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PSE Announces Numerous Layoffs in Management Positions

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4 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

In times of pandemic or world health, can always rely on you to keep it classy.

Where's that ol' roll eyes emoji when you need it?

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3 hours ago, inkman said:

He might be a good leader but whenever the Bills have the ball I cringe at the decision making for personnel use and game management. 

I agree with that.  He needs to get through to Daboll.  Maybe the new "coach" for game management will help.

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2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

In times of pandemic or world health, can always rely on you to keep it classy.

Insolvency and illiquidity are very, very different things.

I know that every hook you can, you'll hitch to, in order to complain about the Pegulas.  I'm still not sure why.  Is it because you can't buy the team?  Neither can any of the rest of us.

They did what every other business is doing right now.  Actually, they did it later than many.  (And earlier than many will.)

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Sounds like a major difference between Beane and Boterill is that Beane has the reach back, knowledge, and connections to assemble a top staff and JBot does not.  To me a key difference is McDermott.  Players love playing for this guy, and the ones that don’t were removed.snd replaced with lower paid players that buy in.  The opposite seemed true for the Sabres who pay premiums for players - although Krueger appears to be making progress with the locker room culture. 
 

As for the layoffs- they were leaders in areas that have performed poorly (lots of interconnected reasons),  No cash coming in, why carry poor performers especially higher salaried replaceable people?   Seems like a smart move.  
 

The Bills  are unaffected yet because there is still hope the NFL will play games and Beane is making moves to win right now.  

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9 hours ago, Eleven said:

Insolvency and illiquidity are very, very different things.

I know that every hook you can, you'll hitch to, in order to complain about the Pegulas.  I'm still not sure why.  Is it because you can't buy the team?  Neither can any of the rest of us.

They did what every other business is doing right now.  Actually, they did it later than many.  (And earlier than many will.)

He told me he'd take me to the carnival after he ***** my mom and he didn't. OK? You happy?

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4 hours ago, Pimlach said:

As for the layoffs- they were leaders in areas that have performed poorly (lots of interconnected reasons),  No cash coming in, why carry poor performers especially higher salaried replaceable people?   Seems like a smart move.  

^This.
And it's a window of opportunity to re-organize and bring in new people.

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17 hours ago, Taro T said:

How the #### you going to put it in the bank.  FDIC only insures $100k.  

Certainly they have some in treasuries, but they aren't going to have $1B earning almost no interest.  They'll have a fraction invested in something liquid, but a lot (beyond the close to $2B they have in sports teams) will be in stuff that is highly illiquid.   With that kind of wealth they're looking to have at least a 10% return overall on the portfolio.

It doesn't mean they're broke (they're still billionaires afferall) but by having huge amounts in LT assets they may not have enough liquid to cover their immediate obligations.

Not saying they don't have enough, but there's no way they could've expected the government to shut everything down essentially overnight.

So a lot of ST cash they expected to roll in dried up overnight. 

I prefer to keep my billion dollars under my mattress.  Sure, the mattress winds up pushed against the ceiling and the bed is no longer usable, but at least I know my money's safe.

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28 minutes ago, JimS said:

^This.
And it's a window of opportunity to re-organize and bring in new people.

Creative destruction!

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5 hours ago, Pimlach said:

 

As for the layoffs- they were leaders in areas that have performed poorly (lots of interconnected reasons),  No cash coming in, why carry poor performers especially higher salaried replaceable people?  

 

1 hour ago, JimS said:

^This.
And it's a window of opportunity to re-organize and bring in new people.

Is it the box office manager’s fault that they couldn’t put ***** in the seats? Poor ticket sales has zero to do with the box office. That’s like blaming Target because your My Pillow isn’t as comfortable as you’d thought it would be. 
 

If the firing of these three is performance based(I know two of them through my wife) why wouldn’t they have been fired before the Covid hit the fan, when they had the chance to look for a new job? Why now? Am I the only one that thinks this is a dick move? If these three we fired for performance then they can’t claim for UI and there’s not a jobs to apply for. What are they supposed to do? Was the performance so bad that you’d ***** them over like this? Bad timing for a performance based firing. Another trick from the old book.

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21 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Did you become a Pens fan at any point? Your honour, I rest my case.

Honourary Canuck, eh?

And, yes.  Yes. I did.

Edited by New Scotland (NS)

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2 minutes ago, Ogre said:

 

Is it the box office manager’s fault that they couldn’t put ***** in the seats? Poor ticket sales has zero to do with the box office. That’s like blaming Target because your My Pillow isn’t as comfortable as you’d thought it would be. 
 

If the firing of these three is performance based(I know two of them through my wife) why wouldn’t they have been fired before the Covid hit the fan, when they had the chance to look for a new job? Why now? Am I the only one that thinks this is a dick move? If these three we fired for performance then they can’t claim for UI and there’s not a jobs to apply for. What are they supposed to do? Was the performance so bad that you’d ***** them over like this? Bad timing for a performance based firing. Another trick from the old book.

I said the same sort of thing up thread....and yes it is a "dick move".

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27 minutes ago, Ogre said:

 

Is it the box office manager’s fault that they couldn’t put ***** in the seats? Poor ticket sales has zero to do with the box office. That’s like blaming Target because your My Pillow isn’t as comfortable as you’d thought it would be. 
 

If the firing of these three is performance based(I know two of them through my wife) why wouldn’t they have been fired before the Covid hit the fan, when they had the chance to look for a new job? Why now? Am I the only one that thinks this is a dick move? If these three we fired for performance then they can’t claim for UI and there’s not a jobs to apply for. What are they supposed to do? Was the performance so bad that you’d ***** them over like this? Bad timing for a performance based firing. Another trick from the old book.

I sometimes miss the point on US cases because your social service net is so poor, but weren’t all these dismissals explIcitly COVID related? Isn’t UI covering people fired for COVID?

Separately, if it is a performance -related firing, isn’t possible, or even likely, that performance review that led to the decision was scheduled for after the season, and happened post-COVID, That seems to be common on the NHL.

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3 hours ago, dudacek said:

but weren’t all these dismissals explIcitly COVID related?

When you file for UI they ask if you were fired.  If your answer is yes then your former employer is contacted. If their reason for your firing is a performance based reason then they will most likely be denied.

 

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Separately, if it is a performance -related firing, isn’t possible, or even likely, that performance review that led to the decision was scheduled for after the season, and happened post-COVID, That seems to be common on the NHL.

If only I could have been a fly on the wall at the meeting where this decision was made. Were the deciders aware that they could be excluding these guys from UI? That’s a big tactic in my world, make an example of a few people and the rest will be more “cooperative”. I’m not saying they’re wrong to fire people but JC, how can you fire someone right now? If the behavior was so bad that you need them fired, why not have a set and do it earlier? Even my wife’s non profit that is in the theatre setting has continued to not only pay everyone, but not use this as an excuse to shed people they don’t really like. It’s not a good look. 

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18 hours ago, Ogre said:

 

Is it the box office manager’s fault that they couldn’t put ***** in the seats? Poor ticket sales has zero to do with the box office. That’s like blaming Target because your My Pillow isn’t as comfortable as you’d thought it would be. 
 

If the firing of these three is performance based(I know two of them through my wife) why wouldn’t they have been fired before the Covid hit the fan, when they had the chance to look for a new job? Why now? Am I the only one that thinks this is a dick move? If these three we fired for performance then they can’t claim for UI and there’s not a jobs to apply for. What are they supposed to do? Was the performance so bad that you’d ***** them over like this? Bad timing for a performance based firing. Another trick from the old book.

Good points. 
 
Wether they were talented employees or not, the fact remains the game experience in that arena is poor.  Lots of blame to go around, most especially the product on the ice.  The arena is terrible as well.  Poorly maintained and from a design perspective the  seats are too far from the ice. 

Sorry that your friends were affected.  The Pegulas just can’t get hockey right.  They need help in many areas. 

Edited by Pimlach
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On 4/15/2020 at 4:24 PM, PASabreFan said:

Did you become a Pens fan at any point? Your honour, I rest my case.

Fair point. 

Otoh, it is a tres modern move to diversify one’s fandom. Most kids these days, for example, are fans of all kinds of teams, at varying levels. I think something akin to that happened to Terry when he became wealthy and started hobnobbing with the Pittsburgh gliterrati.

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Vogl article in Athletic: Larry Quinn criticizes the Pegulas for executives  firings.  Quinn is pissed.

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32 minutes ago, freester said:

Vogl article in Athletic: Larry Quinn criticizes the Pegulas for executives  firings.  Quinn is pissed.

And full of *****. Anyone who claims the Sabres do jack for season ticket holders is talking out of their ass. STH had it much better under Rigas than they ever have since. Quinn claimed the Head of ticket sales knew the name of every STH. Sure never acted liked it. 

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44 minutes ago, freester said:

Vogl article in Athletic: Larry Quinn criticizes the Pegulas for executives  firings.  Quinn is pissed.

How lovely.  You wrecked the team, Larry.

10 minutes ago, #freejame said:

And full of *****. Anyone who claims the Sabres do jack for season ticket holders is talking out of their ass. STH had it much better under Rigas than they ever have since. Quinn claimed the Head of ticket sales knew the name of every STH. Sure never acted liked it. 

You're not wrong.  Quinn would know me by face but not name.  The head of ticket sales?  No, would not have recognized me.  Why would he/she? 

That said, I do not think the Sabres do much for their STHs, and that goes back to the Rigas situation if not before.  There are fewer and fewer, too.

Edited by Eleven

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20 hours ago, Eleven said:

How lovely.  You wrecked the team, Larry.

You're not wrong.  Quinn would know me by face but not name.  The head of ticket sales?  No, would not have recognized me.  Why would he/she? 

That said, I do not think the Sabres do much for their STHs, and that goes back to the Rigas situation if not before.  There are fewer and fewer, too.

IMHO, the Sabres have never done much for STHers but did the most for STHers during the Rigas era.  Got free tix to a lot of extra games when they were having problems filling the barn.

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2 hours ago, Taro T said:

IMHO, the Sabres have never done much for STHers but did the most for STHers during the Rigas era.  Got free tix to a lot of extra games when they were having problems filling the barn.

I’ve been a STH since the summer just before the 04-05 lockout. 
 

everybody is different I guess and what one EXPECTS out of being a STH. I think the Sabres do plenty for us. But I also wish it was more in certain areas. But I certainly don’t think they “don’t do much”.

I’m also at a disadvantage because if I should be comparing what other franchises do for all of their STH’ers, I have no clue what others do. And even if I did know, do I know what all 30 other clubs are doing? Or Am I just hyper focused and only want to compare the clubs that are doing “more” than the Sabres, and ignoring the clubs that are doing “less”?
 

That would be an interesting and very time consuming exercise ... team by team comparison, what do all 31 NHL clubs do for their STH’ers. Every last “perk”. And see where the Sabres franchise falls in comparison to all other teams. Ignorantly ... I would guess (Keyword) we are right in the middle zone. Some are better, some are worse.

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On 4/16/2020 at 11:02 AM, Ogre said:

 

Is it the box office manager’s fault that they couldn’t put ***** in the seats? Poor ticket sales has zero to do with the box office. That’s like blaming Target because your My Pillow isn’t as comfortable as you’d thought it would be. 
 

If the firing of these three is performance based(I know two of them through my wife) why wouldn’t they have been fired before the Covid hit the fan, when they had the chance to look for a new job? Why now? Am I the only one that thinks this is a dick move? If these three we fired for performance then they can’t claim for UI and there’s not a jobs to apply for. What are they supposed to do? Was the performance so bad that you’d ***** them over like this? Bad timing for a performance based firing. Another trick from the old book.

Hard to defend the Sabres brass for just about anything these days, but I fall on the side this is not "Dick Move".   Based on their titles, it stands to reason most of these associates will get 6 months severance which is substantially more than 26 weeks of NYS UE benefits.  It's never a good time to be fired, but based on the current environment do you really want these under-performers (at least in the mind of upper management) collecting a paycheck and zooming with their direct reports for 2-3 months?  Only to be relieved in the summer?  I live out of town, so I cannot comment on game-day atmosphere, but I respect the STH on SS and if its not good and they feel disrespected, then cut bait.  Hire someone from out of town, from another team or a different sport altogether to bring a different mindset to the organization.   I hope they improve the experience for those  of you that do support the team as STH's.   

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13 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

Hard to defend the Sabres brass for just about anything these days, but I fall on the side this is not "Dick Move".   Based on their titles, it stands to reason most of these associates will get 6 months severance which is substantially more than 26 weeks of NYS UE benefits.  It's never a good time to be fired, but based on the current environment do you really want these under-performers (at least in the mind of upper management) collecting a paycheck and zooming with their direct reports for 2-3 months?  Only to be relieved in the summer?  I live out of town, so I cannot comment on game-day atmosphere, but I respect the STH on SS and if its not good and they feel disrespected, then cut bait.  Hire someone from out of town, from another team or a different sport altogether to bring a different mindset to the organization.   I hope they improve the experience for those  of you that do support the team as STH's.   

The bolded raises an interesting question:  what kind of severance are they getting?

The article in the Athletic quotes LQ as saying:

Quote

“The way they’ve been treated, you don’t take a 32-year employee and say goodbye and give him two weeks of health insurance – not in the middle of a pandemic,” Quinn said. “You just don’t do that. I just don’t get it.

The implication is that they got zero severance, which I have a hard time believing. 

It seems much more likely that they got a normal severance package -- i.e. something like the 6 months that @Broken Ankles mentions.  They probably need to pay for COBRA coverage, but that is no different from the situation of pretty much everyone else who gets laid off.

Vogl should've figured this out and included it in his article.

 

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Where are these "normal" severance packages coming from?  It's been awhile since any company in my field offered that kind of severance, and if it were a performance related decision as assumed here, severance wasn't in play anywhere I've been employed.

Given what we've been hearing, I don't know how you assume PSE was on the generous side of industry standard right now.  If they are in controlling costs mode, I would imagine soft skills costs would be among the first to get cut.

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10 minutes ago, Weave said:

Where are these "normal" severance packages coming from?  It's been awhile since any company in my field offered that kind of severance, and if it were a performance related decision as assumed here, severance wasn't in play anywhere I've been employed.

Given what we've been hearing, I don't know how you assume PSE was on the generous side of industry standard right now.  If they are in controlling costs mode, I would imagine soft skills costs would be among the first to get cut.

Well, I think "what we've been hearing" has been 90% speculation.  I also think that since LQ mentioned health insurance specifically but not severance, it's possible-to-likely that this was a deliberate choice of words -- i.e. that he wanted to paint TP in a bad light, so he omitted mentioning severance.

Bottom line IMHO is that in the absence of facts I prefer not to assume that people are acting in an avaricious manner.

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12 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

Bottom line IMHO is that in the absence of facts I prefer not to assume that people are acting in an avaricious manner.

And others prefer to assume they are and thus we address to nut of much political discussion.

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