquired at the deadline in 2019). Or has he game dried up (He had 49 points in 63 games in Minnesota prior to the trade.)

Edited by dudacek

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52 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Well, he's 28, so it should be no surprise that he's already had his 'career years.'

The question is 30 points is an outlier, or the new normal?

Was he just a bad fit in Nashville (32 points in 79 games since being acquired at the deadline in 2019). Or has he game dried up (He had 49 points in 63 games in Minnesota prior to the trade.)

Maybe he plays better on a crappier team...lol

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On 9/9/2020 at 5:59 PM, Weave said:

Which center's game is best suited to playing with Skinner?

And which center is best suited to shadow the other teams #1 line and add some grit?

Those are the two I want.

Larsson. 

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18 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Larsson. 

Most people agree that Larsson is a tough defensive player who can play against the top lines. And I agree that with better wingers he could be a better scorer than he has been with his current unit. But overall I just can't envision him playing on the second line. I'm hoping that Skinner will be put on the top line with Jack. But if he is directed to play on the second line he will need a much better offensive player than Larsson to get the enough out of him to get a return on his investment. 

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1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Most people agree that Larsson is a tough defensive player who can play against the top lines. And I agree that with better wingers he could be a better scorer than he has been with his current unit. But overall I just can't envision him playing on the second line. I'm hoping that Skinner will be put on the top line with Jack. But if he is directed to play on the second line he will need a much better offensive player than Larsson to get the enough out of him to get a return on his investment. 

Me neither, I was mentioning him for the shut down C. 

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Ok, so, Eric Staal enters the mix.

What does everyone view him as? (2C? 3C?)

Do you think any other additions at C need to be made this offseason in order to be a playoff team?

What type of C do you think the Sabres need to add to the current C group of Eichel, Staal, Lazar, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Asplund?

Edited by Curt

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5 minutes ago, Curt said:

Ok, so, Eric Staal enters the mix.

What does everyone view him as? (2C? 3C?)

Do you think any other additions at C need to be made this offseason in order to be a playoff team?

What type of C do you think the Sabres need to add to the current C group of Eichel, Staal, Lazar, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Asplund?

Ideally, a Johan Larsson who can score 30-plus points.

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19 minutes ago, Curt said:

Ok, so, Eric Staal enters the mix.

What does everyone view him as? (2C? 3C?)

Do you think any other additions at C need to be made this offseason in order to be a playoff team?

What type of C do you think the Sabres need to add to the current C group of Eichel, Staal, Lazar, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Asplund?

To be a true playoff team yes, nothing has really changed. Staal is old and faded and although theoretically might be a better fit for the moment it's not a big fix and for an actual playoff team you'd have to think of him as 3C at best if not 4C. 

I don't see him as much more than a placeholder to be honest. 

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29 minutes ago, Curt said:

Ok, so, Eric Staal enters the mix.

What does everyone view him as? (2C? 3C?)

Do you think any other additions at C need to be made this offseason in order to be a playoff team?

What type of C do you think the Sabres need to add to the current C group of Eichel, Staal, Lazar, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Asplund?

 

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Ideally, a Johan Larsson who can score 30-plus points.

Will say it again cause you asked, and dudacek is right - get Chevy on the phone. 

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8 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

To be a true playoff team yes, nothing has really changed. Staal is old and faded and although theoretically might be a better fit for the moment it's not a big fix and for an actual playoff team you'd have to think of him as 3C at best if not 4C. 

I don't see him as much more than a placeholder to be honest. 

This is an insane statement to make. You are talking about a player with more goals than ROR last year and only 13 less points in 4 less games. He would have been the 3rd highest scoring Sabre last year. He's still a 2c, maybe a lower end 2c but to suggest he is some 4c level player is just grossly incorrect. 

You are talking about a player who outscored Anthony Cirelli last year. Who was only 7 points below Brock Nelson in 2 less games. A guy who is tied with both of Vegas' top centers. Who would have been 2nd on dallas in points. And yet you are calling him a 3c at best if not a 4c? Not even remotely true. 

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12 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

To be a true playoff team yes, nothing has really changed. Staal is old and faded and although theoretically might be a better fit for the moment it's not a big fix and for an actual playoff team you'd have to think of him as 3C at best if not 4C. 

I don't see him as much more than a placeholder to be honest. 

If a team has a 4C who can put up 50+ points, it better be an actual playoff team!  

Are you thinking of Jordan Staal?

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22 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

To be a true playoff team yes, nothing has really changed. Staal is old and faded and although theoretically might be a better fit for the moment it's not a big fix and for an actual playoff team you'd have to think of him as 3C at best if not 4C. 

I don't see him as much more than a placeholder to be honest. 

I think he stacks up pretty well against final 4 2Cs Stastny and Pageau.

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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

This is an insane statement to make. You are talking about a player with more goals than ROR last year and only 13 less points in 4 less games. He would have been the 3rd highest scoring Sabre last year. He's still a 2c, maybe a lower end 2c but to suggest he is some 4c level player is just grossly incorrect. 

You are talking about a player who outscored Anthony Cirelli last year. Who was only 7 points below Brock Nelson in 2 less games. A guy who is tied with both of Vegas' top centers. Who would have been 2nd on dallas in points. And yet you are calling him a 3c at best if not a 4c? Not even remotely true. 

My comment is based on what's left in the tank, not on the past. At his age a lot of players simply lose it and he showed signs of slowing down already. Can we get a good year out of him? maybe. Is it a guarantee? i think not. 

 

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I think he stacks up pretty well against final 4 2Cs Stastny and Pageau.

Pageau is definitely better imo. 

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