Anthony Cirelli - Can The Sabres of Buffalo Realistically Obtain Him, And If So, What Would It Cost?

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

 

aah

 

Well I doubt anyone can beat the 8th Overall pick without legitimately shooting themselves in the foot. Essentially a team would have to offer a cheap 2/3C NHL player and most teams can't exactly afford that. Essentially you end up with Tampa wanting a cheaper player in the NHL but with so many teams at the cap they will have a nearly impossible time accomplishing it. 

[Andrew Amerk]

13 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

aah

 

Well I doubt anyone can beat the 8th Overall pick without legitimately shooting themselves in the foot. Essentially a team would have to offer a cheap 2/3C NHL player and most teams can't exactly afford that. Essentially you end up with Tampa wanting a cheaper player in the NHL but with so many teams at the cap they will have a nearly impossible time accomplishing it. 

I guess the question is, what are we targeting for that 8th pick?

Someone we hope turns into a Selke contender, when we might be able to grab one now who is only 21? I think he’s very available. We lament not getting JT Miller. Let’s make a serious move if it makes sense. I guess it’s up to Kevyn and Kym. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Andrew Amerk

[kas23]

55 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

STL really paid out their butt to get ROR, so what do we need to give up for Rocco?

Does this mean we can get Rocco if we throw in 2 salary cap dumps in addition to Mitts and a 1st?

[Broken Ankles]

23 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I guess the question is, what are we targeting for that 8th pick?

Someone we hope turns into a Selke contender, when we might be able to grab one now who is only 21? I think he’s very available. We lament not getting JT Miller. Let’s make a serious move if it makes sense. I guess it’s up to Kevyn and Kym. 

Is this a thing now?  If not, it needs to be.  

[dudacek]

The best comparable I can find to a Cirelli trade is Jordan Staal, who was a young, defensively strong 50-point centre the Canes acquired for 8th overall, Brian Dumoulin (who was then a prospect picked in the late second round) and Brandon Sutter.

[Thorny]

45 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The best comparable I can find to a Cirelli trade is Jordan Staal, who was a young, defensively strong 50-point centre the Canes acquired for 8th overall, Brian Dumoulin (who was then a prospect picked in the late second round) and Brandon Sutter.

8th, Samuelsson, and the rights to Larsson. 

Maybe the rights will be appealing to them as they can entice him to sign for what they want. 

- - - 

We upgrade a good 4C to a good 2C for the cost of zero talent on last year's roster. They get a bunch of cap relief, 2 potential future pieces, and the option to retain Johan. 

If we add Cirelli, we are literally only Cozens becoming ready for 2RW away from our first real, adequately filled top 6 since, what, 2012? I just want to daydream about that for a bit..

Edited July 6, 2020 by Thorny

[Sabre fan]

Truth is while it is fun to imagine adding a talent like Cirelli for whatever, we will be lucky to add any half-decent 2nd line center this summer. The whole COVID 19 thing is just adding to the equation and TB is far too smart to just give away a good young talent for players we are looking to get rid of. EXGMTM made what was and probably still stands as quite possibly one of the all-time best trades getting ROR for what he got him for (of course exGMJBotto probably now holds the honor of the worst trade ever giving ROR away for nothing and also losing kane for basically nothing as well). Realistically it'll be the same old tired lineup with no real 2nd line center thus no real 2nd line as both Skinner annd/or Olofsson (think that's how you spell it) both need a good center to set them up so one will be lost again this year playing with a under acheving center

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

This whole thing is an exercise in futility.  TB isn't trading their 2C to a team inside the division not now not ever.  

[Curt]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This whole thing is an exercise in futility.  TB isn't trading their 2C to a team inside the division not now not ever.  

Point and Stamkos play C ahead of him.  Cirelli is their 3C.  That’s why, with their backs against the wall, they might consider it a painful, but manageable, necessity.

Thats the hope at least.  Bottom line is, they need at least one (or 2) of their NTC guys to willingly waive that NTC, or they will not have enough money to resign one (or 2) of Cirelli, Sergachev, and Cernak.  This is a math fact.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Curt

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, Curt said:

Point and Stamkos play C ahead of him.  Cirelli is their 3C.  That’s why, with their backs against the wall, they might consider it a painful, but manageable, necessity.

Thats the hope at least.  Bottom line is, they need at least one (or 2) of their NTC guys to willingly waive that NTC, or they will not have enough money to resign one (or 2) of Cirelli, Sergachev, and Cernak.  This is a math fact.

Stamkos plays primarily LW at this point in his career.  Point and Cirelli are the top 2 centers.  Their top line was Stamkos on the LW, Point at center and Kucherov at RW.  Stamkos is actually 4th on TB in faceoffs taken behind Cirelli, Point and Paquette. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[Broken Ankles]

18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Stamkos plays primarily LW at this point in his career.  Point and Cirelli are the top 2 centers.  Their top line was Stamkos on the LW, Point at center and Kucherov at RW.  Stamkos is actually 4th on TB in faceoffs taken behind Cirelli, Point and Paquette. 

This is ? accurate.  In Addition to these facts look at average time on ice five on five.  He was third amongst forwards. Only Kuch and Pointe ahead of him.  If you look at his line mates on Frozen Tools more than half his time was with Stamkos/Killorn/Johnson/Palat.   Which implies Top 6.  He even had about 5% with Nikita which means top 3. 

Question.  If Cirelli is unattainable which may be true only by their expected return, would you take on cap hit like McDonogh to obtain a cheaper version in Gorde or Johnson?  

Edited July 6, 2020 by Broken Ankles

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Broken Ankles said:

This is ? accurate.  In Addition to these facts look at average time on ice five on five.  He was third amongst forwards. Only Kuch and Pointe ahead of him.  If you look at his line mates on Frozen Tools more than half his time was with Stamkos/Killorn/Johnson/Palat.   Which implies Top 6.  He even had about 5% with Nikita which means top 3. 

Question.  If Cirelli is unattainable which may be true only by their expected return, would you take on cap hit like McDonogh to obtain a cheaper version in Gorde or Johnson?  

***** no. 

[Broken Ankles]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

***** no. 

Is this one step below NFW?   So you go all in on Cirelli (this years first, Mitts Johnson) and payout a higher Aav, or keep those assets to obtain a lesser player with a lower AAV and improve your Defense (at risk of an albatross in 3 years).  

[PerreaultForever]

18 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

Question.  If Cirelli is unattainable which may be true only by their expected return, would you take on cap hit like McDonogh to obtain a cheaper version in Gorde or Johnson?  

I wouldn't do that, but on a similar note I wonder if we could seduce Tory Krug into signing here as I see little chance the Bruins can come anywhere close to paying him his worth and still keep their roster somewhat intact. If we did that we could trade Montour and/or Risto and maybe with one or both of them in a multi player land Cirelli (or Ehlers)?

I'd like to see us try to land some Bruins or Blues, or other players from teams with great leadership and team unity concepts to help change the vibe and build that sort of culture here. The young guys we have have always been on losing teams here and I think gritty winning outside leadership is what we desperately need to build around.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

EHLERS!!

?

Bring him to me.  Make it so, Kevie Boy.

[LGR4GM]

I just think it is absurd to assume all these teams will magically be able to fit all these players under a flat cap for the next 2 years. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Broken Ankles said:

This is ? accurate.  In Addition to these facts look at average time on ice five on five.  He was third amongst forwards. Only Kuch and Pointe ahead of him.  If you look at his line mates on Frozen Tools more than half his time was with Stamkos/Killorn/Johnson/Palat.   Which implies Top 6.  He even had about 5% with Nikita which means top 3. 

Question.  If Cirelli is unattainable which may be true only by their expected return, would you take on cap hit like McDonogh to obtain a cheaper version in Gorde or Johnson?  

McDonough would be wonderful add for two or three years: addresses LD depth, PK, shutdown and leadership issues.
Seven more years is scary. Expect the Lightning would struggle to move him in the future but need him now 

Risto for Johnson and McDonough would solve a lot of Tampa’s long-term cap problems and Buffalo’s short-term roster problems.
 

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

McDonough would be wonderful add for two or three years: addresses LD depth, PK, shutdown and leadership issues.
Seven more years is scary. Expect the Lightning would struggle to move him in the future but need him now 

Risto for Johnson and McDonough would solve a lot of Tampa’s long-term cap problems and Buffalo’s short-term roster problems.
 

Hell no, McDonough was awful last year and is under contract until 38 and Johnson hasn’t been a 2C in 4 years. Taking on 13mil for two mediocre players is what we don’t need.

[IKnowPhysics]

The agreement today freezes the cap for the next two years and includes no amnesty buyouts.  Teams that are cap-strained and signed recent long-term contracts with the expectation of future cap growth/relief may feel an additional crunch.

[In The Buff]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I wouldn't do that, but on a similar note I wonder if we could seduce Tory Krug into signing here as I see little chance the Bruins can come anywhere close to paying him his worth and still keep their roster somewhat intact. If we did that we could trade Montour and/or Risto and maybe with one or both of them in a multi player land Cirelli (or Ehlers)?

I'd like to see us try to land some Bruins or Blues, or other players from teams with great leadership and team unity concepts to help change the vibe and build that sort of culture here. The young guys we have have always been on losing teams here and I think gritty winning outside leadership is what we desperately need to build around.

Yeah i could get on board with Torey Krug if it could happen, with the addition of moving out Risto and/or Montour for some forward help.

And to your bolded: "I'd like to see us land some Bruins or Blues"  1st thing i thought was the ROR trade where we got 3 Blues players back in the deal. How'd that work out? haha

But to the overall sentiment, that was also one of Jbots goals i remember. Adding players that have had some playoff experience, since nobody on the Sabres has gotten that experience with the team itself.  Yes, adding players that come from successful organizations that know how to train & play & win should help lift up the youth on our team for sure. Makes sense to me, it just needs to be the correct player... easier said than done if our history is any indicator.  But i think thats been the idea with Mojo & Simmonds, even Sheary, bringing in players who have that experience.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, In The Buff said:

Yeah i could get on board with Torey Krug if it could happen, with the addition of moving out Risto and/or Montour for some forward help.

And to your bolded: "I'd like to see us land some Bruins or Blues"  1st thing i thought was the ROR trade where we got 3 Blues players back in the deal. How'd that work out? haha

But to the overall sentiment, that was also one of Jbots goals i remember. Adding players that have had some playoff experience, since nobody on the Sabres has gotten that experience with the team itself.  Yes, adding players that come from successful organizations that know how to train & play & win should help lift up the youth on our team for sure. Makes sense to me, it just needs to be the correct player... easier said than done if our history is any indicator.  But i think thats been the idea with Mojo & Simmonds, even Sheary, bringing in players who have that experience.

We got the Blues that couldn't win the cup. lol.  I'm thinking more about the warriors from those teams, even if they aren't the top skilled.

Regarding JBots thinking yes, he did say that, but I don't think he really pulled it off. Mojo's not a bad hockey player but he's really a top notch 3rd liner (which is where the Bruins had him on their run) and only a mediocre 2nd liner. Simmonds, unfortunately, seems to be over the hill. The idea however, is a good one. Trouble as always, is how to get them to come here without having to grossly overpay them. 

[LabattBlue]

9 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

The agreement today freezes the cap for the next two years and includes no amnesty buyouts.  Teams that are cap-strained and signed recent long-term contracts with the expectation of future cap growth/relief may feel an additional crunch.

I was really hoping for an amnesty buyout(s). Without it, the Skinner contract is going to hurt for a long time...even worse than KO. 

[LGR4GM]

16 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

Is this one step below NFW?   So you go all in on Cirelli (this years first, Mitts Johnson) and payout a higher Aav, or keep those assets to obtain a lesser player with a lower AAV and improve your Defense (at risk of an albatross in 3 years).  

I would trade 8th overall, Mitts, and Johnson for Cirelli. I think that is an over-payment but I also don't care because Mitts might be a bust, the 8th overall pick is 2-4 years away and Johnson is 3-5 years away from being a useful NHL player. 

15 hours ago, dudacek said:

McDonough would be wonderful add for two or three years: addresses LD depth, PK, shutdown and leadership issues.
Seven more years is scary. Expect the Lightning would struggle to move him in the future but need him now 

Risto for Johnson and McDonough would solve a lot of Tampa’s long-term cap problems and Buffalo’s short-term roster problems.
 

Oh hell no. 

[Crusader1969]

On 7/5/2020 at 9:40 AM, freester said:

I suspect it would be something like 2021 unprotected 1st, Mitts, Ryan Johnson 

jebus murphy! that would be a terrible overpayment.

maybe it wouldn't cost more than O"Reily Trade..without the salary coming back

2021 Protected First and one of the top prospects not named Cozens 

 

 

[freester]

35 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

jebus murphy! that would be a terrible overpayment.

maybe it wouldn't cost more than O"Reily Trade..without the salary coming back

2021 Protected First and one of the top prospects not named Cozens 

 

 

Young 2C don’t come cheap. Mitts may never be an NHL player,  Johnson was drafted lower than Mark Pysyk and may not amount to much. Hopefully the 1st round pick will be a late pick. Tampa is a much better run organization and I’m sure they will figure out a way to keep Cirelli. Good organizations don’t let players like ROR or Cirelli leave.