Sabres Picking 8th

[French Collection]

5 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

Incorrect- Tampa was the number 1 team last year, they would not have had a chance, as only teams 9-24 have a chance here. There is an additional round, a normal first round loss is about equivalent to a second round out this year.

You are right.

There are still some pretty good teams that can get #1 though.

[sabresparaavida]

35 minutes ago, French Collection said:

You are right.

There are still some pretty good teams that can get #1 though.

Undoubtedly. I would be appalled if the leafs or the penguins got ahold of lafreniere.

[freester]

On 7/2/2020 at 10:15 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Lundell 28 pts in the Liiga at 18

Barkov 48 pts in the Liiga at 18

Unfair comparison?  Maybe, but if we are going after the next ROR/Barkov type player from Finland, it would be nice if he produced closer to Barkov.

Lundell projects to be a very good 2 way 3c on a good team and a mediocre 2c on a mediocre or bad team.  Cozens has a much higher ceiling and is responsible and is already here.  Rossi and Perfetti also have much higher ceilings and that is what we need.  If I’m drafting 12-14 I’m thrilled to get a Lundell, but not at 8. 
 

His downside is Larsson 

Lundell projects to Zemgus Girgensons

[DarthEbriate]

This is the thread. I got rid of the top picks, as well as Drysdale and Raymond, because --- really... those are not the best Star Warsy names. Last year, I said Cozens "sounds like an Imperial officer". So @LGR4GM is going to like this outcome.

Rossi - sounds like a member of the Galactic Senate
Holtz - sounds like a pod racer
Quinn - sounds like a smuggler
Sanderson - nope! Not Star Warsy.
Askarov - sounds like a planet in the Outer Rim
Lundell - sounds like a Rebel pilot who is shot down by turbolasers
Holloway - sounds like a Rebel officer
Jarvis - sounds like an Imperial officer
Hendrix Lapierre - sounds like a bounty hunter
Zary - sounds like a helpful pilot you meet in a cantina and go on a side-adventure with

[kas23]

On 7/2/2020 at 8:02 PM, Andrew Amerk said:

What about a playoff team that traded a player two years ago, and got a first rounder in return, and ends up sitting in one of the top draft slots?

That would be fair. The team traded away their right to draft in the first round. It would be the team’s fault for trading away a top draft slot, not the NHL’s. 

[Rasmus_]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:43 AM, LGR4GM said:

I suppose it is time to discuss Lundell. 

Lundell is really divisive because he can be viewed as sure fire grade A 2nd line center or be viewed as a bottom 6 2-way center. First there is not a safer pick you could make. Lundell will be an NHL center. He is old for his draft much like Rossi with an early October bday. He was I think in the top 1 or 2 for Liiga in corsi for. His defensive game is very well refined and he always knows where to be (every scouting report mentions this I feel like). The concern is 2 things. First, how much more is there? He's probably about 90% developed at this point because he is almost fully physically matured and his skillset is well refined for what it is. He needs some work on his skating (agility) and I wish he was producing more offense. The second concern is that offensive part. He does produce but it isn't anything that really screams high skill. It is more about him being in the right place or working hard to get somewhere. I think his passing is decent. His shot is good. Could there be more there, yes but I am unsure if there is. Again I think you are looking at a player that is roughly 90% who they will be. 

My general feeling is that if you take Lundell at 8, you are 100% leaving better talent on the board. To me his absolute ceiling is a mediocre 2nd line center who is great defensively (a poor mans ROR and what I think he becomes). His floor is nice though because he projects out to be a better Larsson so you are talking 3/4th line 2-way center that can play in all situations. Again, definitely and NHL player with his skillset but he is a safer pick. 

 

My argument for him, is that it is time to look at other aspects of this team, and not worry about other talent.  It's to fix what this team hasn't had since the later part of the early 2000's.  It's the ability to play a defensive position and push forward.  To fill the cracks that are flawed in the seams of this roster.  There is a talented center in Cozens waiting to be unleashed.  Getting someone who can be a spark plug and play an intense role like Cirelli would be a boon for this team.  I think there's room for growth in his game, and we need to start building a team, instead of acquiring talent.  Yes we need both. But to put this team back on the right path, it needs players of all ilks.  We've drafted plenty of best talent on the board before, it hasn't worked.  Just my opinion.  I love Lundell, he's my favorite player in this draft class, in the realistic sense and long term he's the type of building block we need.  I like Asplund, and still think he has value going forward, but Lundell is that and more. In addition, after Lafrienere, Byfield, Stutzle, Rossi, there is a wide differential on where the true value of the offensive upside is.  I like Raymond a lot and he'd fit the same mold of talent this team needs.  Scoring ability, and a defensive game that merits addition.  If we keep the pick it's between Lundell and Raymond if he really is slipping down some boards.   If we are able to swipe someone like Monahan without giving up the farm, then do that.  But, if we're keeping the pick, build the team up.  

Edited July 5, 2020 by TheCerebral1

[Sabre fan]

Just read this...The Buffalo Sabres’ luck might have been better. During the Draft Lottery, the Sabres slid down a spot and will choose in the eight spot. Still, it’s a deep draft and the Sabres should get a strong young player with that eighth pick.

 

The Buffalo News’ Lance Lysowski believes the team will go after star OHL center Marco Rossi because of his interesting tie to the team and to head coach Ralph Kreuger. Although the Sabres recently cleaned house, relieving much of their hockey operations staff and minor league coaches from their jobs, Kreuger remains on the job and will likely assume a major role in draft-day decisions.

If Kreuger weighs in, there’s speculation Rossi would be his preferred target if he were still on the board. (from “Sabres’ possible targets with the No. 8 pick in the NHL draft, The Buffalo News, 27/06/20).

For more than a decade, until he resigned in 2010, Kreuger coached the Swiss national team. Lysowski writes that he stays in contact with the programs that produced Rossi. In addition, Kreuger coached Rossi’s father Michael when he played in Austria during the early 1990’s. That makes the clever, play-making forward attractive to Buffalo with their eighth choice.

That is, if he’s still around.

  Too bad we could not move up to get this guy...he's a center!!!

[Thorny]

I just want them to take the player that's the best at hockey, ties be damned. 

[JohnC]

42 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I just want them to take the player that's the best at hockey, ties be damned. 

If we keep the pick regardless what teams do who draft ahead of us we will get a good player. What we should be hoping for is a team or two ahead of us select a defenseman so one of the high quality forwards will still be on the board to select from. Most of the analysts indicate that the top three picks will be upper tier prospects and predictable selections. Right now I prefer to keep the pick unless that pick can be used in a trade for a high quality young second line forward.

[LGR4GM]

I think it's realistic to assume 1 defender goes in the top 7 and a possibility 2 do. 

[Curt]

25 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think it's realistic to assume 1 defender goes in the top 7 and a possibility 2 do. 

My hope is that 2 do.  Drysdale & Sanderson 

Top 7 Locks- Lafrenierre, Byfield, Stutzle, Perfetti, Drysdale

Top 7 Strong Possibilities- Rossi, Raymond, Sanderson, Holtz

Top 7 Longshot Possibilities- Lundell, Askarov, Quinn

 

[Thorny]

Perfetti is a lock in that spot?

If Lafrenierre, Byfield, Stutzle, Perfetti, Drysdale, Rossi, and Sanderson go during picks 1-7, we're looking at a grab-bag of options at 8, right? Someone a few years away in the Mittelstadt/Nylander category. Except for Lundell, I've heard, who's surefire but lower ceiling. 

Trade it at that point, or trade down, unless they are sold on Lundell. Perfetti and Rossi are the only two potentially available during that spot I can get excited about. We need Dysdale, Sanderson, and Holtz/Raymond to all go before Rossi. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Thorny

[Curt]

27 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Perfetti is a lock in that spot?

If Lafrenierre, Byfield, Stutzle, Perfetti, Drysdale, Rossi, and Sanderson go during picks 1-7, we're looking at a grab-bag of options at 8, right? Someone a few years away in the Mittelstadt/Nylander category. Except for Lundell, I've heard, who's surefire but lower ceiling. 

Trade it at that point, or trade down, unless they are sold on Lundell. Perfetti and Rossi are the only two potentially available during that spot I can get excited about. We need Dysdale, Sanderson, and Holtz/Raymond to all go before Rossi. 

Only reason I call Perfetti a lock is because I’ve seen it said that Detroit is definitely taking him at #4.  I suppose it’s possible that it doesn’t happen though.

In the scenario you laid out:  A trade is always an option, but remember that the value of the puck may go down in the eyes of other teams as well.

I don’t think Lundell should necessarily be dismissed as low ceiling.  He reminds me of a ROR or Couturier type, in that his responsible game and IQ will quickly get him to the NHL in a bottom 6 C role, but he can improve from there and eventually take on a bigger offensive role.  I try not to underestimate guys with elite IQ, because if he improves his skating and overall offensive skills a bit, then he has it all.  I think it’s a lot easier for guys to improve things like skating than it is for players to improve their hockey IQ.  I could see Lundell starting off as a 20-25 point 4C, but over the course of 4-5 years, becoming a 50+ point all around good 2C by the time he is 23-24

 

[LGR4GM]

I don't remember which thread I put it in but someone suggested this draft was deeper than normal and I said no. The more I look at it, I think it is slightly deeper than normal. It is above say 2017 but below a 2015. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

14 hours ago, Curt said:

Only reason I call Perfetti a lock is because I’ve seen it said that Detroit is definitely taking him at #4.  I suppose it’s possible that it doesn’t happen though.

In the scenario you laid out:  A trade is always an option, but remember that the value of the puck may go down in the eyes of other teams as well.

I don’t think Lundell should necessarily be dismissed as low ceiling.  He reminds me of a ROR or Couturier type, in that his responsible game and IQ will quickly get him to the NHL in a bottom 6 C role, but he can improve from there and eventually take on a bigger offensive role.  I try not to underestimate guys with elite IQ, because if he improves his skating and overall offensive skills a bit, then he has it all.  I think it’s a lot easier for guys to improve things like skating than it is for players to improve their hockey IQ.  I could see Lundell starting off as a 20-25 point 4C, but over the course of 4-5 years, becoming a 50+ point all around good 2C by the time he is 23-24

 

So you think he'll be better than Larsson as soon as he steps on the ice? 

I would hope that 50 pt player would be our eventual 3C and Cozens our better 2C.

 

[LGR4GM]

39 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

So you think he'll be better than Larsson as soon as he steps on the ice? 

I would hope that 50 pt player would be our eventual 3C and Cozens our better 2C.

 

How many 50pt 3c's are even in the league? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

20 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

How many 50pt 3c's are even in the league? 

None.  

[Curt]

57 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

So you think he'll be better than Larsson as soon as he steps on the ice? 

I would hope that 50 pt player would be our eventual 3C and Cozens our better 2C.

Better at puck control/defense?  Probably not.  Better at scoring goals?  Probably.

 

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

How many 50pt 3c's are even in the league? 

Correct.  Probably are none.

A 50 point C who is also very good defensively?  That’s a 2C.

[LGR4GM]

17 hours ago, Curt said:

My hope is that 2 do.  Drysdale & Sanderson 

Top 7 Locks- Lafrenierre, Byfield, Stutzle, Perfetti, Drysdale

Top 7 Strong Possibilities- Rossi, Raymond, Sanderson, Holtz

Top 7 Longshot Possibilities- Lundell, Askarov, Quinn

 

LA interestingly needs defense and goaltending in their pool. 

Ottawa needs just about everything but could take a defender at 5.

Detroit needs everything so they are a wild card but theres rumbles they want Perfetti

Anaheim is an interesting team. Lundell is a possibility here and I could see them take Holtz or Raymond too. They could also go defense which honestly might be there biggest prospect challenge. I doubt they take a goalie in the first. 

NJD, I am almost convinced they go forward and I am also almost convinced they want size at forward. Rossi doesn't make sense here because of that size issue. Hughes and Hischeir aren't exactly running ppl over. Holtz makes a ton of sense here if you want to get the most out of either center. 

So my guesses are... 

LA: Drysdale

Ottawa: Byfield

Detroit: Perfetti but could go Stutzle

Ottawa: Sanderson or maybe Askarov or Raymond

Anaheim: Stutzle

NJD: Hotlz, maybe Raymond but I feel Holtz is the more logical. They could also go Lundell if they want some size/positioning/defense in their forward ranks

Buffalo: no idea. I would take Rossi, Jarvis, or Raymond. Raymond worries me at times though. Rossi I know what I am getting. Jarvis is interesting considering what he did in the WHL. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by LGR4GM

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

How many 50pt 3c's are even in the league? 

I said I would "hope"  based on Cozens being better than a 50pt guy. Don't we want a 2C better than 50pts?

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I said I would "hope"  based on Cozens being better than a 50pt guy. Don't we want a 2C better than 50pts?

That isn't my question. My question relates to your idea that there are 3c's out there dropping 50 points. I would like to know which teams even have those. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

That isn't my question. My question relates to your idea that there are 3c's out there dropping 50 points. I would like to know which teams even have those. 

You have made a wrong "ass umption" because I never said there was any. I only said I hope he would be our 3C. If that makes him the ONLY 3C with that status it would be to our advantage. So yes, I did answer your question. And that is YOUR "idea" of what was said and not WHAT I said.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't remember which thread I put it in but someone suggested this draft was deeper than normal and I said no. The more I look at it, I think it is slightly deeper than normal. It is above say 2017 but below a 2015. 

I have heard multiple NHL analysts say that if you are drafting in the top ten to maybe 12 you will have an opportunity to select a very good prospect. Almost all of them are unanimous about the top three with the next grouping of 7 or so players jockeying for position with each other. 

[Curt]

5 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

You have made a wrong "ass umption" because I never said there was any. I only said I hope he would be our 3C. If that makes him the ONLY 3C with that status it would be to our advantage. So yes, I did answer your question. And that is YOUR "idea" of what was said and not WHAT I said.

There is the issue of:  A guy playing 3rd line mins with 3rd line talent is pretty unlikely to hit 50 pts, even if he is very good.  That’s why it doesn’t happen.

 

23 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I said I would "hope"  based on Cozens being better than a 50pt guy. Don't we want a 2C better than 50pts?

ROR’s pts while in Buffalo are pretty much what I described as Lundell’s “ceiling”.  If Cozens were to develop into a 50-60 point, good 2-way C.  I would be very happy, and I think that is a well above average 2C.

 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

So you think he'll be better than Larsson as soon as he steps on the ice? 

I would hope that 50 pt player would be our eventual 3C and Cozens our better 2C.

 

 

19 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

You have made a wrong "ass umption" because I never said there was any. I only said I hope he would be our 3C. If that makes him the ONLY 3C with that status it would be to our advantage. So yes, I did answer your question. And that is YOUR "idea" of what was said and not WHAT I said.

I mean... you say that you hope the 50pt player is eventually our 3c and that Cozens is better. If Cozens is a 50pt 2c as long as he defensively is very good that is a very solid 2c. 

What I am saying is that if we have Eichel and Cozens as our 1/2 c and they are both better than 50pt players (we know Jack is) there won't be enough ice time or oppurtunity for a 3c to get to 50 points. Let's say we get Lundell and that Lundell is good enough to be a 50pt player. He's probably on the 2nd pp unit maybe and he is getting probably a chunk of ice time on the PK. The opportunity for him to score 50 is extremely low. So while you want to say I made an "ass umption" which is calling me an ass, I just took your idea to it's logical conclusion. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by LGR4GM