COVID-19

[chileanseabass]

7 minutes ago, Curt said:

Where are there actual gas shortages?  Have you seen any gas stations with sold out signs?  I haven’t.  Heard a couple people at work mention this today but that was the first I’d heard about it.

I live in a relatively rural area about 40 minutes from Charlotte.  As of last night we had zero gas stations with gas.  Late this afternoon one of them received a shipment.  Over 70% of Charlotte's gas stations were out.  It was 100% caused by panic buying morons.

[Andrew Amerk]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I wonder if the circles of “Men should be free to not to wear masks if they chose” and “Men should be free to use women’s washrooms if they choose” ever overlap.

These circles refer to them as “face diapers,” not masks. 

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

These circles refer to them as “face diapers,” not masks. 

IMO we can appeal to common sense without mocking the rhetoric of idiots, but you may feel differently.

I tend to ignore coal rollers for the same reason.

[Scottysabres]

Had my U/S yesterday on my lower left ab area. Sign of an old wound, some inner muscle scar tissue, that may have rubbed the wrong way, hence the pain. It should subside they said.

Sadly, the U/S caught a small fat deposit on my liver, drop 30lbs was the conversation there.

Not a bad day and still covid free.

[Andrew Amerk]

3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

IMO we can appeal to common sense without mocking the rhetoric of idiots, but you may feel differently.

I tend to ignore coal rollers for the same reason.

The irony of the term common sense, is that it isn’t that common. 

[Curt]

5 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Hey man, I'm just going to address the gas and chip things, neither of which have that much to do with COVID.

The gas thing is real; I have employees in the mid- and south-Atlantic regions who are out.  Panic buying.  Not COVID-related.

The chip thing, I think, has a lot more to to with crypto-mining than it does with COVID.

 

@SDS

 

2 minutes ago, chileanseabass said:

I live in a relatively rural area about 40 minutes from Charlotte.  As of last night we had zero gas stations with gas.  Late this afternoon one of them received a shipment.  Over 70% of Charlotte's gas stations were out.  It was 100% caused by panic buying morons.

Thanks guys.  I live in a bubble, confirmed.

That sucks.  Seems like it won’t last long.

[rickshaw]

I think vaccines are awesome. I roll up my sleeve yearly for the flu vaccine and I did for Covid for sure. 
As for masks, nobody really enjoys them but to me it’s no big deal. You see I work in the public and people are disgusting. So I like that they’re being worn. Where I live, Kelowna BC, masks are still mandated but it will end one day. Until then, I wear mine and do it knowing they probably don’t offer much protection but they offer some. And if it can keep them vulnerable people I’m happy to do it. 

But here’s some food for thought. The flu vaccine is based on what happens in Australia as they get it first. This year, the flu in Canada had a reported total of 66 people getting it. 66! Normally it’s 30000-40000 annually. Australia handled Covid extremely well and masks were worn too. Is it a coincidence that the flu was so low?  No. People were distanced, masks were worn and people finally stopped being soooo disgusting and started cleaning their hands. Shopping carts cleaned regularly etc. These all play a part. 
To me, these factors show that all theses measures help stop the spread.

And going forward. I’m totally gonna mask up when I’m inside a shopping mall or store when the winter comes along. I didn’t get sick at all in over a year. I think the measures taken surely helped with that. Asians have been doing it forever. I believe it’s just common courtesy to mask up of YOU are out and not feeling well. I can’t tell you how many sick people would come into my work and say, “I’m so sick” yet buying some beer was so important to put me in danger of catching your illness. 
 

I can’t wait until this is all over but I do hope people will consider their habits going forward when feeling unwell. A bit of a ramble I know. But I just really want people to think of others. Here’s a good point to make the radicals think

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Where are there actual gas shortages?

The Atlantic/Southern states.  I don't think WNY was affected by supply.

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

The chip thing, I think, has a lot more to to with crypto-mining than it does with COVID.

The auto industry thought Covid would kill sales so they cut back on their orders.  That rippled through the industry and production lines were shut down.  It turns out they were wrong and it resulted in a pinch in the supply worldwide.  It absolutely was a result of Covid.

[Curt]

10 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

The Atlantic/Southern states.  I don't think WNY was affected by supply.

Eastern NY either apparently.

[Doohickie]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

Eastern NY either apparently.

I think it's basically from Virginia south.

[I-90 W]

Not to trivialize this conversation but one great thing about wearing masks is that it has enabled me grow a mustache with virtual anonymity. That counts for something. 

[Eleven]

7 hours ago, Doohickie said:

The auto industry thought Covid would kill sales so they cut back on their orders.  That rippled through the industry and production lines were shut down.  It turns out they were wrong and it resulted in a pinch in the supply worldwide.  It absolutely was a result of Covid.

Good to know; thanks!

[#freejame]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

I wonder if the circles of “Men should be free to not to wear masks if they chose” and “Men should be free to use women’s washrooms if they choose” ever overlap.

They do extensively. That would change if you said trans-women using women’s bathrooms. 

9 hours ago, Curt said:

 

Thanks guys.  I live in a bubble, confirmed.

That sucks.  Seems like it won’t last long.

It was projected to occur this summer starting around Memorial Day due to driver shortages anyway. There might be a temporary improvement, but expect a long summer on the gas front. Most the the current shortages aren't even shortages at storage sites. It’s an inability to transport fuel via truck to gas stations. The trucking industry has been a mess for a while now. 

[#freejame]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

The auto industry thought Covid would kill sales so they cut back on their orders.  That rippled through the industry and production lines were shut down.  It turns out they were wrong and it resulted in a pinch in the supply worldwide.  It absolutely was a result of Covid.

There has also been massive issues at terminals and ports throughout the country causing delays in transit times. You wouldn’t believe the amount of auto parts flying in from overseas because they can’t get in via ocean.

[fiftyone]

11 hours ago, Eleven said:

This is really freaking simple.

1.  If you are a healthy adult/near adult over 16, get vaccinated.  (Not sure on the 12+ situation yet but that's looking pretty good, too.)

1a.  If you are in the EXTREMELY SMALL subset of people who have religious objections to vaccinations--and I mean EXTREMELY SMALL like even Christian Scientists say it's ok--just isolate.  You've probably pretty much done that already anyway.

2.  If you are unable to vaccinate for medical reasons, you probably have a lot of other stuff going on, and we'll pray for you, and please remain at home and be safe.

3.  If you don't think the vaccine is effective or safe, look toward the billions of people across the globe who have received it, and the effective rate.  Don't be deliberately simple, even if you're an NFL quarterback or receiver. If that doesn't convince you, look at the billions of people who are scared to death because they CAN'T GET IT. Stop being spoiled. Get the vaccine.

4.  If you're just an anti-vaxxer, please, please go live on an island somewhere.  We live in a society.  We make sacrifices for society all the time.  We agree with those sacrifices sometimes and we don't sometimes, but we do it because we live in a society.  We have speed limits.  Driver licenses.  Smoking laws.  Regulations on where you can have a beer.  Regulations on where you can shoot a gun.  Shut up and take your shot or go away.

 

Simple.

Again, devil's advocate. I've been vaccinated but can certainly see the other side of the coin.

Do you not think the rigorous and extensive process for developing and testing a vaccine under normal circumstances is necessary and important?

I don't think many people who are concerned are specifically worried about short-term issues with the vaccine - there's been enough shots given to know that there are very few issues within a few months. But from my understanding, the development process including clinical trials for a non-emergency use vaccine can last 10+ years. Combined with the fact that this was not done here and the fact that the technology used in the Pfizer/Moderna is new and relatively untested, and you can certainly see why some would be hesitant of the unknown well down the line.

I think for some people it's the emegency use of a relatively untested vaccine technology that is concerning - not always the thickheadedness. 

[That Aud Smell]

27 minutes ago, fiftyone said:

Do you not think the rigorous and extensive process for developing and testing a vaccine under normal circumstances is necessary and important?

I think for some people it's the emegency use of a relatively untested vaccine technology that is concerning - not always the thickheadedness. 

There's almost certainly some individual risk involved in this vaccination program. It is certain to be a very, very low risk - essentially infinitesimal for a given individual. There are much larger risks to individuals and societies if we don't get a super majority of people vax'd asap.

Like I said upthread: This is a war. Billions of volunteers are needed in order to win it. And if people won't volunteer -- well, I don't imagine there would be actual conscriptions (at least in the western world) --but I am confident that many carrot-stick incentives will be created that will make it difficult to continue to avoid (up to an including substantial cash payments ($100? $250?)) and many, many barriers to entry will be created in order to make vax avoidance a huge problem for people (no live sporting events, no concerts, no on-campus college). 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by That Aud Smell

[fiftyone]

9 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

There's almost certainly some individual risk involved in this vaccination program. It is certain to be a very, very low risk - essentially infinitesimal for a given individual. There are much larger risks to individuals and societies if we don't get a super majority of people vax'd asap.

Like I said upthread: This is a war. Billions of volunteers are needed in order to win it. And if people won't volunteer -- well, I don't imagine there would be actual conscriptions (at least in the western world) --but I am confident that many carrot-stick incentives will be created that will make it difficult to continue to avoid (up to an including substantial cash payments ($100? $250?)) and many, many barriers to entry will be created in order to make vax avoidance a huge problem for people (no live sporting events, no concerts, no on-campus college). 

 

Understood. Though to this point, i'm not sure how you can be so sure. Isn't that the point of the (bypassed) rigorous development process of a normal vaccine? I agree that it's likely to be a very small chance, but i'm not sure how we can state it so strongly while not testing.

 

[That Aud Smell]

Just now, fiftyone said:

Understood. Though to this point, i'm not sure how you can be so sure. Isn't that the point of the (bypassed) rigorous development process of a normal vaccine? I agree that it's likely to be a very small chance, but i'm not sure how we can state it so strongly while not testing.

That concern is a bogeyman.

The mRNA vaccines being used stand on the shoulders of, proceed from incredible scientific advances that date back at least as early as the 1980s (when scientists tried and failed to come up with a vaccine for HIV (by using mRNA concepts)). Both our federal government (maybe other centralized governments (idk)) and private industry devoted unparalleled resources to developing these vaccines -- and proving they are safe (shoutout to the 10s of 1000s of people who volunteered for those trials) -- in what has become an unprecedented accomplishment in modern human history. It's breathtaking.

[fiftyone]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

That concern is a bogeyman.

The mRNA vaccines being used stand on the shoulders of, proceed from incredible scientific advances that date back at least as early as the 1980s (when scientists tried and failed to come up with a vaccine for HIV (by using mRNA concepts)). Both our federal government (maybe other centralized governments (idk)) and private industry devoted unparalleled resources to developing these vaccines -- and proving they are safe (shoutout to the 10s of 1000s of people who volunteered for those trials) -- in what has become an unprecedented accomplishment in modern human history. It's breathtaking.

Again - agreed. But safe as a result of these trials = safe in the short term, yes? No data available for long-term?

I don't know the answer to this, but I'd assume that given the fact that the normal testing and development process can last 10+ years, a good number of potential vaccines or medicines do fail because of these longer-term issues. Why else would the standard process be that extensive?

And to the first part - I have read some of the same. To my understanding (limited and hard to find information), the technology was seen as potentially groundbreaking and beneficial for future use, though still relatively untested in comparison to commercially available medicine. 

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, fiftyone said:

Do you not think the rigorous and extensive process for developing and testing a vaccine under normal circumstances is necessary and important?

If I'm about to die of thirst, I don't care how the water tastes.  This is an emergency.  I'm sure that the world will continue to work on it.  

[LGR4GM]

23 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

That concern is a bogeyman.

The mRNA vaccines being used stand on the shoulders of, proceed from incredible scientific advances that date back at least as early as the 1980s (when scientists tried and failed to come up with a vaccine for HIV (by using mRNA concepts)). Both our federal government (maybe other centralized governments (idk)) and private industry devoted unparalleled resources to developing these vaccines -- and proving they are safe (shoutout to the 10s of 1000s of people who volunteered for those trials) -- in what has become an unprecedented accomplishment in modern human history. It's breathtaking.

Covid mRNA has been in development since SARS Covi2 in 2003 I believe. 

[That Aud Smell]

9 minutes ago, fiftyone said:

No data available for long-term?

@Eleven's point is well taken. We just don't have the luxury of time.

And again, the risks associated with the known disease itself - both to individuals and to societies more generally - are known and, with scientific certainty, far worse than any risks associated with the vaccines.

In addition to which: The history of vaccines teaches that side effects, including severe adverse reactions, are seen in the near-term. The long-term risk issue is, once again, a bogeyman for the vax-skeptical, vax-resistant, and anti-vax crowds. To the extent they can be reached, those folks are just gonna need to be persuaded.

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Covid mRNA has been in development since SARS Covi2 in 2003 I believe. 

[fiftyone]

18 minutes ago, Eleven said:

If I'm about to die of thirst, I don't care how the water tastes.  This is an emergency.  I'm sure that the world will continue to work on it.  

That's certainly true for some portion of the population. For a good portion of it though, you're a little thirsty but have no chance of dying of thirst.

If you're in that population, you may care a little more how the water tastes. Especially when those dying of thirst have the safety of the bad tasting water.

8 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

@Eleven's point is well taken. We just don't have the luxury of time.

And again, the risks associated with the known disease itself - both to individuals and to societies more generally - are known and, with scientific certainty, far worse than any risks associated with the vaccines.

In addition to which: The history of vaccines teaches that side effects, including severe adverse reactions, are seen in the near-term. The long-term risk issue is, once again, a bogeyman for the vax-skeptical, vax-resistant, and anti-vax crowds. To the extent they can be reached, those folks are just gonna need to be persuaded.

Interesting. Something I haven't seen written anywhere. I'll have to see if I can find more on that. 

[Eleven]

38 minutes ago, fiftyone said:

That's certainly true for some portion of the population. For a good portion of it though, you're a little thirsty but have no chance of dying of thirst.

If you're in that population, you may care a little more how the water tastes. Especially when those dying of thirst have the safety of the bad tasting water.

No analogy is perfect, and you have exposed the imperfection in mine:  thirst is not transmittable the way disease is.  Ok.  Still, it's an emergency.  Let's just do what we can for now, which is taking one of the numerous vaccines that have been developed, and work on getting even better later.  Perfect should not get in the way of good.