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9 hours ago, #freejame said:

This issue is, and I am not saying this to downplay Covid, is that there are many like me who have gotten very sick from the actual flu and did not get sick from Covid. Not everyone can or is willing to wrap their head around that. Who has ever heard of someone being asymptotic for the flu? 

My response is this:  While I acknowledge your sample of one, this past year has been the best year for flu in decades.  Even with guidelines for social distancing, mask wearing and hand washing that many people have ignored, the incidence of flu has nevertheless been way down.  Yet Covid managed to kill a half million Americans in that environment... more than ten times the average flu deaths each year.  Flu deserves respect as a viral killer, but Covid is literally an order of magnitude worse.

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2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

So I get my first shot of mutant juice with the Bill Gates tracking chip tracer in the morning.

It’s pretty cool, I get emails from Microsoft saying Bless You Ten Seconds before I sneeze 

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33 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

My response is this:  While I acknowledge your sample of one, this past year has been the best year for flu in decades.  Even with guidelines for social distancing, mask wearing and hand washing that many people have ignored, the incidence of flu has nevertheless been way down.  Yet Covid managed to kill a half million Americans in that environment... more than ten times the average flu deaths each year.  Flu deserves respect as a viral killer, but Covid is literally an order of magnitude worse.

One of the theories behind this is the yearly influenza outbreaks start in the Southern Hemisphere. The CDC watches Australia in particular To determine how effective the flu vaccination for the year will be. 
 

With distancing and the good job that many of the countries in the southern hemisphere did in mitigating Covid, coupled with the fact there has been minimal international travel particularly from the southern hemisphere this leads researchers  to believe this is the primary reason why cases of influenza having so minuscule this year. 
 

We also have proven effective anti virals against influenza particularly if started in the first 48 hours. So far no treatments for Covid that have proven as effective. 

11 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

Years ago i didn't get the flu shot and some creep at work had a meeting with me and at the end of the meeting she said, man I feel sick like the flu.

The next day i was as sick as i have been in my life. 103 fever, the dr said my blood pressure was really low. She wanted to call an ambulance to bring me to the hospital. i refused because I didn't have good insurance and would be responsible for around 10k out of pocket. 

She gave me the flu medicine and after about 7 days of constant sleep, i finally felt better. Tylenol broke my fever after the 3rd day. 

At the time, i didn't know that the flu kiled people each year. Had i known, i might have went to the hospital. 

After that I became a germaphobe and said if people are sickly to stay away. i was so mad at that creep at work for not telling me she was sick. We could have done the meeting as a phone call.  I made sure to get the flu shot this year. I hadn't been around anyone so i suspected my immune system was bad. I figured the flu shot would give me a little boost

You were lucky, it sounds like you were septic from the flu. 

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14 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

We also have proven effective anti virals against influenza particularly if started in the first 48 hours. So far no treatments for Covid that have proven as effective. 

I can see a future where Covid is no more invasive than the Flu, but currently we are still learning of the most effective treatments and most people have very green immune systems with respect to Covid.  Maybe I'm a fool for playing it so safe, but for something like this I'd much rather err on the side of looking foolish.  There's plenty of time to be cavalier about it once science has gotten the virus under control.

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5 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I can see a future where Covid is no more invasive than the Flu, but currently we are still learning of the most effective treatments and most people have very green immune systems with respect to Covid.  Maybe I'm a fool for playing it so safe, but for something like this I'd much rather err on the side of looking foolish.  There's plenty of time to be cavalier about it once science has gotten the virus under control.

Your not being foolish. I have been fully vaccinated since January 7th and I still wear a N95, with a surgical mask and goggles when seeing non Covid Patients. I still follow all precautions outside the hospital as well. 

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i have my second dose of the vaccine on the 14th of march. i am planning on seeing my family for the first time in 1 year in april, which is 3 weeks after my 2nd shot.

 

my mother refuses to get the vaccine at this point. Is there any risk to me bringing the vaccine to her after i am fully vaccinated? i read the FDA is saying that you dont need to quarantine if you are around someone with covid if you are fully vaccinated if you arent showing symptoms. 

 

is there any real risk to seeing my mother if i am fully vaccinated? i dont plan on being around people with covid, but i just wanted to see what the risks are?

 i really cant never see my mother again 

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46 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

i have my second dose of the vaccine on the 14th of march. i am planning on seeing my family for the first time in 1 year in april, which is 3 weeks after my 2nd shot.

 

my mother refuses to get the vaccine at this point. Is there any risk to me bringing the vaccine to her after i am fully vaccinated? i read the FDA is saying that you dont need to quarantine if you are around someone with covid if you are fully vaccinated if you arent showing symptoms. 

 

is there any real risk to seeing my mother if i am fully vaccinated? i dont plan on being around people with covid, but i just wanted to see what the risks are?

 i really cant never see my mother again 

Early Data is showing minimal risk for asymptomatic transmission from fully vaccinated people. 
 

That being said, there isn’t enough data to draw conclusions one way or the other. 
 

You should be ok, but the risk is not zero. 
 

What’s You Mom’s Reasoning for not getting the shot, if you don’t mind me asking? 

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7 hours ago, JujuFish said:

No, no, no. You're misspelling it. Googol.  It's what you call the number 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. Or you could call that 10 duotrigintillion.

10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 never heard of it

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10 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I read your username as "Dr. Irksome" and I thought to myself... spot on, that.

I prefer Dr. N. Kirishone

9 hours ago, Brawndo said:

It’s pretty cool, I get emails from Microsoft saying Bless You Ten Seconds before I sneeze 

Serves you right.

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8 hours ago, Brawndo said:


 

What’s You Mom’s Reasoning for not getting the shot, if you don’t mind me asking? 

i wish i knew. She is 71 years old, and in not great health. She had lung cancer years ago, which was removed by removing half of one of her lungs. everyone in the family tells her she should get it, but she wont. 

she said she in unsure of any long term effects, but not to sound harsh, but she is 71 and not in great health.   

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On 2/26/2021 at 9:08 AM, Brawndo said:

They are not sure yet, they are studying the antibody titers on the original study participants. Pfizer is studying whether or not a third dose maybe necessary. I imagine the Corona Vaccine will become annual similar to the flu vaccine. 

But no one really calls it the flu vaccine anymore right?  It's the flu shot because it hopefully prevents the strains they believe would be dominant that particular year. Unlike a vaccine that would actually prevent it right?  With all the variants in COVID, will we end up in that scenario?  I know we don't know yet, but I keep waiting for them to find a variant that the current vaccines don't work against.

22 hours ago, #freejame said:

This issue is, and I am not saying this to downplay Covid, is that there are many like me who have gotten very sick from the actual flu and did not get sick from Covid. Not everyone can or is willing to wrap their head around that. Who has ever heard of someone being asymptotic for the flu? 

Let's be honest.  If you are asymptomatic how would you ever know you had anything? 

12 hours ago, Doohickie said:

My response is this:  While I acknowledge your sample of one, this past year has been the best year for flu in decades.  Even with guidelines for social distancing, mask wearing and hand washing that many people have ignored, the incidence of flu has nevertheless been way down.  Yet Covid managed to kill a half million Americans in that environment... more than ten times the average flu deaths each year.  Flu deserves respect as a viral killer, but Covid is literally an order of magnitude worse.

I am curious, and I am asking this not to dismiss your point but for understanding it better, have more people been infected with COVID this year than are normally infected with influenza in a given year?  Or, what I am asking is that while you are saying 10 times the flu deaths is it also a 10x death rate or just quantity of deaths?

I stopped looking at statistics a long time ago.  I knew the rate was higher, but expected it to go down as more people were infected with COVID.

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I considered not posting about this in the event someone here is going through a similar situation (or has gone through it).  I don't want to discourage anyone from feeling optimistic as each scenario is different but it doesn't look favorable for my mother.  She's been on a ventilator for 20 days now.  Although nothing appears to be getting worse nothing appears to be getting better either.  I suppose that should likely be considered a win but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it.  The worst part is the heartbreaking emotion of not being able to comfort a person in their time of need who has comforted you your entire life.  If I've taken anything away from this it's not to underestimate what we're up against.  I haven't had time (or the heart) to read posts here in a while but for anyone who is going through this or already has stay strong and hopefully everything works out.  If you've lost someone I'm sorry, stay strong and I hope you find peace.

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1 hour ago, Indabuff said:

I considered not posting about this in the event someone here is going through a similar situation (or has gone through it).  I don't want to discourage anyone from feeling optimistic as each scenario is different but it doesn't look favorable for my mother.  She's been on a ventilator for 20 days now.  Although nothing appears to be getting worse nothing appears to be getting better either.  I suppose that should likely be considered a win but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it.  The worst part is the heartbreaking emotion of not being able to comfort a person in their time of need who has comforted you your entire life.  If I've taken anything away from this it's not to underestimate what we're up against.  I haven't had time (or the heart) to read posts here in a while but for anyone who is going through this or already has stay strong and hopefully everything works out.  If you've lost someone I'm sorry, stay strong and I hope you find peace.

Sorry to hear this.   Hoping for the best for your mother 🙏.  Stay strong, friend.

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On 2/27/2021 at 9:30 AM, LTS said:

But no one really calls it the flu vaccine anymore right?  It's the flu shot because it hopefully prevents the strains they believe would be dominant that particular year. Unlike a vaccine that would actually prevent it right?  With all the variants in COVID, will we end up in that scenario?  I know we don't know yet, but I keep waiting for them to find a variant that the current vaccines don't work against.

Let's be honest.  If you are asymptomatic how would you ever know you had anything? 

I am curious, and I am asking this not to dismiss your point but for understanding it better, have more people been infected with COVID this year than are normally infected with influenza in a given year?  Or, what I am asking is that while you are saying 10 times the flu deaths is it also a 10x death rate or just quantity of deaths?

I stopped looking at statistics a long time ago.  I knew the rate was higher, but expected it to go down as more people were infected with COVID.

The CDC, National Institute of Health and a vast majority of the Medical Community still refer to it as Influenza Vaccine. 

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17 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The CDC, National Institute of Health and a vast majority of the Medical Community still refer to it as Influenza Vaccine. 

Okay, circles I don't spin in.  But, does it make sense? Not even trying to be snarky.  I think if you call something a vaccine it evokes images of absolute prevention and when it fails to prevent people will use that as claims of its being ineffective, useless, or worse.

Not a huge deal by any means, just a curious thought on using the word.

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How long has this discussion been so… reasonable and adult-like? I tuned out long ago when people were still sniping at each other.

It’s really nice to see people exchanging helpful information in good faith. ❤️ 

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3 hours ago, SDS said:

How long has this discussion been so… reasonable and adult-like? I tuned out long ago when people were still sniping at each other.

It’s really nice to see people exchanging helpful information in good faith. ❤️ 

There's hope for us yet?

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3 hours ago, SDS said:

How long has this discussion been so… reasonable and adult-like? I tuned out long ago when people were still sniping at each other.

It’s really nice to see people exchanging helpful information in good faith. ❤️ 

I can tell you the turning point.

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1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I can tell you the turning point.

When I stopped posting on SS for a month?  😛

(I doubt it since no one seemed to notice.)

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15 hours ago, LTS said:

Okay, circles I don't spin in.  But, does it make sense? Not even trying to be snarky.  I think if you call something a vaccine it evokes images of absolute prevention and when it fails to prevent people will use that as claims of its being ineffective, useless, or worse.

Not a huge deal by any means, just a curious thought on using the word.


They are called vaccines, because they are indeed vaccines based on medical journals and Merriman Webster definitions 

Vaccines are only effective when a large enough percentage of the population receives them to achieve herd immunity. If there are no more hosts to infect the disease rates of transmission drop dramatically. If not enough people get it, the disease spreads. The best example of this is the influenza vaccine, generally only 50% of the eligible population receives it, that’s why at times it appears ineffective. Studies have shown even in years that the vaccine is not as effective, the mortality and morbidity rates are lower in patients who contract influenza and have had the vaccine. 
 

The population you mentioned generally are already skeptical about vaccines. They will believe Dr Andrew Weil over Dr Anthony Fauci, they will believe Moms Against Vaccines Facebook Groups over the CDC. 
 

Absolute prevention is a flawed concept because no vaccine is 100% effective one hundred percent of the time.

Polio is the closest at 99%, however there were close to 500 cases last year worldwide. 

There have been measles outbreaks in the US recently as rates of children getting MMR Vax have declined in some populations.  Measles and Rubella have efficacy rates of over 90%, Mumps is only around 71% which has lead to outbreaks amongst a certain sports league a few years ago. 
 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Brawndo said:


They are called vaccines, because they are indeed vaccines based on medical journals and Merriman Webster definitions 

Vaccines are only effective when a large enough percentage of the population receives them to achieve herd immunity. If there are no more hosts to infect the disease rates of transmission drop dramatically. If not enough people get it, the disease spreads. The best example of this is the influenza vaccine, generally only 50% of the eligible population receives it, that’s why at times it appears ineffective. Studies have shown even in years that the vaccine is not as effective, the mortality and morbidity rates are lower in patients who contract influenza and have had the vaccine. 
 

The population you mentioned generally are already skeptical about vaccines. They will believe Dr Andrew Weil over Dr Anthony Fauci, they will believe Moms Against Vaccines Facebook Groups over the CDC. 
 

Absolute prevention is a flawed concept because no vaccine is 100% effective one hundred percent of the time.

Polio is the closest at 99%, however there were close to 500 cases last year worldwide. 

There have been measles outbreaks in the US recently as rates of children getting MMR Vax have declined in some populations.  Measles and Rubella have efficacy rates of over 90%, Mumps is only around 71% which has lead to outbreaks amongst a certain sports league a few years ago. 
 

 

 

I appreciate the response.  A few more questions..

If the purpose of a vaccine is to achieve herd immunity then wouldn't it also be possible for that to happen naturally?  What is the percentage of the population that needs to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity? It seems contradictory to say that herd immunity can be achieved naturally and yet also acknowledge that something that is still highly vaccinated against, such as MMR.  You note the effectiveness rates, so clearly mumps has a 29% chance of being ineffective, rubella and measles less than 10%.  It seems that you also point out though that outbreaks are occurring not because of an ineffective vaccine so much as those who chose to not be vaccinated.  This, of course, makes sense, but it seems to also work against the concept of herd immunity.

At least with the flu shot I can speak anecdotally. I had it twice in my life and both times I ended up with the flu (diagnosed) that year. For whatever reason I've never had it otherwise. Hard to say why, but each of us is unique. I certainly do not believe the shot caused the flu, only that it failed, twice, to prevent it.  I also didn't get the flu immediately after the shot, it was at least a month or more later.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer by any means. My kids are vaccinated.  I am just skeptical of some claims when my personal experience has indicated otherwise.

As for how people become anti-vaxxers.. I think the lunatics will believe anything.  But there is a segment of the population, with experiences like mine, who would tend to think critically about using the term vaccine for something that is acknowledged to be questionably effective (compared to MMR for example).

 

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