Rioting and Looting in Rochester

[Tondas]

Just now, Weave said:

I'm more than halfway home.  I worry for what my son is going to live through alot more than what I will.

But from what I know from reading your posts, he's got a great role model.  He will change things for the better.  My props to you.

[ubkev]

21 minutes ago, inkman said:

That's not eichel

That is his Instagram story. I took it right from there and screen shot it.

7 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said:

Here's what I know about their stated purpose. 

https://hqudc.org/

Even if you personally still consider this racist...it's no excuse to burn down their property.  But you already knew that. 

 

 

Of course it is. Burn down racist institutions.

[Claude_Verret]

1 minute ago, ubkev said:

That is his Instagram story. I took it right from there and screen shot it.

Of course it is. Burn down racist institutions.

 Abraham Lincoln was an unabashed racist by both 19th and 21st century standards. Let's burn down the Lincoln Memorial.

[SABRES 0311]

32 minutes ago, Weave said:

It only takes a minute of googling to find images of Proud Boys and Boogaloo Bois in those riots as well.  Note the Igloo patches,  Hawaiian shirts, and white supremacy hand signs.  Look up Boogaloo to get the significance of the patches and shirts.  Don't pretend that the far right isn't well represented in the chaos here.  You can bet their aim is destabilization too.  Boogaloo is shorthand for civil war 2 afterall.

 

 

 

Why do ya gotta say “don’t pretend like”? The post was addressing what the lady in the video was saying about AntiFa.

I’m sure their counterparts are there as well. Together they get people amped up doing stupid things. 

[ubkev]

23 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said:

 Abraham Lincoln was an unabashed racist by both 19th and 21st century standards. Let's burn down the Lincoln Memorial.

Yet his memorial is associated with freedom, civil rights and the "I have a dream" speech. It's purpose was not to terrorize black folks in the Jim Crow south. And I'm not sure of any white supremacists who like Lincoln very much.

[Weave]

54 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Why do ya gotta say “don’t pretend like”? The post was addressing what the lady in the video was saying about AntiFa.

I’m sure their counterparts are there as well. Together they get people amped up doing stupid things. 

Editorial bias.

[SABRES 0311]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

Editorial bias.

So you want me to address the right wing even if the subject is left wing? 

[Claude_Verret]

2 hours ago, ubkev said:

Yet his memorial is associated with freedom, civil rights and the "I have a dream" speech. It's purpose was not to terrorize black folks in the Jim Crow south. And I'm not sure of any white supremacists who like Lincoln very much.

Did you read the website I linked where they disavowed any association with white supremacists and racists? Their purpose is clearly to remember their dead ancestors and not the lost cause they stood for.

If all racist institutions should be burned down...and Lincoln is certainly an institution unto himself..and he also held unquestionable racist views...then by your standard burn it down, right?

Edit: it looks like the Lincoln Memorial has been vandalized by the rioters. 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Claude_Verret

[Ogre]

15 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

So you want me to address the right wing even if the subject is left wing? 

Correct me if I’m wrong. Isn’t the subject about extremism? The article is about left wing but all the crazies were out there. Back in the day we called them out for what what they were. Assigning political denominations to extremists gives them more credence than they deserve. 

[thenow76]

46 minutes ago, ubkev said:

Yet his memorial is associated with freedom, civil rights and the "I have a dream" speech. It's purpose was not to terrorize black folks in the Jim Crow south. And I'm not sure of any white supremacists who like Lincoln very much.

While we're at it, let's add the FDR presidential library (Japanese internment) to the burn list, as well as Monticello (good 'ole TJ owned a bunch of slaves) and whatever the Cleveland (Indians) are calling their baseball stadium now  ... JFC, America has a very complicated and somewhat uncomfortable history, don't run from it or "burn it down" ... accept it and learn from it, which we have done ... still much learning to do.

[sabresparaavida]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

It only takes a minute of googling to find images of Proud Boys and Boogaloo Bois in those riots as well.  Note the Igloo patches,  Hawaiian shirts, and white supremacy hand signs.  Look up Boogaloo to get the significance of the patches and shirts.  Don't pretend that the far right isn't well represented in the chaos here.  You can bet their aim is destabilization too.  Boogaloo is shorthand for civil war 2 afterall.

 

 

 

The big igloo association itself is very much not a white supremacists group. They would disavow those who are for white supremacy. They believe "the liberty movement should be for all people", but yeah, it's basically just a group advocating for civil war/revolution.

[SABRES 0311]

26 minutes ago, Ogre said:

Correct me if I’m wrong. Isn’t the subject about extremism? The article is about left wing but all the crazies were out there. Back in the day we called them out for what what they were. Assigning political denominations to extremists gives them more credence than they deserve. 

The video was a black lady confronting two white women spray painting BLM on a building. Both women were dressed in black and one uses the term comrade. The dress and the verbiage match AntiFa. The subject was AntiFa, not extremism as a whole. Never once did I dispute right wing extremism in this country. Never once did I try to to put the blame squarely on left wing extremism. 

So I will correct you because you are wrong as in wrong about the context of the conversation.

[Ogre]

4 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Never once did I try to to put the blame squarely on left wing extremism

You posted the link. You didn’t respond to a link someone else posted. You posted it. Why only point out the extremists to that half of the spectrum of wackos when they’re all equally guilt? 

You

posted

the 

link.

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, Tondas said:

Good post mjd.  I think we're still in stage 2 of grief.  The only change I would make is that I hope we never get to Acceptance in any situations like this.

1. Denial – The first stage of grief is Denial.

2. Anger – The second stage of grief is Anger.

3. Bargaining – The third stage of grief is Bargaining.

4. Depression – The fourth stage of grief is Depression.

5. Acceptance – The fifth stage of grief is Acceptance.

^ They can happen in various combinations, orders and durations, but most people do go through all of the stages.  

[Pimlach]

I’m all for civil, non violent protesting if necessary.  
I do think most cops are good, but like anything I’ve witnessed over my decades, not all of them are.  I’m surprised this happened in Minneapolis, which I thought was a more progressive city, I expected better training and behavior by the police there   Almost everyone is carrying a video recorder on them and this still happens?  

I think we have a have a long way go to eliminate or minimize racism.  We need to be aware there is a movement of evil on both sides of the political spectrum.  I saw it up close in Ferguson, Mo.   These evil ones flock to places in trouble.  Notice how many out of town people end up arrested in Minneapolis.  

[SABRES 0311]

27 minutes ago, Ogre said:

You posted the link. You didn’t respond to a link someone else posted. You posted it. Why only point out the extremists to that half of the spectrum of wackos when they’re all equally guilt? 

You

posted

the 

link.

So if I don’t post two links showing right and left then I’m automatically bias? There’s no way the intent was to simply provide evidence there’s more going on and that nefarious actors are there? Did you actually read the conversation that ensued? You know the one where I identify the KKK and Aryan Nation as well. I did that to provide information and show that I also view right wing extremism in the same light.

I pointed out bias in a political cartoon posted in the politics section. That cartoon depicted Trump supporters as fat, uneducated white people who make up complaints of government overreach. Next to that was Floyd being killed by the cop. Seems kind of bias to generalize an entire group of people like that. Rest assured it was defended. 

So when there is evidence of leftists doing something wrong there better be something showing the right being just as guilty. When the left makes a point bias is just fine. 

Again, your lack of understanding the context of the conversation and inability to gather the details allowed you to sling arrows where it was unnecessary. 

[Sabel79]

1 hour ago, sabresparaavida said:

The big igloo association itself is very much not a white supremacists group. They would disavow those who are for white supremacy. They believe "the liberty movement should be for all people", but yeah, it's basically just a group advocating for civil war/revolution.

The Venn diagram is pretty much a circle and we all know this.  Weasel-words, and you are by far not the guiltiest here, will do nothing to alter that.   

[klos1963]

9 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Ok, one thing that is missing...or not that apparent..is the endgame for the protesters.  I haven't been watching this on tv hour by hour, but I have checked in on the news..and i want to know...what is it the protesters want exactly....the only 2 things I have heard so far "our voices to be heard" and "justice for Floyd/against the officer".   now, that may be all well and good and make the feel better, but what changes things in the long run?  I don't see anything so far.

Who is the leader of the protesters, and what exactly do they want?  Are there specific proposals for things that can be put into law to make changes going forward?  Do they want more oversight of the police?  360 degree cameras on all police cars like Tesla Sentry mode? I mean, I'm not trying to be a jerk either way, but what is the endgame here?

We can't have that 'national discussion' about these issues when that very discussion is only about 'how bad' the issues are or that they 'just exist'.  What are the ideas to change it...what are the ideas the protesters have?  If there is a problem (and there probably is at least a one problem, if not many) how is it fixed?  What are ideas we can discuss going forward and put into place?

There is no leader of the protests, which is why it's all over the board.  There is no leader of the country either, which is why this will continue for too long.

[Ogre]

5 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

AntiFa taking advantage of the situation to divide? I believe it. 

 

20 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

There’s no way the intent was to simply provide evidence there’s more going on and that nefarious actors are there?

?

[SABRES 0311]

10 minutes ago, Ogre said:

 

?

Yep. I posted a video of what appears to be AntiFa. Then in the same post I said I believe they are there to take take advantage of the situation. Now tell me how you know beyond doubt what my intent was. 

For a third time you fail to get the details and jump right to accusations. I also like how you ignore where I pointed out bias toward the right. Instead you cut and paste snippets to fit your agenda.

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, Weave said:

I'm guessing he reposted it from somewhere else?

Yes, he posted the quote (from Twitter) on his instagram. In the screenshot his name is in the top left. 

[SwampD]

9 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Yep. I posted a video of what appears to be AntiFa. Then in the same post I said I believe they are there to take take advantage of the situation. Now tell me how you know beyond doubt what my intent was. 

For a third time you fail to get the details and jump right to accusations. I also like how you ignore where I pointed out bias toward the right. Instead you cut and paste snippets to fit your agenda.

What makes them appear AntiFa? I really don’t know. I can equally see those people something else that wants to make the BLM movement look less credible.

[Ogre]

6 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

AntiFa taking advantage of the situation to divide? I believe it. 

 

3 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Now tell me how you know beyond doubt what my intent was. 

You were marketing this. Were you not? If you meant to be unbiased and point out extremist behavior, why market your intent like this?

5 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Instead you cut and paste snippets to fit your agenda.

That is a direct quote of your entire post minus the link which I won’t repost because then I am promoting one side over the other. 

They’re all selfish little pricks. Why not say “selfish little pricks taking advantage of the situation to divide...”? 
 

 

10 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

For a third time you fail to get the details

The details are extremely clear to me. 

[SABRES 0311]

3 minutes ago, SwampD said:

What makes them appear AntiFa? I really don’t know. I can equally see those people something else that wants to make the BLM movement look less credible.

You mean like the idea floating around that it’s cops in disguise?

 

4 minutes ago, Ogre said:

 

You were marketing this. Were you not? If you meant to be unbiased and point out extremist behavior, why market your intent like this?

That is a direct quote of your entire post minus the link which I won’t repost because then I am promoting one side over the other. 

They’re all selfish little pricks. Why not say “selfish little pricks taking advantage of the situation to divide...”? 
 

 

The details are extremely clear to me. 

I already said the intent was to show video proof of outside extremist interference. The comment was was a personal thought on if AntiFa would do this. 

You continue to try to make something that is not there but never disputed my comments of bias in other posts. It seems clear to you because that’s how you want to see it. Which is why you don’t point out bias in things that vilify the right only. 

[SwampD]

Just now, SABRES 0311 said:

You mean like the idea floating around that it’s cops in disguise?

 

I hadn’t heard that. That’s ridiculous.

Still trying to figure out why you assumed it was a AntiFa over something else that would have way more to gain by doing it.