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The logistics problems will be with us for several months once a vaccine is released. That is a given.

There are vaccines in development that do not require ultra deep hypothermic storage. Those are going to take some time to clear FDA approval. Inovio is attempting an unrefrigerated version and got pinched by the FDA over their delivery device, not the vaccine. Just another hurdle for the developers to deal with. 

The big question now seems to be durability. If you do receive a vaccine, how many days/weeks/months of functional antibody protection will it provide? There is no answer to this question as of today, and there can be no answer until the testing of the  original cohort starts to provide that information. 

Stay vigilant and be smart. That's the best you can do right now.

 

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On 11/10/2020 at 8:37 AM, I-90 W said:

You say that you are okay with the government imposing $50,000 dollar fines on people for not wearing masks and then in the same breath whine about bars being shut down at midnight, the inconsistency is mind boggling. But that’s the thing about cheering on heavy handed executive orders; only a matter of time til it inconveniences YOU.

Yes it is amusing that your line in the sand is an early last call. 

First.. I used a smaller amount out of the gate, but the point is.. make the fine significant enough to encourage people to adhere.  Wearing a mask does not convenience me. I hate wearing masks and would choose to do so if I knew I wasn't putting others at risk.  My point is that shutting bars down will not have the same level of impact as actually enforcing masks.  I'm not about government intervention at all, but I think we can agree that without some in this case we'll be in a true ****show.

On 11/10/2020 at 8:45 AM, SwampD said:

Nothing degrades quality of life like death.

Closing bars early limits exposure. Have you ever seen people in a bar from 12 to 2? It looks much different than from 10 to 12.

And yes, the eating thing was stupid.

Yes.. I have seen bars from 5-7 when people get out of work.  People who want to drink will.  Home parties and private gatherings are the worst culprit.  It's not that reducing hours won't help, but there's this concept that it will make a significant difference.. and it simply won't.

On 11/10/2020 at 8:51 AM, Eleven said:

I'd rather have one idiot who refuses to wear a mask be punished by being fined $50K than have the entire society suffer by having another shutdown---and it's not just bars and restaurants, either.

This is where it's at.

On 11/10/2020 at 9:02 AM, I-90 W said:

But what if someone simply forgets to put one on by accident? I have gotten out of my car, walked up to the front entrance of a store, and then quickly realized I forgot.

What if on my return back to the vehicle to retrieve my mask a LEO sees me; I shouldn’t be financially crushed and my family suffer immensely for that. This is what I take issue with. We either care about our fellow man or we do not.

And before anyone objects that my scenario is an exuberant one; not wearing a mask would be a strict liability offense. “I forgot” would not remove oneself of culpability unless specifically written in the language of the law or executive order.  

The world is full of what ifs.. its why lawyers continue to make a great living.  There's a reasonable amount of a fine that can be levied.  The point is.. I was in a hotel in PA where signs said "Masks must be worn at all times by PA state mandate".  Yet, there were hundreds of people in the lobby (a religious convention we were told) where none of them were wearing masks and when we asked the hotel to enforce it, they said they couldn't.  State mandate?  Guess not. 

 

On 11/10/2020 at 9:38 AM, I-90 W said:

FWIW my wife and father in law are both immunocompromised and people who refuse to wear masks are are the worst IMO.

As I have written before, everyone has their own acceptable level of risk.  What is your acceptable level of risk?  Even with mask wearing there is still a fairly significant risk of being exposed and carrying the virus around. Being immunocompromised sucks (as you well know) but if I were in close contact (or was immunocompromised myself) that I would barely venture out into public at all. I'd get groceries delivered and so on.

That said, given your situation, are you going to a bar at 4pm?  Do you go to a restaurant?  My parents won't sit down in a restaurant to eat because that's below their acceptable level of risk.  They don't need a ruling from the government for that.. they just do it.

Which is what my whole point is... we want people to practice safe habits but rather than enact rules that enforce that we enact rules that punish everyone and for minimal gain. The focus is in the wrong spot.

 

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21 hours ago, JohnC said:

As this link demonstrates the rural areas are getting hit hard. And they have the least medical resources to deal with this plague. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/why-north-and-south-dakota-are-suffering-the-worst-covid-19-epidemics-in-the-us/ar-BB1arLSq

 

Oh wow. That's different than here in Canada. Looks like in the U.S. rural areas they ignored lockdowns or were slow to implement them, don't wear masks, etc. and so per capita it's a bigger problem. Science and news rejection. We have some of that here and Manitoba now has the highest per capita rate but overall here rural areas like the north have lower rates. 

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I see lock down a-comin'

It's rollin' round the bend

And I ain't hugged my family

Since I don't know when

I'm stuck in my apartment

Pandemic's draggin' on

 

But folks keep throwin' parties

Pretending nothing's wrong

 

Hope you're all keeping well.

Having our first lockdown of the studio due to a positive case. Person was posting a billion pics out partying on halloween...sans mask. 

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21 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Oh wow. That's different than here in Canada. Looks like in the U.S. rural areas they ignored lockdowns or were slow to implement them, don't wear masks, etc. and so per capita it's a bigger problem. Science and news rejection. We have some of that here and Manitoba now has the highest per capita rate but overall here rural areas like the north have lower rates. 

Probably because they didn't have a quarter-million-person maskless motorcycle rally in Manitoba.

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On 11/11/2020 at 12:50 PM, irregularly irregular said:

The logistics problems will be with us for several months once a vaccine is released. That is a given.

There are vaccines in development that do not require ultra deep hypothermic storage. Those are going to take some time to clear FDA approval. Inovio is attempting an unrefrigerated version and got pinched by the FDA over their delivery device, not the vaccine. Just another hurdle for the developers to deal with. 

The big question now seems to be durability. If you do receive a vaccine, how many days/weeks/months of functional antibody protection will it provide? There is no answer to this question as of today, and there can be no answer until the testing of the  original cohort starts to provide that information. 

Stay vigilant and be smart. That's the best you can do right now.

 

This is one of the best posts in this thread. 

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On 11/13/2020 at 2:35 PM, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Probably, this isn't going anywhere it's a new virus that we'll deal with, no biggie there.... Just getting over the hump now. 

I often wonder how many anti-anti-vaxxers are too cool to get the flu shot, and won’t get this one, either.
 

 

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25 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Will you?

To keep my job I will have to. If it wasn't forced on me, I still probably would though. I have been getting the flu shot yearly and when I'm of age I'll get the pneumonia vaccines. I do believe in vaccinations, especially seeing how the 3rd world is doing every year. 

I just want people to know the limitations of vaccinations is all. I hear so much that this is going to solve the issue and that just simply isn't the case. 

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Forgive my non-medical take but I just read an article talking about the side effects of taking one of the present vaccines. Apparently you feel like crap for days after the first dose. That will go over well.

Then I read an article talking about how Ticketmaster is working on software where they will require proof of vaccine to purchase through them. They later issued a statement saying that they won’t require but some of the venues will. That will go over well as well.

For the record, I am of the opinion that a big problem with people taking it seriously is the leadership on both sides. One side is just completely clueless, the other side makes up numbers as they go, relying on mathematical models and graphs they don’t understand. 
My three year old niece could put together a better power point presentation then the ones that our local Executive puts up every day. Regularly the numbers don’t add up, are poorly labeled or are adjusted to accentuate the narrative of the day.

Finally, just watched a documentary of the Spanish Flu. Assuming it was accurate, the similarities are quite jarring. That one seemed to end quietly. Hopefully we are headed in the same direction.

Thanks for reading. Just wanted to vent.

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1 hour ago, tom webster said:

Forgive my non-medical take but I just read an article talking about the side effects of taking one of the present vaccines. Apparently you feel like crap for days after the first dose. That will go over well.

Then I read an article talking about how Ticketmaster is working on software where they will require proof of vaccine to purchase through them. They later issued a statement saying that they won’t require but some of the venues will. That will go over well as well.

For the record, I am of the opinion that a big problem with people taking it seriously is the leadership on both sides. One side is just completely clueless, the other side makes up numbers as they go, relying on mathematical models and graphs they don’t understand. 
My three year old niece could put together a better power point presentation then the ones that our local Executive puts up every day. Regularly the numbers don’t add up, are poorly labeled or are adjusted to accentuate the narrative of the day.

Finally, just watched a documentary of the Spanish Flu. Assuming it was accurate, the similarities are quite jarring. That one seemed to end quietly. Hopefully we are headed in the same direction.

Thanks for reading. Just wanted to vent.

The feeling like crap is a normal body response to most vaccines, I particularly get this prodrome of symptoms with most influenza shots each year. 

The rest is definitley concerning, we had a small discussion up thread about this, many employers/schools/etc may be able to not allow you to work or attend without getting one. This country is ripped in half and I don't see how this is going to go over well. 

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13 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

The feeling like crap is a normal body response to most vaccines, I particularly get this prodrome of symptoms with most influenza shots each year. 

The rest is definitley concerning, we had a small discussion up thread about this, many employers/schools/etc may be able to not allow you to work or attend without getting one. This country is ripped in half and I don't see how this is going to go over well. 

It's already ripped in half. 

I'll get the vaccine because I think it is the safest path forward but it won't be until summer impo that they might be available. Should be fun to watch sports get them first though while first responders and teachers die.

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