2020-21 Trade Rumors and Speculation

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Regarding Dreger's tweet, if KA views Linus as foundational, he should be working on giving him an extension before the deadline.

(But I'm not a fan of Dreger's, so I wouldn't be surprised if he were out to lunch on that.)

I also don't see why Montour isn't just as certain to be traded as Hall is.  Montour isn't coming back and will get them at least a 3rd-rounder and possibly more.

I listened to the same podcast, and I took that as Adams is getting calls on Risto, Reinhart, Dahlin and Ullmark and that he doesn't want to trade any of the four.  I read the "foundational" comment referring to "core players that you don't dump at the deadline." It's not really clear from the delivery whether the foundation referred to just the latter two, or all four, but it was followed up with a basically you'd have to over pay to get one, where he was very much referring to all four.

The other interesting blip out of the Sabres segment was Lebrun floating the idea that Hall might not get traded — basically that when it comes right down to it, no team with the need will have the cap space to make it work. Dreger basically told him he was nuts and Hall will be traded.

Also, I believe it was Seravelli who said Miller and Sheahan  will have interest.

Edited April 6, 2021 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Two other Sabre tidbits:

Adams did well getting what he got for Staal; it's a buyer's market and the buyers are waiting for the prices to go down. The price may have only been a 4th on deadline day

Their over/under on Sabre trades was 4, but they think Adams needs to start the ball rolling soon. They said he doesn't have the staff, or the experience to pull off a bunch of deals on deadline day, even just in terms of handling the paperwork.

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Two other Sabre tidbits:

Adams did well getting what he got for Staal; it's a buyer's market and the buyers are waiting for the prices to go down. The price may have only been a 4th on deadline day

Their over/under on Sabre trades was 4, but they think Adams needs to start the ball rolling soon. They said he doesn't have the staff, or the experience to pull off a bunch of deals on deadline day, even just in terms of handling the paperwork.

I honestly just don't understand how its a buyers market with so few sellers.

[Broken Ankles]

55 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I listened to the same podcast, and I took that as Adams is getting calls on Risto, Reinhart, Dahlin and Ullmark and that he doesn't want to trade any of the four.  I read the "foundational" comment referring to "core players that you don't dump at the deadline." It's not really clear from the delivery whether the foundation referred to just the latter two, or all four, but it was followed up with a basically you'd have to over pay to get one, where he was very much referring to all four.

The other interesting blip out of the Sabres segment was Lebrun floating the idea that Hall might not get traded — basically that when it comes right down to it, no team with the need will have the cap space to make it work. Dreger basically told him he was nuts and Hall will be traded.

Also, I believe it was Seravelli who said Miller and Sheahan  will have interest.

Chris Johnson said as much in the 31 Thoughts podcast today. I cannot see this happening.  They floated a scenario where some GMs try and lowball Adam’s, and they ended up on taking the best offer whatever it was, even a third round pick, which I think is ridiculous. 
 

The other nugget when talking about Pittsburgh was if they needed help at 4th line center would they be interested in Eakin.  Would any GM give a 7th to take this load of crap? If so, make this happen. 

[Brawndo]

1 minute ago, Broken Ankles said:

Chris Johnson said as much in the 31 Thoughts podcast today. I cannot see this happening.  They floated a scenario where some GMs try and lowball Adam’s, and they ended up on taking the best offer whatever it was, even a third round pick, which I think is ridiculous. 
 

The other nugget when talking about Pittsburgh was if they needed help at 4th line center would they be interested in Eakin.  Would any GM give a 7th to take this load of crap? If so, make this happen. 

That was Marek who mentioned Eakin and Brian Burke did work with both of them until January. There might be something there 

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Regarding Dreger's tweet, if KA views Linus as foundational, he should be working on giving him an extension before the deadline.

(But I'm not a fan of Dreger's, so I wouldn't be surprised if he were out to lunch on that.)

I also don't see why Montour isn't just as certain to be traded as Hall is.  Montour isn't coming back and will get them at least a 3rd-rounder and possibly more.

Winnipeg is another possibility 

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I listened to the same podcast, and I took that as Adams is getting calls on Risto, Reinhart, Dahlin and Ullmark and that he doesn't want to trade any of the four.  I read the "foundational" comment referring to "core players that you don't dump at the deadline." It's not really clear from the delivery whether the foundation referred to just the latter two, or all four, but it was followed up with a basically you'd have to over pay to get one, where he was very much referring to all four.

The other interesting blip out of the Sabres segment was Lebrun floating the idea that Hall might not get traded — basically that when it comes right down to it, no team with the need will have the cap space to make it work. Dreger basically told him he was nuts and Hall will be traded.

Also, I believe it was Seravelli who said Miller and Sheahan  will have interest.

If the Sabres are willing to retain, Leafs and Montreal make sense.

The Leafs would probably include Kerfoot in the return.  Two Years left at 3.5. Good Bottom Six Center. Would the pick be a 1st or 2nd and 3rd.

 

Montreal can move Gallengher to LTIR and include a cap dump like Jordan Weal to make it work. First please as the pick 

The Islanders and Panthers can do the deal without retention, but would probably want the Sabres to do so. 
 

Boston and maybe Colorado would be dark horse teams 

[thewookie1]

46 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

Chris Johnson said as much in the 31 Thoughts podcast today. I cannot see this happening.  They floated a scenario where some GMs try and lowball Adam’s, and they ended up on taking the best offer whatever it was, even a third round pick, which I think is ridiculous. 

 

I would hope in that case Adams doesn't trade him and then actually tells the fans that the offers he was given were terrible. 

"The offers for Hall never approached above a 3rd round pick so I decided that rather than settle for peanuts; I would hold onto Hall until the end of the season. My GM counterparts need to understand that I am willing to negotiate but I am not willing to just give players away."

 

 

[Thorny]

9 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

I like Adams’ thought on Dahlin and Ullmark as implied here 

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

Two other Sabre tidbits:

Adams did well getting what he got for Staal; it's a buyer's market and the buyers are waiting for the prices to go down. The price may have only been a 4th on deadline day

Their over/under on Sabre trades was 4, but they think Adams needs to start the ball rolling soon. They said he doesn't have the staff, or the experience to pull off a bunch of deals on deadline day, even just in terms of handling the paperwork.

 ^Being at a competitive disadvantage here sucks. Hopefully the moves that take place earlier than they normally would don’t suffer on return. 

Staal pretty good so far 

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

 

I would hope in that case Adams doesn't trade him and then actually tells the fans that the offers he was given were terrible. 

"The offers for Hall never approached above a 3rd round pick so I decided that rather than settle for peanuts; I would hold onto Hall until the end of the season. My GM counterparts need to understand that I am willing to negotiate but I am not willing to just give players away."

 

 

That's exactly what he should do. 

[apuszczalowski]

9 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

 

I would hope in that case Adams doesn't trade him and then actually tells the fans that the offers he was given were terrible. 

"The offers for Hall never approached above a 3rd round pick so I decided that rather than settle for peanuts; I would hold onto Hall until the end of the season. My GM counterparts need to understand that I am willing to negotiate but I am not willing to just give players away."

 

 

So your willing to give him away at the end of a season (when his deal is up) that would take a historic run to get out of the leagues basement rather then get whatever the best offer is someone else is willing to give you? This season is over and they are only playing for pride at this point (if they have any left). That thinking is understandable for someone like Eichel or Reinhart who are good players with term left on their deals, you don't want to just give them away. But someone like Hall, on a one year deal is worth nothing to the team this year after the deadline and getting anything (even a lower pick) is better because it frees space for someone else as a tryout for the rest of the year.

[thewookie1]

2 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

So your willing to give him away at the end of a season (when his deal is up) that would take a historic run to get out of the leagues basement rather then get whatever the best offer is someone else is willing to give you? This season is over and they are only playing for pride at this point (if they have any left). That thinking is understandable for someone like Eichel or Reinhart who are good players with term left on their deals, you don't want to just give them away. But someone like Hall, on a one year deal is worth nothing to the team this year after the deadline and getting anything (even a lower pick) is better because it frees space for someone else as a tryout for the rest of the year.

It's a statement to the league that he won't just give up in the 11th hour. He has no real background presently to other GMs and they will all want to test his resolve. If he asks for a 1st, and ends up with a 3rd because of desperation other teams will understand that he'll fold if you wait long enough. 

[LGR4GM]

49 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

So your willing to give him away at the end of a season (when his deal is up) that would take a historic run to get out of the leagues basement rather then get whatever the best offer is someone else is willing to give you? This season is over and they are only playing for pride at this point (if they have any left). That thinking is understandable for someone like Eichel or Reinhart who are good players with term left on their deals, you don't want to just give them away. But someone like Hall, on a one year deal is worth nothing to the team this year after the deadline and getting anything (even a lower pick) is better because it frees space for someone else as a tryout for the rest of the year.

If some GM is like come on take this 3rd rounder for Hall and eat half his salary, yes. The power in any relationship lies with whoever cares least. We should care nothing for an extra 3rd round pick that might be an NHL player in 4-6 years when trading a player of Hall's caliber. Sure his value might be inflated after not being great this year but that's not our problem, that's something another GM needs to deal with. You hold here to strengthen your position in the future for trade talks. Just caving at the last minute to get whatever you can sends a signal that you will do that. Considering we aren't tanking what is more valuable? Setting the example of how you negotiate? Or folding and getting pennies on the dollar just so you can say you got "something"?

[Broken Ankles]

13 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

It's a statement to the league that he won't just give up in the 11th hour. He has no real background presently to other GMs and they will all want to test his resolve. If he asks for a 1st, and ends up with a 3rd because of desperation other teams will understand that he'll fold if you wait long enough. 

If Adam’s is the decision maker, this probably happens, but he is not.  Hall is costing ~$57,000 per day in salary, and Terry will factor this in.  

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

It's a statement to the league that he won't just give up in the 11th hour. He has no real background presently to other GMs and they will all want to test his resolve. If he asks for a 1st, and ends up with a 3rd because of desperation other teams will understand that he'll fold if you wait long enough. 

Yup. It isn't about the pick at that point but making a statement on how you negotiate trade deals as a GM. It is far more valuable to set that tone than to get pick 85 in the draft. 

1 minute ago, Broken Ankles said:

If Adam’s is the decision maker, this probably happens, but he is not.  Hall is costing ~$57,000 per day in salary, and Terry will factor this in.  

I love when ppl do this because if it were true... why was Ralph fired. Why did Terry allow the deal for Hall in the first place. How come this team spent to the cap again. 

There is just no sound logic in this line of thought. 

Where is the proof that Adams is not making decisions? I think it is clear he is, otherwise Krueger would still be here. It seems Adams got the greenlight from ownership to actually do his job. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Broken Ankles]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yup. It isn't about the pick at that point but making a statement on how you negotiate trade deals as a GM. It is far more valuable to set that tone than to get pick 85 in the draft. 

I love when ppl do this because if it were true... why was Ralph fired. Why did Terry allow the deal for Hall in the first place. How come this team spent to the cap again. 

There is just no sound logic in this line of thought. 

Where is the proof that Adams is not making decisions? I think it is clear he is, otherwise Krueger would still be here. It seems Adams got the greenlight from ownership to actually do his job. 

That idea that ownership would factor in was speculated by Johnson and Friedman in the podcast.  So there must be some logic in this thought.  Apples and Oranges between spending money to acquire an asset and cutting bait with one.   As it relates to Ralph, it Adam’s were the singular decision maker, he would have been fired long before he actually was.  At least I hope that would have occurred.   

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

That idea that ownership would factor in was speculated by Johnson and Friedman in the podcast.  So there must be some logic in this thought.  Apples and Oranges between spending money to acquire an asset and cutting bait with one.   As it relates to Ralph, it Adam’s were the singular decision maker, he would have been fired long before he actually was.  At least I hope that would have occurred.   

I'd bet the list of GM's in the league who can fire a coach without talking to ownership first is less than 20%

3 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

That idea that ownership would factor in was speculated by Johnson and Friedman in the podcast.  So there must be some logic in this thought.  Apples and Oranges between spending money to acquire an asset and cutting bait with one.   As it relates to Ralph, it Adam’s were the singular decision maker, he would have been fired long before he actually was.  At least I hope that would have occurred.   

This does not make sense to me. You are losing the money either way but a because you got a 3rd it makes it all worth it? If that is the case, we will never make the playoffs with this ownership group. 

[Sabre fan]

One big thing in our favour is the fact that it seems that many teams are interested in Hall and hopefully one team will try to out-bid the others so that they add him while keeping another team  from adding him to their roster. TO Boston, Montreal, and others are most interested as al think they have a chance at the Cup and adding Hall can make a big difference to their chances. I like Kerfoot and say even a 2nd (hopefully a 1st but TO's 1st will be just like a 2nd as they are not losng to much and racking up big points against inferior opposition)

[dudacek]

I think it is entirely possible that the owners will decide their money is better spent dumping at least a part of Hall's salary than it is proving Adams is a tough guy.

From Tim and Kerry's perspective: 3rd rounder and ~ $1 million in real money vs. message sent.

That said, I think some team will cough up a 2nd, which should be enough for this to be moot.

[jahnyc]

If a player has an expiring contract at a point in the season where there is no possibility of making the playoffs and he is unlikely to re-sign with the Sabres, he should be traded for whatever you can get.  Am I missing something?

[nfreeman]

I think it would be nuts not to trade Hall, Montour or any other FA who won’t be back for whatever they can get.  IMHO there is zero benefit in “sending a message” to the NHL about  not getting lowballed.  The return will be driven by supply and demand, as always.  

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

I think it would be nuts not to trade Hall, Montour or any other FA who won’t be back for whatever they can get.  IMHO there is zero benefit in “sending a message” to the NHL about  not getting lowballed.  The return will be driven by supply and demand, as always.  

So... like a mini tank. 

[nfreeman]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So... like a mini tank. 

How so?

[Broken Ankles]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This does not make sense to me. You are losing the money either way but a because you got a 3rd it makes it all worth it? If that is the case, we will never make the playoffs with this ownership group. 

The conversation was around other GMs lowballing Adams, and the decision about taking the offer (in this they used a third round pick as the basement) against what you and Wookie are saying.  They framed it as holding to protect his resume or reputation.  Then came the angle that Terry would want the former, as it’s a real savings of $57,000 per day.
 

 In Ralph’s case, you are losing the money either way but in Halls’ case it’s actual savings from payroll.  My own two cents, not from the podcast, if both money were not a factor to either decision and Terry was not meddling then Ralph is fired sooner and a Head Coach is named this season.  

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

So... like a mini tank. 

I was led to believe this seasons catch phrase is "retooling".

Ya, "retooling" it is. 😉

 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I think it would be nuts not to trade Hall, Montour or any other FA who won’t be back for whatever they can get.  IMHO there is zero benefit in “sending a message” to the NHL about  not getting lowballed.  The return will be driven by supply and demand, as always.  

Totally Agree to this..... unless we are going to get a FAIR return, we are not a charity to help other teams for minimal cost. We keep who we have and play out the year and let the pieces fall where they may. I think we all believe that this team is better then their record shows and now that they are playing like they should have been all along i think we will see what we really have.