COVID-19

[Huckleberry]

5 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Ya think?

Not sure yet 😛

But seriously, don't get worked up over different views, even the scientists are not sure what will happen.

[Ducky]

11 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

I am, Still think people should be able to choose about this vaccine.    I don't mind vaccines like polio being mandatory, tried and tested for generations.

These ones no thx, even most people just take it because their backs are against the wall with either work or personal life.
But some of the side effects short term are scary, the long term side effects unknown.   So yeah I get why people would pass on this.

The polio vaccine was tested for about 12 months.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

10 hours ago, Ducky said:

The polio vaccine was tested for about 12 months.

I don't know this not to be true, so I will believe it.  I did take a look at the wikipedia (not always the best source) and it took about 3 years for enough testing to be done to determin that it worked.  Anyway ...

The thing is that polio is not like any other virus in that it never mutated very much at all.  Once the vaccine was developed (God bless Dr. Salk for doing all his work for the true good of humanity and never patenting his vaccine and no one made money on it) it was good for all the polio viruses and still is.  With COVID who knows how many times it has and will continue to mutate.  In the end I believe there will be not a true vaccine, like for polio, but yearly shots similar to the annual flu shots.

[Doohickie]

How does that make it "not a true vaccine"?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

How does that make it "not a true vaccine"?

In the sense that you have it and you are basically done with it once you know your anti-bodies are set.  You won't need a booster.  They are already talking about booster shots and are doing them is certain places and in certain cases already.

[Doohickie]

How does that make it not a true vaccine though?  I think your definition of vaccine is off.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

7 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

How does that make it not a true vaccine though?  I think your definition of vaccine is off.

Okay, you may be right, but do you follow what I am saying about the COVID vaccines versus the polio vaccine?  There seems to be a difference.

Maybe the difference is not with the vaccines per se, but the disease, which makes the vaccines seem different.

Edited August 19, 2021 by New Scotland (NS)

[Doohickie]

Per the CDC a vaccine is "a product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease."  To date in the U.S., 166 million people have been vaxed and of them, 0.004% have been hospitalized or have died.  While it's not a full one hundred percent, I'd say that's pretty good protection.

The reason the polio vaccine is so effective is that the virus does not mutate.  Covid does.  That doesn't mean that a vaccine designed for the original variant is not a true vaccine.  The fact that the vaccine will need to change for later variants is a property of the virus not the vaccine.

[Doohickie]

The vaccine (Moderna I believe) was designed within just  few days of getting the DNA sequencing of the virus.  The rest of the time was to scale up the production and conduct testing.  The effective bit is very precisely designed; the other parts of the vaccine are similar to vaccines for other things like the flu.

I know that some media sources have emphasized caution about "the long term effects" and what have you, but we're talking about the most advanced vaccine designs of all time coupled with very proven delivery technology.  The vague visions of long term side effects, to me, is so remote compared to the the odds of not dying a sudden and very painful death from an acute infection, that it's hard for me to imagine why anyone would hesitate to get the vaccine.

I realize that there have been a very small number of people who have died from side effects like sudden blood clots, but again, the odds of that happening are not out of line compared with other well established vaccines.

The thing that people compare Covid most readily to, the flu, is a virus that the human population has been exposed to and has some level of natural immunity.  But that immunity came at a high cost as various flus killed millions of people in the past.  Covid is several times more lethal than the flu, and science is still coming to understand the mechanisms that make it so.  Science has, however, produced several vaccines that are highly effective.  If everyone who was able, was vaccinated, we really could eradicate this virus, but with the hesitancy some people are experiencing, it becomes a moving target since this virus mutates.

That I think is why so many people get frustrated with anit-vaxers and people who are waiting to get the shot for what they feel are legitimate concerns.  When the pandemic first started I heard someone posit that even with a highly effective vaccine, it may take a decade to eradicate the virus.  Now I understand why.  It's not the vaccine, it's not the fact that the virus mutates, it's really due to voluntary refusal to get the vaccine delaying the onset of herd immunity.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The scariest part for me is the fact that the Pfiser and Moderna vaccines are mRNA.  They are messing with the cell structure of every cell in the body.  Traditional vaccines did not do that.

In reality these are not building anti-bodies to COVID they are turning every cell in your body into a war machine by way of manipulating the cell structure of EVERY cell in your body.  To me that is kind of scary and evil scientist in nature.  A big experiment.  And people laugh when it's suggested that COVID was created and leaked out of a lab.

Anyway, I do not want to get too far down a rabbit hole here.  I have work to do ...

[eanyills]

24 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I know that some media sources have emphasized caution about "the long term effects" and what have you, but we're talking about the most advanced vaccine designs of all time coupled with very proven delivery technology.  The vague visions of long term side effects, to me, is so remote compared to the the odds of not dying a sudden and very painful death from an acute infection, that it's hard for me to imagine why anyone would hesitate to get the vaccine.

I can’t believe I’m jumping into a COVID discussion but I feel like I’m on both sides of this argument. I started to develop (what’s currently diagnosed as in lieu of more testing) peripheral neuropathy approximately four hours after getting my first COVID shot. It’s gotten progressively more severe since then to the point of being almost completely physically debilitating at times. Now, there are reported cases of an extremely rare side effect that’s resulted in Guillain-Barre, which coincidentally, has similar symptoms as Peripheral Neuropathy. Maybe it’s just a coincidence, maybe it is unrelated, but you know, unless it can be proven to me that the COVID vaccine was not the cause of my  current neurological condition, I went from never thinking twice about getting any vaccination to extremely anti-vaxxx in the blink of an eye.

And when my three kids grow up, none of whom will be getting a COVID vaccine any time soon, they’ll think of my experience and I think that’s a legitimate pause for concern when it comes to this particular vaccine. You shouldn’t discount people’s personal experiences.

Edited August 19, 2021 by eanyills

[freester]

43 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Per the CDC a vaccine is "a product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease."  To date in the U.S., 166 million people have been vaxed and of them, 0.004% have been hospitalized or have died.  While it's not a full one hundred percent, I'd say that's pretty good protection.

The reason the polio vaccine is so effective is that the virus does not mutate.  Covid does.  That doesn't mean that a vaccine designed for the original variant is not a true vaccine.  The fact that the vaccine will need to change for later variants is a property of the virus not the vaccine.

All data quoted from the alpha variant is irrelevant at this time. The vaccines are much less effective against the delta variant. Only data from the past 3 weeks is relevant. In Israel which is among the most highly vaccinated countries most elderly are already getting the booster. 

[PASabreFan]

It has been decided that all U.S. nursing home staff must be vaccinated or those homes will lose their federal funding. Passive voice — I can't say who decided that.

[SwampD]

20 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

The scariest part for me is the fact that the Pfiser and Moderna vaccines are mRNA.  They are messing with the cell structure of every cell in the body.  Traditional vaccines did not do that.

In reality these are not building anti-bodies to COVID they are turning every cell in your body into a war machine by way of manipulating the cell structure of EVERY cell in your body.  To me that is kind of scary and evil scientist in nature.  A big experiment.  And people laugh when it's suggested that COVID was created and leaked out of a lab.

Anyway, I do not want to get too far down a rabbit hole here.  I have work to do ...

This is absolutely false and the reason we get frustrated with antivaxxers.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

15 minutes ago, SwampD said:

This is absolutely false and the reason we get frustrated with antivaxxers.

Wrong.  

And I am not an anti-vaxxer.

[SwampD]

Just now, New Scotland (NS) said:

Wrong.  

And I am not an anti-vaxxer.

It does not ‘mess with the cell structure.’

[Sabres Fan in NS]

35 minutes ago, eanyills said:

I can’t believe I’m jumping into a COVID discussion but I feel like I’m on both sides of this argument. I started to develop (what’s currently diagnosed as in lieu of more testing) peripheral neuropathy approximately four hours after getting my first COVID shot. It’s gotten progressively more severe since then to the point of being almost completely physically debilitating at times. Now, there are reported cases of an extremely rare side effect that’s resulted in Guillain-Barre, which coincidentally, has similar symptoms as Peripheral Neuropathy. Maybe it’s just a coincidence, maybe it is unrelated, but you know, unless it can be proven to me that the COVID vaccine was not the cause of my  current neurological condition, I went from never thinking twice about getting any vaccination to extremely anti-vaxxx in the blink of an eye.

And when my three kids grow up, none of whom will be getting a COVID vaccine any time soon, they’ll think of my experience and I think that’s a legitimate pause for concern when it comes to this particular vaccine. You shouldn’t discount people’s personal experiences.

Sorry for your troubles.  You are not alone.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

It does not ‘mess with the cell structure.’

Use whatever word you want then.

The vaccine does not work in the same way as traditional vaccines in the it targets every cell in your body to have it do something that they ordinarily don't do.

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Use whatever word you want then.

The vaccine does not work in the same way as traditional vaccines in the it targets every cell in your body to have it do something that they ordinarily don't do.

Again, false.

Your body fights off invaders all the time. The vaccine uses a sequence of the rna(dna) of the virus to fool your immune response to fight it off.

If you got a gene sequence of your dna before and the again after you received the vaccine, they would be identical. The notion is ridiculous.

[JujuFish]

11 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Use whatever word you want then.

The vaccine does not work in the same way as traditional vaccines in the it targets every cell in your body to have it do something that they ordinarily don't do.

The mRNA vaccines cause dendritic cells in the immune system to create viral antigens, which then activate the body's normal immune system.  They don't target every cell in your body, nor do they have those cells do things they ordinarily don't do.

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

The scariest part for me is the fact that the Pfiser and Moderna vaccines are mRNA.  They are messing with the cell structure of every cell in the body. 

This is completely untrue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/victoriaforster/2021/01/11/covid-19-vaccines-cant-alter-your-dna-heres-why/?sh=5cb749082491

[Doohickie]

33 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Use whatever word you want then.

The vaccine does not work in the same way as traditional vaccines in the it targets every cell in your body to have it do something that they ordinarily don't do.

Nope.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Sorry, guys, I'm still on the fence.

Nothing against you guys or anyone else.  Just being careful and waiting a bit longer.  I am in a situation and position in my life that I do not feel that is have to rush into something.  The vaccine is readily available here in NS and if I call today I can have the vaccine tomorrow and then again in a month, or so.

I am generally pro-vaccine, but am being cautious.  I am at a point in my life that I do not need to go out and do stuff like I used to.  I don't even want to.  The risk of me getting COVID are small.  The chance of me transmitting it to anyone are even smaller.  

For me it's a risk / benefit analysis like anything else in life.  Right now the risk of COVID is less than the benefit of the vaccine for me.  That could change tomorrow, or the next day.

[Weave]

15 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Sorry, guys, I'm still on the fence.

Nothing against you guys or anyone else.  Just being careful and waiting a bit longer.  I am in a situation and position in my life that I do not feel that is have to rush into something.  The vaccine is readily available here in NS and if I call today I can have the vaccine tomorrow and then again in a month, or so.

I am generally pro-vaccine, but am being cautious.  I am at a point in my life that I do not need to go out and do stuff like I used to.  I don't even want to.  The risk of me getting COVID are small.  The chance of me transmitting it to anyone are even smaller.  

For me it's a risk / benefit analysis like anything else in life.  Right now the risk of COVID is less than the benefit of the vaccine for me.  That could change tomorrow, or the next day.

That is all perfectly understandable, except everything you have conveyed here suggests that you are perfroming your risk/benefit judgement using demonstrably false information, and choosing to not recalculate when more accurate information is being provided.

[Wyldnwoody44]

Hold strong @New Scotland (NS) no one can make you get poked (at least not yet anyways) 

You aren't some idiot Twitter-head who doesn't want it because they're BS vegan and they think there's bacon in the shot. You have rational and reasonable objections, and those shouldn't be discounted by all the other lay-persons on the planet. 

Seems we have quite a few virologists, microbiologists and epidemiologists here on SS