Why is Botterill still GM?

[nfreeman]

I'd like to revisit the key question of this thread.

When the season was halted, the Sabres had 68 pts in 69 games, which extrapolates to under 81 pts.  So that's essentially an 80-point season, in JB's 3rd season after taking over a 78-point team.

The Sabres had also, before surprisingly winning their final game of the season vs Washington, lost 6 in a row to bang in the final nail in the coffin of their weak playoff hopes.  I re-read a number of posts after that 6th loss and there was close to a consensus here that JB was gone and RK probably was too.

In addition to the poor on-ice results for the 3rd year of of 3 during the JB era, the season saw a number of embarrassing moments for which JB is fairly accountable:  glitches during the 50th anniversary celebrations, multiple players demanding to be traded, articles in national hockey media about organizational dysfunction, trading Scandella for a 4th and seeing him flipped for a 2nd and a 4th a few weeks later.

And now another one:  with the playoffs expanded to 24 teams, the Sabres still can't make it.  In JB's 3rd year, they still aren't better than 3rd-worst in a 16-team conference.

I have to think that once the NHL officially announces the end of the season and the playoff plan, TP is going to sit down, soberly evaluate the situation and cut him loose.

 

[Gatorman0519]

One only has to look at what’s going on at One Bills Drive to see a stark difference in the same amount of time. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

10 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

One only has to look at what’s going on at One Bills Drive to see a stark difference in the same amount of time. 

I don't see it....who hired all management for both teams? The owners are only 50/50 in hiring. If they fire JB/RK, that percentage will change one way or the other. But their success at OBD means nothing. 

Edit: I said 50/50 but if you count Darcy/Lindy and Murray/Nolan/Rolston/Bylsma, then it's much worse. OBD only looks more like luck rather than proof of anything.

Edited May 24, 2020 by MakeSabresGrr8Again
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[LGR4GM]

What's the highest Buffalo has finished in the overall standings under botterill?

[dudacek]

He took over a team that was 27th

He guided them to 31st, 27th and 25th

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

He took over a team that was 27th

He guided them to 31st, 27th and 25th

The 31st was with an evaluation year of core players he was left by the previous regime. He then got rid of "what's his name" who was a key piece of that core. Slight improvements over the next couple years after not replacing "you know who".

In order to take that next and bigger step, that position needs to be filled adequately now. Botts "should" be in a position to do that with no excuses.

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

The 31st was with an evaluation year of core players he was left by the previous regime. He then got rid of "what's his name" who was a key piece of that core. Slight improvements over the next couple years after not replacing "you know who".

In order to take that next and bigger step, that position needs to be filled adequately now. Botts "should" be in a position to do that with no excuses.

He's had "no excuse" for 2 years, can't wait to hear what the excuse is next offseason. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by LGR4GM

[WildCard]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

He took over a team that was 27th

He guided them to 31st, 27th and 25th

Can't wait to finish 19th in 3 years 

[PASabreFan]

21 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I'd like to revisit the key question of this thread.

When the season was halted, the Sabres had 68 pts in 69 games, which extrapolates to under 81 pts.  So that's essentially an 80-point season, in JB's 3rd season after taking over a 78-point team.

The Sabres had also, before surprisingly winning their final game of the season vs Washington, lost 6 in a row to bang in the final nail in the coffin of their weak playoff hopes.  I re-read a number of posts after that 6th loss and there was close to a consensus here that JB was gone and RK probably was too.

In addition to the poor on-ice results for the 3rd year of of 3 during the JB era, the season saw a number of embarrassing moments for which JB is fairly accountable:  glitches during the 50th anniversary celebrations, multiple players demanding to be traded, articles in national hockey media about organizational dysfunction, trading Scandella for a 4th and seeing him flipped for a 2nd and a 4th a few weeks later.

And now another one:  with the playoffs expanded to 24 teams, the Sabres still can't make it.  In JB's 3rd year, they still aren't better than 3rd-worst in a 16-team conference.

I have to think that once the NHL officially announces the end of the season and the playoff plan, TP is going to sit down, soberly evaluate the situation and cut him loose.

I think I disagree with your conclusion, although I wouldn't be surprised. Some things that argue against it would be the recent story about belt-tightening at PSE (I believe Jason has term left on his contract — is Terry going to be willing to eat more money?); on that note, the higher cost of acquiring this time an established hockey figure; the impracticality of hiring a new GM during a pandemic (no sit down interview?); Terry being unwilling to face the music if he has to fire someone he was directly responsible for hiring (he distanced himself from the Murray hiring); most importantly the likelihood that the entire Pegula clan is hunkered down deep in the guava mines of Guatemala in a custom constructed billion-dollar bunker. Or guano. I also wonder if the Rooney quote Terry cited in his opening presser will finally kick in. "Panic doesn't seem to be working."

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

The 31st was with an evaluation year of core players he was left by the previous regime. He then got rid of "what's his name" who was a key piece of that core. Slight improvements over the next couple years after not replacing "you know who".

In order to take that next and bigger step, that position needs to be filled adequately now. Botts "should" be in a position to do that with no excuses.

Tl:dr- Botts got rid of a unicorn and put himself in a position where he need to find another unicorn.

If Botts traded Jack straight up for Milan Lucic would that be enough to get his defenders to admit that he sucks and needs to go?

Edited May 25, 2020 by sabremike

[Weave]

2 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

The 31st was with an evaluation year of core players he was left by the previous regime. He then got rid of "what's his name" who was a key piece of that core. Slight improvements over the next couple years after not replacing "you know who".

In order to take that next and bigger step, that position needs to be filled adequately now. Botts "should" be in a position to do that with no excuses.

Any GM that needed an evaluation year for that group of fringe NHL'ers is an unqualified GM.  The "evaluation year" was wholly unneeded and an excuse to buy time.

Someday maybe this fanbase will demand winning "today".

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, WildCard said:

Can't wait to finish 19th in 3 years 

You are being generous: you are assuming improvement.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I think I disagree with your conclusion, although I wouldn't be surprised. Some things that argue against it would be the recent story about belt-tightening at PSE (I believe Jason has term left on his contract — is Terry going to be willing to eat more money?); on that note, the higher cost of acquiring this time an established hockey figure; the impracticality of hiring a new GM during a pandemic (no sit down interview?); Terry being unwilling to face the music if he has to fire someone he was directly responsible for hiring (he distanced himself from the Murray hiring); most importantly the likelihood that the entire Pegula clan is hunkered down deep in the guava mines of Guatemala in a custom constructed billion-dollar bunker. Or guano. I also wonder if the Rooney quote Terry cited in his opening presser will finally kick in. "Panic doesn't seem to be working."

I can't dispute that there is some wishful thinking in my conclusion.  You are at least 49% likely to be right here, maybe closer to 79%, and I agree with most of your reasoning.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

2 hours ago, sabremike said:

Tl:dr- Botts got rid of a unicorn and put himself in a position where he need to find another unicorn.

If Botts traded Jack straight up for Milan Lucic would that be enough to get his defenders to admit that he sucks and needs to go?

I think you quoted the wrong person with your argument.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Any GM that needed an evaluation year for that group of fringe NHL'ers is an unqualified GM.  The "evaluation year" was wholly unneeded and an excuse to buy time.

Someday maybe this fanbase will demand winning "today".

Personally, I wanted winning about 7years ago.

Bolded...first time I've seen anyone on here refer to Jack, ROR, Sam etc fringe players.

[Weave]

14 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Personally, I wanted winning about 7years ago.

Bolded...first time I've seen anyone on here refer to Jack, ROR, Sam etc fringe players.

Well, if that isn't focusing on the trees and not seeing the forest, I don't know what is.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

13 minutes ago, Weave said:

Well, if that isn't focusing on the trees and not seeing the forest, I don't know what is.

Maybe we all need to step back and evaluate, lol.

Your 1st quote of my post was like totally ignoring the trees and forest just to make claim of the city smog.

I only stated what JBott himself said. The references to the demolishion man were a way of not using that name which almost always causes problems. It was done jokingly.

I wasn't trying to defend nor condemn anyone (hence, not creating the smog). I'm at the point where if he's allowed to stay on longer that's fine but, he better make good of that opportunity. If he's canned tomorrow so be it.

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Maybe we all need to step back and evaluate, lol.

Your 1st quote of my post was like totally ignoring the trees and forest just to make claim of the city smog.

I only stated what JBott himself said. The references to the demolishion man were a way of not using that name which almost always causes problems. It was done jokingly.

I wasn't trying to defend nor condemn anyone (hence, not creating the smog). I'm at the point where if he's allowed to stay on longer that's fine but, he better make good of that opportunity. If he's canned tomorrow so be it.

It's not OK because doing so is yet another act of malfeasance by our stupid and incompetent owners. It's another expression of their complete and utter contempt for the fans of this team. 

[Weave]

2 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Maybe we all need to step back and evaluate, lol.

Your 1st quote of my post was like totally ignoring the trees and forest just to make claim of the city smog.

I only stated what JBott himself said. The references to the demolishion man were a way of not using that name which almost always causes problems. It was done jokingly.

I wasn't trying to defend nor condemn anyone (hence, not creating the smog). I'm at the point where if he's allowed to stay on longer that's fine but, he better make good of that opportunity. If he's canned tomorrow so be it.

My first was in response to a very specific sentence in the post that I quoted.  It wasn't directed at any fans (or you).  It was a statement of my opinion in general.  An evaluation wasn't necessary and was a play by Botts to buy another season, regardless  of the kids we had recently rafted.

 

[nfreeman]

57 minutes ago, sabremike said:

It's not OK because doing so is yet another act of malfeasance by our stupid and incompetent owners. It's another expression of their complete and utter contempt for the fans of this team. 

This seems a bit overstated, innit?

[JohnRobertEichel]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

He took over a team that was 27th

He guided them to 31st, 27th and 25th

Whoa there!! Slow down, Mr. Botterill. Rome wasn't built in a day. We're pacing to make the playoffs for 2022-23 and win the Presidents' Trophy for 2027-28. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

My first was in response to a very specific sentence in the post that I quoted.  It wasn't directed at any fans (or you).  It was a statement of my opinion in general.  An evaluation wasn't necessary and was a play by Botts to buy another season, regardless  of the kids we had recently rafted.

 

We're good?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, sabremike said:

It's not OK because doing so is yet another act of malfeasance by our stupid and incompetent owners. It's another expression of their complete and utter contempt for the fans of this team. 

Some people don't feel the same. They say "just look at the Bills".

[sabremike]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

This seems a bit overstated, innit?

They are literally the least successful NHL owners of the post 1991 era (Atlanta has an argument but I don't think they had a single ownership group that lasted 9 consecutive seasons). When the team misses the playoffs yet again next season because the Pegulas absolutely refuse to ever learn from their endless mistakes and midblowing terrible decisions the Sabres will have officially become the single worst franchise in the modern history of the sport. 10 seasons, no playoffs, no season even close. There is sadly a part of me that wouldn't mind seeing the Bills go 1-15 this season so that maybe people will finally give them the raking over the coals they richly deserve for turning what was once one of the most proud and respected franchises in the league (before they took over the Sabres had something like the 3rd best overall record of all time behind the Habs and Flyers) and turned them into a sad sack dumpster fire laughingstock. This franchise has not even played a single meaningful or important game of any kind in 9 years. To quote Richard Pryor: " How long? How long must this ***** go on???".

[dudacek]

8 hours ago, sabremike said:

They are literally the least successful NHL owners of the post 1991 era (Atlanta has an argument but I don't think they had a single ownership group that lasted 9 consecutive seasons). When the team misses the playoffs yet again next season because the Pegulas absolutely refuse to ever learn from their endless mistakes and midblowing terrible decisions the Sabres will have officially become the single worst franchise in the modern history of the sport. 10 seasons, no playoffs, no season even close. There is sadly a part of me that wouldn't mind seeing the Bills go 1-15 this season so that maybe people will finally give them the raking over the coals they richly deserve for turning what was once one of the most proud and respected franchises in the league (before they took over the Sabres had something like the 3rd best overall record of all time behind the Habs and Flyers) and turned them into a sad sack dumpster fire laughingstock. This franchise has not even played a single meaningful or important game of any kind in 9 years. To quote Richard Pryor: " How long? How long must this ***** go on???".

Do you feel like you are a voice in the wilderness?

And what would this raking consist of?