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Andrew Amerk

Anthony Cirelli - Can The Sabres of Buffalo Realistically Obtain Him, And If So, What Would It Cost?

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1. Can we realistically obtain him?

2. What will he cost to obtain?

Edited by Andrew Amerk

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I must be mistaken and I apologize if I am I thought posters were discussing That at length in this thread .... 

 

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34 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

1. Can we realistically obtain him?

2. What will he cost to obtain?

All depends on how Tampa decides to balance their money (and also on whether they win the cup since cup winners often get to raise salary demands). It's certainly not impossible, but I would suggest some sort of creative multi player/prospects/picks deal would be necessary. They won't just give him away. 

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The cap will be flat for a few years. Tampa is tight now and has a boatload of NTCs.

Buffalo has some space and needs to find a way to make this happen.

Cirelli is from Vaughn, Ontario, a couple of hours from Buffalo.
 

Maybe he would sign an offer sheet for a team that is on the rise, especially if he can be the difference maker.

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8 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

1. Can we realistically obtain him?

2. What will he cost to obtain?

Yes we could unless tampa can trade a couple nmc. 

I'd guess you're talking 8th overall. Maybe you could do Mitts and 2nd rounder 

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3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes we could unless tampa can trade a couple nmc. 

I'd guess you're talking 8th overall. Maybe you could do Mitts and 2nd rounder 

I suspect it would be something like 2021 unprotected 1st, Mitts, Ryan Johnson 

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14 minutes ago, WildCard said:

If he can he'll block coming here 

We may have to overpay him contract wise, but given the uncertain financial future in the NHL he may take it, and it’s close to home. 

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18 minutes ago, WildCard said:

If he can he'll block coming here 

he can't

43 minutes ago, freester said:

I suspect it would be something like 2021 unprotected 1st, Mitts, Ryan Johnson 

no it gets top 10 protected. 

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A few years ago when Stamkos was a free agent many people thought he would be too costly for Tampa to keep. At that time it was thought that the front runner in the bidding for his services would be Toronto where he was from. Tampa is one of the best run hockey operations in the league. And they are a perennial cup contender. Stamkos probably could have gotten more money from another team if he desired to leave. Instead, he stayed with a team which consistently wins and lives in a state that has no state income tax so some of the extra money that he could have gotten from another team is offset by the lower state income tax.  

As others have pointed out Tampa has to contend with a number of no trade clauses making it even more challenging to fit in a fair-value contract for a young star like Cirelli. I just don't see him leaving to go to a team like Buffalo even if he decides to leave. If Tampa was willing to trade him we would have to have him signed to a new long term contract before the deal could be made. 

There are a few second-tier 2Cs who could be available and would be less costly if traded for. That might be a more feasible and a more realistic route to take in our quest to find a suitable center for the second line.  

 

 

Edited by JohnC

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7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

A few years ago when Stamkos was a free agent many people thought he would be too costly for Tampa to keep. At that time it was thought that the front runner in the bidding for his services would be Toronto where he was from. Tampa is one of the best run hockey operations in the league. And they are a perennial cup contender. Stamkos probably could have gotten more money from another team if he desired to leave. Instead, he stayed with a team which consistently wins and lives in a state that has no state income tax so some of the extra money that he could have gotten from another team is offset by the lower state income tax.  

As others have pointed out Tampa has to contend with a number of no trade clauses making it even more challenging to fit in a fair-value contract for a young star like Cirelli. I just don't see him leaving to go to a team like Buffalo even if he decides to leave. If Tampa was willing to trade him we would have to have him signed to a new long term contract before the deal could be made. 

There are a few second-tier 2Cs who could be available and would be less costly if traded for. That might be a more feasible and a more realistic route to take in our quest to find a suitable center for the second line.  

 

 

No we wouldn't. He's an RFA. If we trade for him we can then sign him. He might get a Reinhart level bridge (from tampa) instead of the 6mil he's worth. 

Edited by LGR4GM

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15 minutes ago, freester said:

We may have to overpay him contract wise, but given the uncertain financial future in the NHL he may take it, and it’s close to home. 

We pay a high price for a guy who may not want to be here? Not sure I'd want to risk that.

Edited by Radar
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2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No we wouldn't. He's an RFA. If we trade for him we can then sign him. He might get a Reinhart level bridge (from tampa) instead of the 6mil he's worth. 

Does he have to sign? And if so what would be the length of the contract? 

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29 minutes ago, Radar said:

We pay a high price for a guy who may not want to be here? Not sure I'd want to risk that.

He would have to agree to a long term deal before we make the trade 

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Reacquire our 3rd from the Rangers

Offer sheet him at 5x6.1mil with the quick entrance to UFA and Buffalo being near his hometown and an elevated role as 2C I could certainly see him being at least interested. Especially if Tampa low balls him due to their cap woes and flat cap.

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3 hours ago, French Collection said:

 

Cirelli is from Vaughn, Ontario, a couple of hours from Buffalo.

I have a hunch that this tidbit doesn’t matter. 
 

It would appear from that TBL Return To Play video, that he lives in Tampa during the off-season working as a waiter at a restaurant, and rides jet skis with jeans on. 

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1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Does he have to sign? And if so what would be the length of the contract? 

 

1 hour ago, freester said:

He would have to agree to a long term deal before we make the trade 

He is an RFA without arbitration rights.  He has almost zero leverage.  He can holdout, but that isn’t good for anyone.  He can sign in Europe, but that is a huge step down in competition and far from his home.  His only real leverage is to sign a short-term deal until he can become a UFA, but that may limit his current income.   The truth is if TB is foolish enough to trade him in the division, he’d sign and relatively quickly.  

That said, TB traded Miller To Vancouver.  If they have to trade Cirelli, expect a deal out West somewhere.

Also he only had 44 pts in 68 games.  This isn’t exactly HOF production.  He is a very good player, but again there are probably cheaper alternatives which are much more likely to get done then us acquiring Cirelli even with an offer sheet.

We need to be more realistic.  If by some miracle he is acquired without destroying another part of the team, then great.  However, I can almost guarantee Cirelli won’t be a Sabre next season.

Bullet points

1. TB will almost certainly keep Cirelli.  They will find takers for two of their NTC players and two players like Gourde and Johnson looking for a fresh start.

2. Even if we make an Offer Sheet for Cirelli, it doesn’t mean he’ll sign.  
3. Even if he does sign the offer sheet, TB will match it to keep him, as they can be over the cap in the off-season. This will actually give them the opportunity to still trade two NTCs and keep Cirelli without worrying about the contract negotiations or trade him with the contract done. 

4. Odds of them trading within the division are nearly zero.

Edited by GASabresIUFAN
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[This is an automated response]

As a courtesy to the other board members, please use more descriptive topic titles. A single name if far too vague to post as a title and provides little insight into what specifically the post is talking about.The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate.

Thank you.

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@Andrew Amerk,

Fantastic thread title edit.

I think the Sabres could obtain this guy, but it would cost a lot.  Of course, a long-term extension would have to be agreed to prior to the trade, or a sign and trade thingie would have to happen.  I don't think that an offer sheet is the way to go on this.  Tampa would surely match and every other GM would be pissed at our new guy.

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41 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

Also he only had 44 pts in 68 games.  This isn’t exactly HOF production.  He is a very good player, but again there are probably cheaper alternatives which are much more likely to get done then us acquiring Cirelli even with an offer sheet.

For a comparison:

Cirelli - .56 PPG first 3 seasons (.65 this season)

ROR - .45 PPG first 3 seasons (.57 at the time we obtained him)

Aside from whether or not he is realistically obtainable, it boils down to whoever is in charge of these decisions choosing whether a Selke-contending building block for the future like a Cirelli is a better option than a “cheaper alternative” (such as a Haula) for 2 years while we hope someone else develops into the 2C role. 
 

Also, I hope those brilliant minds in charge are aware of the frustrations of the fanbase, and realize if they want people at the rink buying overpriced La Nova pizza slice and/or seeing La Nova logos behind the net on TV, a player like a Cirelli is going to help the hope tank more than a player like a Haula. 

Edited by Andrew Amerk
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1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said:

For a comparison:

Cirelli - .56 PPG first 3 seasons (.65 this season)

ROR - .45 PPG first 3 seasons (.57 at the time we obtained him)

Aside from whether or not he is realistically obtainable, it boils down to whoever is in charge of these decisions choosing whether a Selke-contending building block for the future like a Cirelli is a better option than a “cheaper alternative” (such as a Haula) for 2 years while we hope someone else develops into the 2C role. 
 

Also, I hope those brilliant minds in charge are aware of the frustrations of the fanbase, and realize if they want people at the rink buying overpriced La Nova pizza slice and/or seeing La Nova logos behind the net on TV, a player like a Cirelli is going to help the hope tank more than a player like a Haula. 

You asked to start this thread whether getting Cirelli is realistic.  It isn’t. Sitting here and praying that somehow we are going to get Cirelli is an exercise in frustration.  It’s not happening.  

I’d love to make an offer sheet just to screw with TB and force their hand, but Cirelli isn’t going to sign it.  Is it worth a call to his agent? Sure, but again it just a pipe dream.

We are better off finding away to improve the team based on who we can realistically acquire.

 

Edited by GASabresIUFAN
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3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

He is an RFA without arbitration rights.  He has almost zero leverage.  He can holdout, but that isn’t good for anyone.  He can sign in Europe, but that is a huge step down in competition and far from his home.  His only real leverage is to sign a short-term deal until he can become a UFA, but that may limit his current income.   The truth is if TB is foolish enough to trade him in the division, he’d sign and relatively quickly.  

That said, TB traded Miller To Vancouver.  If they have to trade Cirelli, expect a deal out West somewhere.

Also he only had 44 pts in 68 games.  This isn’t exactly HOF production.  He is a very good player, but again there are probably cheaper alternatives which are much more likely to get done then us acquiring Cirelli even with an offer sheet.

We need to be more realistic.  If by some miracle he is acquired without destroying another part of the team, then great.  However, I can almost guarantee Cirelli won’t be a Sabre next season.

Bullet points

1. TB will almost certainly keep Cirelli.  They will find takers for two of their NTC players and two players like Gourde and Johnson looking for a fresh start.

2. Even if we make an Offer Sheet for Cirelli, it doesn’t mean he’ll sign.  
3. Even if he does sign the offer sheet, TB will match it to keep him, as they can be over the cap in the off-season. This will actually give them the opportunity to still trade two NTCs and keep Cirelli without worrying about the contract negotiations or trade him with the contract done. 

4. Odds of them trading within the division are nearly zero.

We in general are in accord. My primary point in my post on this Cirelli subject is that I believe it is improbable that Tampa has any interest in trading him to the Sabres. And I don't believe the Sabres are willing to give up the bounty in assets required to acquire him even if he is willing to sign a deal. 

As I said in my prior post Tampa is a well run organization that is known for its smart decisions. A lot of people thought that Tampa was not in a good position to sign Stamkos when he was a free agent. They got the deal done just as I believe they will do with Cirelli.  

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5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

he can't

no it gets top 10 protected. 

If it's a top 10 protected 1st next year, Mitts, and Johnson, it's such a no-brainer of a "yes" from us that I'm assuming it would cost more. 

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1 hour ago, JohnC said:

We in general are in accord. My primary point in my post on this Cirelli subject is that I believe it is improbable that Tampa has any interest in trading him to the Sabres. And I don't believe the Sabres are willing to give up the bounty in assets required to acquire him even if he is willing to sign a deal. 

As I said in my prior post Tampa is a well run organization that is known for its smart decisions. A lot of people thought that Tampa was not in a good position to sign Stamkos when he was a free agent. They got the deal done just as I believe they will do with Cirelli.  

Agree that it’s unlikely that Cirelli is both (1) moved, and (2) moved with the division to Buffalo.

Small quibble, Tampa was always in a fine position to resign Stamkos.  The only question was if he wanted to go somewhere else or not.  Specifically, whether he wanted to be close to home (Toronto).

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40 minutes ago, Curt said:

Agree that it’s unlikely that Cirelli is both (1) moved, and (2) moved with the division to Buffalo.

Small quibble, Tampa was always in a fine position to resign Stamkos.  The only question was if he wanted to go somewhere else or not.  Specifically, whether he wanted to be close to home (Toronto).

My interpretation after the fact was Stamkos did all of the off-season shopping he did more as due process - to satisfy himself that staying in Tampa made logical sense. It's totally a guess but I don't think he ever really was serious about leaving. 

Edited by Thorny
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