Report: NHL to potentially return in North Dakota in August

[SABRES 0311]

2 hours ago, Neo said:

Guilty as charged.   Well, not quite charged.  Guilty as observed.

My swan song for this thread ...  From time to time we directly, or indirectly, refer to what we believe to be the privilege of others while posting on SabreSpace.  Risky, reckless, stuff.  There are 7 billion people on the planet.   With no math or science backing me, I’d guess that if SabreSpace is part of your regular routine, you’re more priviliged than 90% of the world.   Further with my construct, you’re at least as privileged as 70% of the remaining 10%.  Now, take human history into account, and I believe we’re all 1% ers.   To the extent, and in the sense, that privilege is a burden (I believe it is), it’s a wonder any of us can get out of bed.  So, yeah, I see the world as pretty good, which interferes not with seeing that which must get better.

I think you are better at articulation of thoughts than I am. I just thought we were talking about playing some hockey. 

[Radar]

On 4/7/2020 at 8:16 PM, Neo said:

Well, yes.    Not recognizing that class struggle is real would be as debilitating and dangerous as seeing it everywhere.  Fortunately, blindness of the former is an illness.  Unfortunately, ubiquity of the latter is a pandemic.   Somewhere in between is sanity and rational discourse.

Unfortunately in our country there seems very little sanity and rational discourse now. 

[PASabreFan]

22 hours ago, Neo said:

Guilty as charged.   Well, not quite charged.  Guilty as observed.

My swan song for this thread ...  From time to time we directly, or indirectly, refer to what we believe to be the privilege of others while posting on SabreSpace.  Risky, reckless, stuff.  There are 7 billion people on the planet.   With no math or science backing me, I’d guess that if SabreSpace is part of your regular routine, you’re more priviliged than 90% of the world.   Further with my construct, you’re at least as privileged as 70% of the remaining 10%.  Now, take human history into account, and I believe we’re all 1% ers.   To the extent, and in the sense, that privilege is a burden (I believe it is), it’s a wonder any of us can get out of bed.  So, yeah, I see the world as pretty good, which interferes not with seeing that which must get better.

Did you advise the Mitt Romney campaign? Corporations Are People has nothing on We're All The 1%!

It might be useful to remind you and others what set you off in the first place. I criticized big business like the airlines needing a bailout literally days into an albeit precipitous drop in revenues, and the NHL, with 31 filthy rich owners, feeling the need to send their players from stricken large cities into the heartland in the midst of a pandemic so a hockey season could be completed and some money could come in. Neither entity, apparently, could prepare for a rainy day, or pull themselves up by their bootstraps, or be rugged and self-sufficient — the kind of junk the wealthy class talks about ALL THE TIME while the lobby the government to reduce the social safety net.

I don't know why you'd have a problem with any of that, or why you'd resort to a strawman argument ("class warfare" "hey, you could be living in Botswana"). You're better than that.

[#freejame]

12 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Did you advise the Mitt Romney campaign? Corporations Are People has nothing on We're All The 1%!

It might be useful to remind you and others what set you off in the first place. I criticized big business like the airlines needing a bailout literally days into an albeit precipitous drop in revenues, and the NHL, with 31 filthy rich owners, feeling the need to send their players from stricken large cities into the heartland in the midst of a pandemic so a hockey season could be completed and some money could come in. Neither entity, apparently, could prepare for a rainy day, or pull themselves up by their bootstraps, or be rugged and self-sufficient — the kind of junk the wealthy class talks about ALL THE TIME while the lobby the government to reduce the social safety net.

I don't know why you'd have a problem with any of that, or why you'd resort to a strawman argument ("class warfare" "hey, you could be living in Botswana"). You're better than that.

Not to get to into it, just a friendly reminder to all involved that bailouts =/= free market capitalism and the fact that corporations (who are people by their very nature) have been bailed out in the past creates a belief in their mind that an internal safety net is not necessary when they have one in Uncle Sam. 

[nfreeman]

26 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Did you advise the Mitt Romney campaign? Corporations Are People has nothing on We're All The 1%!

It might be useful to remind you and others what set you off in the first place. I criticized big business like the airlines needing a bailout literally days into an albeit precipitous drop in revenues, and the NHL, with 31 filthy rich owners, feeling the need to send their players from stricken large cities into the heartland in the midst of a pandemic so a hockey season could be completed and some money could come in. Neither entity, apparently, could prepare for a rainy day, or pull themselves up by their bootstraps, or be rugged and self-sufficient — the kind of junk the wealthy class talks about ALL THE TIME while the lobby the government to reduce the social safety net.

I don't know why you'd have a problem with any of that, or why you'd resort to a strawman argument ("class warfare" "hey, you could be living in Botswana"). You're better than that.

Again:  the players will be 100% involved in the decision as to whether or not to play, and they will get 50% of the money.  This is about the players as much as it is about the owners -- not to mention the fans, who are/will be dying for some hockey to watch.

[Weave]

10 minutes ago, #freejame said:

the fact that corporations (who are people by their very nature)

I know the Supreme Court has ruled this, but no.  Corporations are government created entities for the purpose of liability protection. They are not people.  
 

Ill save any further diatribe on my part for the politics club if you are so inclined.

[PASabreFan]

47 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Again:  the players will be 100% involved in the decision as to whether or not to play, and they will get 50% of the money.  This is about the players as much as it is about the owners -- not to mention the fans, who are/will be dying for some hockey to watch.

It doesn't change my argument that much. It's still an unnecessary money grab by the league and such a bad look for them. Not sure what your point is re: players. Do you think they need the money? As for the last sentence, not me. You couldn't pay me to watch a game right now, and as for August — yuck. October sounds awesome though. Normalcy.

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

It doesn't change my argument that much. It's still an unnecessary money grab by the league and such a bad look for them. Not sure what your point is re: players. Do you think they need the money? As for the last sentence, not me. You couldn't pay me to watch a game right now, and as for August — yuck. October sounds awesome though. Normalcy.

Why wouldn't you watch; I can't imagine it is good for anyone psychologically to continuously watch the news and see everything burning constantly.

I wouldn't want fans in the stands but if they can play games I'd be all for it. The longer we hide in our homes the worse economically and mentally scarred society will become.   

[nfreeman]

5 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It doesn't change my argument that much. It's still an unnecessary money grab by the league and such a bad look for them. Not sure what your point is re: players. Do you think they need the money? As for the last sentence, not me. You couldn't pay me to watch a game right now, and as for August — yuck. October sounds awesome though. Normalcy.

The point is that you are railing against "filthy rich owners" like they are the ones forcing this to happen here, when the reality is that if it happens, it will be because all 3 constituencies -- owners, players and fans -- want it to happen.  And while you may not want to watch hockey in August, I think you'll be in a small minority within the hockey fan population.

[PASabreFan]

3 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

The point is that you are railing against "filthy rich owners" like they are the ones forcing this to happen here, when the reality is that if it happens, it will be because all 3 constituencies -- owners, players and fans -- want it to happen.  And while you may not want to watch hockey in August, I think you'll be in a small minority within the hockey fan population.

Got ya. I still don't think it changes my argument. Add "and players" to "owners."

I don't see how the league determined that fans want it to happen. I think we're all experiencing this pandemic in different ways. Hockey is the last thing on my mind. And always is in August in a good year.

[shrader]

13 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It doesn't change my argument that much. It's still an unnecessary money grab by the league and such a bad look for them. Not sure what your point is re: players. Do you think they need the money? As for the last sentence, not me. You couldn't pay me to watch a game right now, and as for August — yuck. October sounds awesome though. Normalcy.

Why is it only a money grab for them when every other business in the country is also trying to figure out how to restart?  Now I know you're going to say because they're rich, but where do we draw the line on who's a money grubber and who isn't?  The real fun begins when we realize that this imaginary line may very well put Toronto on one side and Ottawa on the other.

[Neo]

Swan song promise, reneged.   I am unreliable and unrepentant, a miserable combination.

I have to ask you all to stop using straw man “class warfare” arguments when responding to our friend when he posts about:

1).  “31 filthy rich owners, feeling the need to send their players from stricken large cities into the heartland in the midst of a pandemic so a hockey season could be completed and some money could come in”, and;

2). “big business”, and;

3). “players [who don’t] need the money”, and;

4).  “the kind of junk the wealthy class talks about ALL THE TIME”.

Class warfare, you see, has nothing to do with his complaint.   It’s bad financial planning and liquidity management that he’s upset with.  He told me, a couple of hours ago, above.  I repeat, it’s not class inequity.   I make the same error you do when I see his posts.  Ugh, how can I be so dumb?!

I am not better than what I wrote, as he suggested.  With him, “we are the sum of our actions, and therefore our habits make all the difference.”

I have the food, shelter, education, health, equipment, time and freedom to post nearly 5,000 times on a HOCKEY BLOG dedicated to a small market team in a second tier sports league provided to me for free by a man I’ve never met.  I am privileged.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Neo

[Neo]

1), above, is among my favorites of all time.   Did anyone else see Steinbeck, Fonda or the Joads?

[PASabreFan]

20 minutes ago, Neo said:

Swan song promise, reneged.   I am unreliable and unrepentant, a miserable combination.

I have to ask you all to stop using straw man “class warfare” arguments when responding to our friend when he posts about:

1).  “31 filthy rich owners, feeling the need to send their players from stricken large cities into the heartland in the midst of a pandemic so a hockey season could be completed and some money could come in”, and;

2). “big business”, and;

3). “players [who don’t] need the money”, and;

4).  “the kind of junk the wealthy class talks about ALL THE TIME”.

Class warfare, you see, has nothing to do with his complaint.   It’s bad financial planning and liquidity management that he’s upset with.  He told me, a couple of hours ago, above.  I repeat, it’s not class inequity.   I make the same error you do when I see his posts.  Ugh, how can I be so dumb?!

I am not better than what I wrote, as he suggested.  With him, “we are the sum of our actions, and therefore our habits make all the difference.”

I have the food, shelter, education, health, equipment, time and freedom to post nearly 5,000 times on a HOCKEY BLOG dedicated to a small market team in a second tier sports league provided to me for free by a man I’ve never met.  I am privileged.

Nothing is free. He pays the bills and we provide the content. It's an interesting arrangement.

I made the best pancakes of my life this morning. You know what the key ingredient turned out to be? Vinegar.

The man who removes a mountain begins by carrying away small stones.

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

Why is it only a money grab for them when every other business in the country is also trying to figure out how to restart?  Now I know you're going to say because they're rich, but where do we draw the line on who's a money grubber and who isn't?  The real fun begins when we realize that this imaginary line may very well put Toronto on one side and Ottawa on the other.

We could start with those lists of essential businesses. A professional sporting event wouldn't even be legal right now in most places in this country without a waiver.

6 minutes ago, Neo said:

1), above, is among my favorites of all time.   Did anyone else see Steinbeck, Fonda or the Joads?

Thank you. On Golden Pond was good.

[inkman]

Since this discussion seems so fun, I'll chime in.  The NHL, along with any other company, looks like some combination of the Grim Reaper, Ebenezer Scrooge and OSP for even thinking let alone discussing finishing their current season soley for a cash grab.  Get the temperature of the room. People are dying.  Chill on the let's get the band back together nonsense. 

And if they really are going to plan something like this, do it like I imagine, in the cover of secrecy wearing cloaks in a candlelit stone built basement sacrificing puck bunnies to please the hockey gods. 

27 minutes ago, Neo said:

Swan song promise, reneged.   I am unreliable and unrepentant, a miserable combination.

I have to ask you all to stop using straw man “class warfare” arguments when responding to our friend when he posts about:

1).  “31 filthy rich owners, feeling the need to send their players from stricken large cities into the heartland in the midst of a pandemic so a hockey season could be completed and some money could come in”, and;

2). “big business”, and;

3). “players [who don’t] need the money”, and;

4).  “the kind of junk the wealthy class talks about ALL THE TIME”.

Class warfare, you see, has nothing to do with his complaint.   It’s bad financial planning and liquidity management that he’s upset with.  He told me, a couple of hours ago, above.  I repeat, it’s not class inequity.   I make the same error you do when I see his posts.  Ugh, how can I be so dumb?!

I am not better than what I wrote, as he suggested.  With him, “we are the sum of our actions, and therefore our habits make all the difference.”

I have the food, shelter, education, health, equipment, time and freedom to post nearly 5,000 times on a HOCKEY BLOG dedicated to a small market team in a second tier sports league provided to me for free by a man I’ve never met.  I am privileged.

Scott's not that cool.  ?

[PASabreFan]

Reinforcements. Thank God. Neo has been rag-dolling me like I'm Claude Lemieux.

[Neo]

3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Reinforcements. Thank God. Neo has been rag-dolling me like I'm Claude Lemieux.

You had me at “hello.”

[Weave]

15 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Reinforcements. Thank God. Neo has been rag-dolling me like I'm Claude Lemieux.

Even Lemieux's team mates didn't stand up for Lemieux.

For the record, I'm on your side with the idea that businesses should have the same rainy day expectations as Joe Public.

[Ogre]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

For the record, I'm on your side with the idea that businesses should have the same rainy day expectations as Joe Public

 It’s almost like Joe is in a different, unequal class.

[#freejame]

44 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

We could start with those lists of essential businesses. A professional sporting event wouldn't even be legal right now in most places in this country without a waiver.

Thank you. On Golden Pond was good.

I would love to see the bolded be challenged in court. However, it’s highly unlikely it will be as Major League Baseball will have the backing of Congress to start its season sometime next month (thank god)

24 minutes ago, Weave said:

Even Lemieux's team mates didn't stand up for Lemieux.

For the record, I'm on your side with the idea that businesses should have the same rainy day expectations as Joe Public.

As they should. Has anyone disagreed with this because I have not seen it if that’s the case. However, the precedence has been set that this does not need to be the case. Corporate welfare for all! Hooray! Isn’t that what Joe Public pays outlandish taxes for?

[Doohickie]

On 4/7/2020 at 9:11 AM, Theana745 said:

No not directly. I'm just thinking the league will consider price raises on gamecenter and other modalities to make up for the lack of in door revenue. Can stations renegotiate contracts with the league? At some point, and I don't know when, wouldn't they lose more money trying to hold the playoffs for 1/20 of the profit, rather than just waiting till next year.

If you're talking about the playoffs for the current season, forget it.  Contracts are set (including Center Ice/NHL.tv) for the year, and most playoff games are on cable channels anyway.  For next season I wouldn't be surprised to see prices for game video go up though.

[Theana745]

4 hours ago, Doohickie said:

If you're talking about the playoffs for the current season, forget it.  Contracts are set (including Center Ice/NHL.tv) for the year, and most playoff games are on cable channels anyway.  For next season I wouldn't be surprised to see prices for game video go up though.

Noted. Good news is that it will only be a matter of time before league starts up again (may). US is already releasing plans for reopening. Not an expect, but looks like you just have to follow some basic precautions for a bit, then you go through phases. My prediction is that teams are going to start gearing up very shortly. Only thing is that we have to find a publicly acceptable way to obtain a large amount of tests for everyone that is involved in restarting (players, bosses, cleaning crews etc.)

Edited April 16, 2020 by Theana745

[Eleven]

15 minutes ago, Theana745 said:

Noted. Good news is that it will only be a matter of time before league starts up again (may). US is already releasing plans for reopening. Not an expect, but looks like you just have to follow some basic precautions for a bit, then you go through phases. My prediction is that teams are going to start gearing up very shortly. Only thing is that we have to find a publicly acceptable way to obtain a large amount of tests for everyone that is involved in restarting (players, bosses, cleaning crews etc.)

Well, three teams are located in a state (this one) that just extended its shutdown to May 15, three more are in a state that probably isn't opening soon (California), and seven are located in a country that isn't going to reopen its border with the US, so I don't see it happening in May.

 

EDIT:  Did someone just edit the thread title to include "in August"?  That wasn't there before.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Eleven

[Theana745]

9 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Well, three teams are located in a state (this one) that just extended its shutdown to May 15, three more are in a state that probably isn't opening soon (California), and seven are located in a country that isn't going to reopen its border with the US, so I don't see it happening in May.

I think you can still starting bringing people back in that timeframe, quarantine them for 14 day, have them get tested, and bring them to a central location to start playing, preferably in a state that has looser restrictions (N. Dakota). This is with continued weakly testing. May/June would be the bring back month, and July/August teams could resume. The biggest issues is ensuring everyone stays put in that location for a significant bit of time. Pretty sure there's some less than desirable personalities in organizations, you would have to find way to control them

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Theana745