WildCard Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Also mentioned Adam Mair, Matt Ellis and Gionta for roles in the organization. Mair namely as HC for Rochester lmao 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said: Last piece is the important piece... it'll fade, but right now its unlikely that players/coaches/scouts would want to come here. The light workload piece also triggers me... were these guys coasting? Based on the prospect pool, I'm going with yes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Based on the prospect pool, I'm going with yes. Judging by the drafting we have seem... I am also inclined to say yes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said: Last piece is the important piece... it'll fade, but right now its unlikely that players/coaches/scouts would want to come here. Maybe 26 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Also mentioned Adam Mair, Matt Ellis and Gionta for roles in the organization. Mair namely as HC for Rochester Or more likely not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drag0nDan Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: Maybe Or more likely not I mean - we're a stinky organization before the mass firings. There was drama with the layoffs/furloughs before, team never makes the playoffs, players acting like they're being saved when they get traded... not a lot going well at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 4 hours ago, LGR4GM said: I think this oversimplifies things and gives a nice scapegoat. While this may have been the incident that sealed Botterill's fate, the Sabres were bad for this reason and several others. I agree that they have other issues, however I would say that if Hutton wasn't literally the worst goalie in the league over a 3 month period, they'd be still "alive" an none of this would have happened. Of course, it could have still happened after the season was done but if they happened to win the play-in series, I doubt any changes would have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drag0nDan Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 Just now, Crusader1969 said: I agree that they have other issues, however I would say that if Hutton wasn't literally the worst goalie in the league over a 3 month period, they'd be still "alive" an none of this would have happened. Of course, it could have still happened after the season was done but if they happened to win the play-in series, I doubt any changes would have happened. He started 30 games, and gave up 5 or more goals in 9 of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Drag0nDan said: He started 30 games, and gave up 5 or more goals in 9 of them. I believe he had a 3 month span with a save percentage around .880% You can not overcome that type of goaltending. This is why im not ready to jump off any bridges, I honestly believe they aren't that far from being a legit playoff contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drag0nDan Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said: I believe he had a 3 month span with a save percentage around .880% You can not overcome that type of goaltending. This is why im not ready to jump off any bridges, I honestly believe they aren't that far from being a legit playoff contender. He didn't play a lot, but buffalo won 0 games when he started from 10/24-2/1. His stats are terrible, and even more when you consider how hot he was at the start. Take out the hot start and he was .886 sv% the rest of the year. During the 13 start losing streak it was .872. Figure an average of 30 shots a game. Thats 3.84 goals per game at his worst, or 3.40 for the remainder of the year after the hot start. Edited June 18, 2020 by Drag0nDan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 Just now, Drag0nDan said: He didn't play a lot, but buffalo won 0 games when he started from 10/24-2/1. His stats are terrible, and even more when you consider how hot he was at the start. Take out the hot start and he was .886 sv% the rest of the year. During the 13 start losing streak it was .872. Another underplayed story. I think Hutton is a great example of Botterill’s reluctance to vary from his plan when it hits a pothole. I had resigned myself to Jason sticking with his goalies, but Ralph and Kevyn aren’t married to Carter. I wonder if they make a move, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 minute ago, dudacek said: Another underplayed story. I think Hutton is a great example of Botterill’s reluctance to vary from his plan when it hits a pothole. I had resigned myself to Jason sticking with his goalies, but Ralph and Kevyn aren’t married to Carter. I wonder if they make a move, They have to. I don't care that his vision has been corrected. They NEED to bring in someone else to pair with Ullmark. Hutton would be great in Rochester as a mentor to UPL and/or Johansson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drag0nDan Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 Just now, dudacek said: Another underplayed story. I think Hutton is a great example of Botterill’s reluctance to vary from his plan when it hits a pothole. I had resigned myself to Jason sticking with his goalies, but Ralph and Kevyn aren’t married to Carter. I wonder if they make a move, Like - did you even ask him if something was wrong? If the eye thing was an issue you could have maybe put him on IR. Eyes are KIND OF IMPORTANT to play goalie... Not that we had much of a backup plan with Ullmark getting hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: Another underplayed story. I think Hutton is a great example of Botterill’s reluctance to vary from his plan when it hits a pothole. I had resigned myself to Jason sticking with his goalies, but Ralph and Kevyn aren’t married to Carter. I wonder if they make a move, This is an apt description -- resignation that despite a mountain of evidence in favor of dumping Hutton, JB would grimly see it through with him. RK, who is more immediately accountable for wins and losses than JB was, should have a different perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 3 hours ago, LGR4GM said: No. They need to draft players. Firing the scouting staff is not a green light to dump picks. Our forward prospect pool is a barren wasteland after Cozens. They need to figure out their drafting NOW. Not next year but NOW. They should have done this in 2015 and we wouldn't be sitting in this position today. There is too much selling for bandaid fixes without actually addressing the main problem with the Buffalo Sabres, they do not draft well and need too. It’s easy to know who was fired, as there’s a published list. But, who is left in scouting? It’s possible they could’ve already established their draft board for the coming draft, but the question is does it still exist? Or, was it “lost” once everyone was fired? This reminds me of the 2017 Bills draft. At least they waited for the day after the draft to fire everyone. Pegs must’ve really wanted these guys out of the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drag0nDan Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 Just now, Crusader1969 said: They have to. I don't care that his vision has been corrected. They NEED to bring in someone else to pair with Ullmark. Hutton would be great in Rochester as a mentor to UPL and/or Johansson. Yeah - gonna be tough to find a trade partner for one of the worst goalies in the NHL at a 2.75 mil cap hit... especially with a likely lowered salary cap. Holtby played like crap last year, i wonder what his market looks like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said: He started 30 games, and gave up 5 or more goals in 9 of them. 12 minutes ago, kas23 said: It’s easy to know who was fired, as there’s a published list. But, who is left in scouting? It’s possible they could’ve already established their draft board for the coming draft, but the question is does it still exist? Or, was it “lost” once everyone was fired? This reminds me of the 2017 Bills draft. At least they waited for the day after the draft to fire everyone. Pegs must’ve really wanted these guys out of the building. they have something like 7 or 8 scouts left. Honestly it doesn't matter because without Botterill saying NO to CHL players the new list should be drastically different. Edited June 18, 2020 by LGR4GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 While they do need to do/redo their draft board, they have a few months to do it. With 7 remaining scouts they should be able to get that done without worry. In the meantime, he needs to get busy on GM conversations (which he has said he's doing), finding a cap guru and start to get the RFAs prioritized, their salary offers estimated for different cap estimates, or be ready to move them. This is especially important because we don't know the cap yet, he has to have mitigation plans ready to roll in the event a) the cap stays even, b) the cap drops, and things like c) Reino pushes for arbitration and an early UFA vs. seeking something long-term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 58 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said: Like - did you even ask him if something was wrong? If the eye thing was an issue you could have maybe put him on IR. Eyes are KIND OF IMPORTANT to play goalie... Not that we had much of a backup plan with Ullmark getting hurt I believe that it came to light that JB knew of the eye issues and did nothing and thats a big reason why he is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, kas23 said: It’s easy to know who was fired, as there’s a published list. But, who is left in scouting? It’s possible they could’ve already established their draft board for the coming draft, but the question is does it still exist? Or, was it “lost” once everyone was fired? This reminds me of the 2017 Bills draft. At least they waited for the day after the draft to fire everyone. Pegs must’ve really wanted these guys out of the building. I can't remember if it was Botterill or someone else, but a member of the brass said a month or more ago the bulk of the draft work was done and they were working to be ready for an early June selection. The scouting is done. The bulk of the debate is done. At least a working board is ready and it was probably "finalized" as far as Botterill goes. The draft board is proprietary information, owned by the Sabres. Every report and list filed remains property of the Sabres. There hasn't been any new chances to adding new information by scouting and testing players because there hasn't been any hockey or testing allowed. They could draft tomorrow if they needed to. The only question is whether Adams wants to run their existing list through a different set of eyes, or a different lens. I suspect he does, and he has plenty of time to do that. Edited June 18, 2020 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drag0nDan Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 Just now, Crusader1969 said: I believe that it came to light that JB knew of the eye issues and did nothing and thats a big reason why he is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 It's an interesting change, but as more information comes out it begins to make sense. The Pegulas have tried the "old hockey" way since they bought the team. They've had "NHL" people in their ear and in their pockets and nothing has come of it. Certainly this can be because of them and not the "old hockey" people. But they are the owners, they can choose to sell the team, or to cap the Pegula well and cut off the "old hockey guard". With regards to scouting one has to wonder why you need so many these days. If you are going to put stock in analytics then you can easily pull the analytics on players from all over the world. You'll identify the key pieces you are looking for and then you send the scouts to check them out and use the eye test to confirm the data. Better than waiting for one of 30 scouts to "see" something and then find the data to prove what you saw. I'm ambivalent. The Pegulas have not done anything right yet with the Sabres. This is just a change in my book. Could it be worse? I suppose, but not much. If it's better, then great. I certainly expect the "old guard" to be quite critical of the move however. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, LTS said: It's an interesting change, but as more information comes out it begins to make sense. The Pegulas have tried the "old hockey" way since they bought the team. They've had "NHL" people in their ear and in their pockets and nothing has come of it. Certainly this can be because of them and not the "old hockey" people. But they are the owners, they can choose to sell the team, or to cap the Pegula well and cut off the "old hockey guard". With regards to scouting one has to wonder why you need so many these days. If you are going to put stock in analytics then you can easily pull the analytics on players from all over the world. You'll identify the key pieces you are looking for and then you send the scouts to check them out and use the eye test to confirm the data. Better than waiting for one of 30 scouts to "see" something and then find the data to prove what you saw. I'm ambivalent. The Pegulas have not done anything right yet with the Sabres. This is just a change in my book. Could it be worse? I suppose, but not much. If it's better, then great. I certainly expect the "old guard" to be quite critical of the move however. This is exactly how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 When Adams is rolled out for a media appearance, does Kim work the puppet strings and Terry acts as the ventriloquist, or is it the other way around? 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: When Adams is rolled out for a media appearance, does Kim work the puppet strings and Terry acts as the ventriloquist, or is it the other way around? Have you heard Terry at a presser? No way is he responsible for speaking in that play 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted June 18, 2020 Report Share Posted June 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: When Adams is rolled out for a media appearance, does Kim work the puppet strings and Terry acts as the ventriloquist, or is it the other way around? Richard Peddie redux? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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