The Tuesday Purge - June 16, 2020

[nfreeman]

Is today Black Tuesday?  Will it be a day that will live in Sabres infamy?

It might be.  Certainly the signs are there.

I'm going to choose optimism for now, and focus on the following:

- TP has spent at or close to the cap pretty much every season and there is no indication that this will cease to be the case (that would've been a good question to ask today, btw).

- I like RK, who is pretty clearly the new head of the organization, and I think TP does as well -- and as @dudacek pointed out, it's quite possible that today's cuts were made following consultation with RK.

- Adams seems like a solid guy with a great attitude. 

- Even with Adams' lack of experience, he will probably do a better job than each of his 2 immediate predecessors.

- Other than maybe Chris Taylor, I am hard pressed to think of anyone who was let go today who had clearly earned the right to keep his job.

- TP is clearly cutting costs, but we have no idea how deep and how permanent these cuts will be.  He said hiring an experienced assistant GM was possible and no decisions had been made on that.  He also said he is not having any financial difficulties (and that he still has an oil company -- I think there was some uncertainty about that in a different thread).

- The Sabres probably won't play a game until around Xmas, and the AHL may not be back at all next year.  I expect them to staff back up (but not all the way back up) as we get closer to Xmas and as the AHL situation resolves.  In the meantime, it's not crazy to cut costs from a grievously underperforming organization when there is nothing to do for the next few months.

- The Sabres have a franchise C, 3 other legit forwards, a terrific forward prospect in Cozens, a franchise Dman, at least 3 other legit Dmen and cap space to fill out the roster.  They also have a good leader-of-men type at coach and a lottery pick this summer.  They have needs, like most teams, but it's not an insurmountable wall. 

I'm not leaving.

Go Sabres. 

 

[7+6=13]

23 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

It is selling low but sometimes you can't take any more losses psychologically. I get it. I'd rather sacrifice some future upside for some additional sanity now

I'm just saying being out at the end of something is when the psychology makes sense - not at the start.  I don't think there's a fan that doesn't understand exactly where you're at but today is at least a day of opportunity if nothing else.

 

Let's see what this new guy / set up does.  

[PASabreFan]

4 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Figured we could use a thread for an overall discussion of what's going on with the Sabres right now.

It feels like a dark day, to me.

It wouldn't be a dark day for me at all, but the thought should be considered, that today is the first step toward selling. Right size things, improve the bottom line, bake some cookies so the smell wafts into the lockerroom and covers the smell of feet. Watching those two it's easy to imagine they have had it. I don't see any way they don't realize they've run the thing into a ditch. Maybe just maybe they are big enough fans to let someone else have a shot. Selling and perhaps closing up PSE in its entirety might be the right financial play anyway.

[Marvin]

4 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It wouldn't be a dark day for me at all, but the thought should be considered, that today is the first step toward selling. Right size things, improve the bottom line, bake some cookies so the smell wafts into the lockerroom and covers the smell of feet. Watching those two it's easy to imagine they have had it. I don't see any way they don't realize they've run the thing into a ditch. Maybe just maybe they are big enough fans to let someone else have a shot. Selling and perhaps closing up PSE in its entirety might be the right financial play anyway.

Must your vendetta contaminate everything you post?  At this point, I am rooting for them to hold the team in perpetuity just to annoy you to your grave.  And the daughters really want the team anyway.

[PASabreFan]

2 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Must your vendetta contaminate everything you post?  At this point, I am rooting for them to hold the team in perpetuity just to annoy you to your grave.  And the daughters really want the team anyway.

Fine. Maybe they have some smarts and common sense.

[nfreeman]

13 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It wouldn't be a dark day for me at all, but the thought should be considered, that today is the first step toward selling. Right size things, improve the bottom line, bake some cookies so the smell wafts into the lockerroom and covers the smell of feet. Watching those two it's easy to imagine they have had it. I don't see any way they don't realize they've run the thing into a ditch. Maybe just maybe they are big enough fans to let someone else have a shot. Selling and perhaps closing up PSE in its entirety might be the right financial play anyway.

The bolded has the cold ring of truth, or at least a very plausible theory.

But hoping for them to sell continues to be a huge mistake.

 

6 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Must your vendetta contaminate everything you post?  At this point, I am rooting for them to hold the team in perpetuity just to annoy you to your grave.  And the daughters really want the team anyway.

Oh!  Oh!  Shots fired!

I think you're right about the daughters, thank goodness. 

[Taro T]

29 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It wouldn't be a dark day for me at all, but the thought should be considered, that today is the first step toward selling. Right size things, improve the bottom line, bake some cookies so the smell wafts into the lockerroom and covers the smell of feet. Watching those two it's easy to imagine they have had it. I don't see any way they don't realize they've run the thing into a ditch. Maybe just maybe they are big enough fans to let someone else have a shot. Selling and perhaps closing up PSE in its entirety might be the right financial play anyway.

Would be for me.  For the past 30 years, even when things were going good we always had to watch for that other shoe dropping - would they keep Hawerchuk, Mogilny, & the rest of the core (nope); are they going to get everybody into camp without holdouts (nope); one goal & a game away (No Goal!); are they really going to trade the captain & the best goalie ever (yep); were the new owners really crooks (yep); is the team really in bankruptcy (yep); are they really going to get sold to an undercapitalized nursing home magnate (dodged that bullet); they're bought by one of the richest guys in NYS (cool!) who would like to have everybody on 1 day contracts and has a mandate to break even every year w/ an internal cap (nuts); is the league really going to lose a year (yep); they're 1 win from the finals! (too bad nobody knows how to disinfect a shinpad (####!), at least they'll get everybody back (well, except for McKee, Grier, & Dumont, & effectively Connolly), they won the Presidents Trophy (but you will lose 3 C's in the process & overpay Vanek); 2 more long years, but they're coming out of it & won the division (Boychuk); hey, they're back up (Lucic); hey, they snuck in the playoffs (Pominville); hey we FINALLY have owners that will spend (Leino - soon to be followed by suffering); they've got a core & Dahlin (bye, bye O'Reilly).

20+ years of constantly having to worry about how the moderately good time will end because they're undercapitalized followed by the last 8 wondering when the season finally won't be a train wreck.  They CAN figure this out (though it looks like it won't be soon) & darn it we should get to find out what it's like to have a team winning that won't immediately get torn apart because the owner is undercapitalized.  And there is no reason to expect the next owner won't be undercapitalized- it's what we get.

We're in a special little portion of h*ll; would rather stick it out here than go back to the version inhabited by the Yotes, the Panthers, the BJs, & the Otters.  All we need to move up rather than over is a good GM.  (Maybe we lucked into one.)  That should be easier to fix than also needed a well capitalized owner that wants to keep a team here.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Taro T

[That Aud Smell]

27 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It wouldn't be a dark day for me at all, but the thought should be considered, that today is the first step toward selling. Right size things, improve the bottom line, bake some cookies so the smell wafts into the lockerroom and covers the smell of feet. Watching those two it's easy to imagine they have had it. I don't see any way they don't realize they've run the thing into a ditch. Maybe just maybe they are big enough fans to let someone else have a shot. Selling and perhaps closing up PSE in its entirety might be the right financial play anyway.

Unlikely they’d wind down PSE when it still owns and operates the Bills.

[PASabreFan]

39 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Would be for me.  For the past 30 years, even when things were going good we always had to watch for that other shoe dropping - would they keep Hawerchuk, Mogilny, & the rest of the core (nope); are they going to get everybody into camp without holdouts (nope); one goal & a game away (No Goal!); are they really going to trade the captain & the best goalie ever (yep); were the new owners really crooks (yep); is the team really in bankruptcy (yep); are they really going to get sold to an undercapitalized nursing home magnate (dodged that bullet); they're bought by one of the richest guys in NYS (cool!) who would like to have everybody on 1 day contracts and has a mandate to break even every year w/ an internal cap (nuts); is the league really going to lose a year (yep); they're 1 win from the finals! (too bad nobody knows how to disinfect a shinpad (####!), at least they'll get everybody back (well, except for McKee, Grier, & Dumont, & effectively Connolly), they won the Presidents Trophy (but you will lose 3 C's in the process & overpay Vanek); 2 more long years, but they're coming out of it & won the division (Boychuk); hey, they're back up (Lucic); hey, they snuck in the playoffs (Pominville); hey we FINALLY have owners that will spend (Leino - soon to be followed by suffering); they've got a core & Dahlin (bye, bye O'Reilly).

20+ years of constantly having to worry about how the moderately good time will end because they're undercapitalized followed by the last 8 wondering when the season finally won't be a train wreck.  They CAN figure this out (though it looks like it won't be soon) & darn it we should get to find out what it's like to have a team winning that won't immediately get torn apart because the owner is undercapitalized.  And there is no reason to expect the next owner won't be undercapitalized- it's what we get.

We're in a special little portion of h*ll; would rather stick it out here than go back to the version inhabited by the Yotes, the Panthers, the BJs, & the Otters.  All we need to move up rather than over is a good GM.  (Maybe we lucked into one.)  That should be easier to fix than also needed a well capitalized owner that wants to keep a team here.

Good stuff. But your path to success seems like a fantasy if you don't think the owners can figure it out any time soon or you're relying on luck to find a good GM. I think deep down you know, like I do, that after almost 10 years these people are fully formed adult sports owners. Your fear of letting go of the rope seems to be colored by a big dose of Because Buffalo. "It's what we get." Bad or under-funded owners, that is. Yet, each of those owners you cited could have easily had Cup rings, the Knoxes and OSP maybe two each. I do applaud your patience of Job, and yours is a cautionary tale that's worth hearing.

57 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Unlikely they’d wind down PSE when it still owns and operates the Bills.

OK. But the country music label, the graphic design firm, the organic toast place etc.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

13 hours ago, Sabel79 said:

You go ahead and maintain that lifestyle, Kim & Terry.  I think I’m officially out, having had the afternoon to think about it more than i should have for some reason.  
 

There’ll be no saving this ship.  They’re bailing water into it at this point.  

No.  Don't bail on me.  You are no quiter.  These bastages are not worth it.

I've got the pirate satellite all reved up and ready to go.  We will blast them with radio clash in ... 3 ... 2 ... 1.

[LGR4GM]

I don't think we should call this Black Tuesday. It was a massive Purge. We should just call it "The Purge 2020"

[darksabre]

Welcome to Purgeatory 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, darksabre said:

Welcome to Purgeatory 

[That Aud Smell]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think we should call this Black Tuesday. It was a massive Purge. We should just call it "The Purge 2020"

Great suggestion.

[That Aud Smell]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Welcome to Purgeatory 

Fantastic. This immediately becomes part of the board's lexicon.

[LGR4GM]

idk what else to call it but a purge. They gutted a bunch of stuff. 

[Thwomp!]

10 hours ago, Taro T said:

Would be for me.  For the past 30 years, even when things were going good we always had to watch for that other shoe dropping - would they keep Hawerchuk, Mogilny, & the rest of the core (nope); are they going to get everybody into camp without holdouts (nope); one goal & a game away (No Goal!); are they really going to trade the captain & the best goalie ever (yep); were the new owners really crooks (yep); is the team really in bankruptcy (yep); are they really going to get sold to an undercapitalized nursing home magnate (dodged that bullet); they're bought by one of the richest guys in NYS (cool!) who would like to have everybody on 1 day contracts and has a mandate to break even every year w/ an internal cap (nuts); is the league really going to lose a year (yep); they're 1 win from the finals! (too bad nobody knows how to disinfect a shinpad (####!), at least they'll get everybody back (well, except for McKee, Grier, & Dumont, & effectively Connolly), they won the Presidents Trophy (but you will lose 3 C's in the process & overpay Vanek); 2 more long years, but they're coming out of it & won the division (Boychuk); hey, they're back up (Lucic); hey, they snuck in the playoffs (Pominville); hey we FINALLY have owners that will spend (Leino - soon to be followed by suffering); they've got a core & Dahlin (bye, bye O'Reilly).

20+ years of constantly having to worry about how the moderately good time will end because they're undercapitalized followed by the last 8 wondering when the season finally won't be a train wreck.  They CAN figure this out (though it looks like it won't be soon) & darn it we should get to find out what it's like to have a team winning that won't immediately get torn apart because the owner is undercapitalized.  And there is no reason to expect the next owner won't be undercapitalized- it's what we get.

We're in a special little portion of h*ll; would rather stick it out here than go back to the version inhabited by the Yotes, the Panthers, the BJs, & the Otters.  All we need to move up rather than over is a good GM.  (Maybe we lucked into one.)  That should be easier to fix than also needed a well capitalized owner that wants to keep a team here.

The Blue Jackets have become a very solid organization.  They draft well and they play well.  You know why?  They hired a very competent GM and an experienced coach that knows how to get the best out of what he has. Unfortunately I don't see the Sabres moves as heading in that direction, but I hope to be surprised.

More likely, we're going to end up like the other three examples you cite.  I mean, we're pretty much there already.

[SwampD]

Maybe they’re just stupid and don’t know what the word furlough means.

[Thwomp!]

21 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Welcome to Purgeatory 

We went from purgatory to purgeatory, which will likely lead to even more purgatory.  

[That Aud Smell]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

idk what else to call it but a purge. They gutted a bunch of stuff. 

the thread title has been edited to reflect your more accurate characterization of 6.16.20.

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

the thread title has been edited to reflect your more accurate characterization of 6.16.20.

The question is, will this lead to something better? You can purge someone or something from your life and come out better for it. 

Edited June 17, 2020 by LGR4GM

[PASabreFan]

Were the positions purged to save money or were the people purged for poor performance or a little of both? If people come back to fill the positions, will they make less money? Will they thus be lesser in some ways — less experienced, less talented, etc.?

[That Aud Smell]

14 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Were the positions purged to save money or were the people purged for poor performance or a little of both? If people come back to fill the positions, will they make less money? Will they thus be lesser in some ways — less experienced, less talented, etc.?

That's the rub. It's not clear to me how much money PSE will save in the short-term by letting all those people go. It may be more of a short-term loss than savings. It does seem clear from Terry's statements that, long-term, the franchise will be staffed and structured differently -- less expensively. Of all the things that Terry said yesterday, his rambling, vague description of how real-time HD video has affected scouting was the most interesting (and telling).

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, That Aud Smell said:

That's the rub. It's not clear to me how much money PSE will save in the short-term by letting all those people go. It may be more of a short-term loss than savings. It does seem clear from Terry's statements that, long-term, the franchise will be staffed and structured differently -- less expensively. Of all the things that Terry said yesterday, his rambling, vague description of how real-time HD video has affected scouting was the most interesting (and telling).

Which fits if you're trying to restructure to give analytics a bigger role in your team building. The entire analytics hobbyist community started by watching video of games and many of them have leveraged that amateur "video scouting" into actual jobs, and even full departments, within many NHL orgs.

There would appear to be merit to it, if you're someone who thinks analytics in an important piece of the puzzle.

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Which fits if you're trying to restructure to give analytics a bigger role in your team building. The entire analytics hobbyist community started by watching video of games and many of them have leveraged that amateur "video scouting" into actual jobs, and even full departments, within many NHL orgs.

There would appear to be merit to it, if you're someone who thinks analytics in an important piece of the puzzle.

I just hope we apply analytics to drafting.